We're Doomed

Raceday Attendances

54 posts in this topic

According to newspaper reports approx 5,000 people attended each of the Kurow and Timaru meetings, and 1,000 at Wingatui on Boxing Day.  If anyone has been to those meetings do those figures sound accurate? If they are accurate the theories about which tracks should be closed don't sound very logical 

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6 minutes ago, Trump said:

I’m not sure what the answer is but I don’t think proposed track closures was related to “crowd attendance”. So really, don’t understand why you would post such a comment. 

I wasn't aware of that, so thank you for clarifying it. It does make the whole restructuring of racing much easier if attendances aren't relevant.

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37 minutes ago, We're Doomed said:

I wasn't aware of that, so thank you for clarifying it. It does make the whole restructuring of racing much easier if attendances aren't relevant.

If it was related, then You’d have to close “most” tracks. First priority is to get the betting situation sorted. That’s the source of the funding. Playing favourites with tracks won’t work. Imagine if Bulls, Foxton, Feilding, Levin, Ashhurst tracks we’re still being used? Awapuni, Otaki And Wanganui can handle that area. The crowd issue is not going to be a factor in proposed track closures. There’ll never be a consensus on track closures because there’s always going to be losers. If NZ wants to keep its tracks that have one or two meetings a year then the only way to have this is to eliminate waste (the $ kind of waste) and grow the revenue side. You can only do this thru betting. Personally, I’ve never liked the idea of charging people to go on to a racecourse. Casino? Pokies, TAB etc don’t charge so why the races? Can you Imagine being charged $10 or more to sit down in a restaurant? Doesn’t make sense. Save gate staff costs, ticket checking mafia, printing etc. The punters will spend it on food n bev and betting anyway. Unrelated, I once closed 9 businesses down in order make the remaining 14 stronger. They thrived. A hard decision but a necessary one for the growth of the remaining 14. Think about it.

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46 minutes ago, We're Doomed said:

I wasn't aware of that, so thank you for clarifying it. It does make the whole restructuring of racing much easier if attendances aren't relevant.

Restructuring of racing in NZ is a huge job that will involve a lot of hard decisions. Doing nothing is not an option if racing is to survive. Having $10k maidens is not good. NZ will end up a breeding ground for Australia. The grass is better and already you have The Oaks Stud and Westbury Stud owned by Australians. Track Closures are not related to attendance and is also not the answer to NZ’s Racing woes. It has the horses, the horse people, the soil, temperate climate and more than 50 race tracks scattered across the country. So what’s missing? :) 

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3 minutes ago, Trump said:

If NZ wants to keep its tracks that have one or two meetings a year then the only way is to have this is to eliminate waste (the $ kind of waste) and grow the revenue side. You can only do this thru betting.

Perhaps you understand something that I don't Trump. Please explain. Where is the $ waste in these tracks when the industry is providing no funding other than for stakes and raceday costs. Most of them are otherwise community supported aren't they? They also get people to the races that would not otherwise go. There were some interesting figures published some years ago following the closure of the Nelson track There was a clear correlation between the closure and a following decline in off track betting in that region. That doesn't seem like a helpful strategy to me if there are no cost savings and a loss of betting revenue. No-one seems to be able to produce any figures supporting the idea that there will be any improvement in net revenue to the industry from this.

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10 minutes ago, Trump said:

Restructuring of racing in NZ is a huge job that will involve a lot of hard decisions. Doing nothing is not an option if racing is to survive. Having $10k maidens is not good. NZ will end up a breeding ground for Australia. The grass is better and already you have The Oaks Stud and Westbury Stud owned by Australians. Track Closures are not related to attendance and is also not the answer to NZ’s Racing woes. It has the horses, the horse people, the soil, temperate climate and more than 50 race tracks scattered across the country. So what’s missing? :) 

Betting revenue and profit margins on that? That won't largely change whether there are 30 or 60 tracks operating. You mentioned the closures of Ashurst, Levin, Foxton, Bulls, Feilding and you can add Marton to that. Where is the benefit to the industry or the clubs and communities concerned? That's one of the worst examples if you look at the financial status of RACE and the closed track clubs that are or were a part of that. Foxton may be an exception sustaining a viable operation without a raceday. It would probably be less viable with one.

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3 minutes ago, Leggy said:

Betting revenue and profit margins on that? That won't largely change whether there are 30 or 60 tracks operating. You mentioned the closures of Ashurst, Levin, Foxton, Bulls, Feilding and you can add Marton to that. Where is the benefit to the industry or the clubs and communities concerned? That's one of the worst examples if you look at the financial status of RACE and the closed track clubs that are or were a part of that. Foxton may be an exception sustaining a viable operation without a raceday. It would probably be less viable with one.

I think that supports what I’m trying to say. All those closures haven’t strengthened racing in NZ or that area except that they wouldn’t have enough horses to race on all those tracks today anyway! The focus has to be on growing the revenue available for investment in the Industry, including Stakes, infrastructure, animal welfare, etc. 

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1 hour ago, Trump said:

If it was related, then You’d have to close “most” tracks. First priority is to get the betting situation sorted. That’s the source of the funding. Playing favourites with tracks won’t work. Imagine if Bulls, Foxton, Feilding, Levin, Ashhurst tracks we’re still being used? Awapuni, Otaki And Wanganui can handle that area. The crowd issue is not going to be a factor in proposed track closures. There’ll never be a consensus on track closures because there’s always going to be losers. If NZ wants to keep its tracks that have one or two meetings a year then the only way to have this is to eliminate waste (the $ kind of waste) and grow the revenue side. You can only do this thru betting. Personally, I’ve never liked the idea of charging people to go on to a racecourse. Casino? Pokies, TAB etc don’t charge so why the races? Can you Imagine being charged $10 or more to sit down in a restaurant? Doesn’t make sense. Save gate staff costs, ticket checking mafia, printing etc. The punters will spend it on food n bev and betting anyway. Unrelated, I once closed 9 businesses down in order make the remaining 14 stronger. They thrived. A hard decision but a necessary one for the growth of the remaining 14. Think about it.

Hi trump fully agree it should be free entry  ,but a couple of comparisons .Ellerslie $10 entry on line , to see $1,100000 in stakes races and then on thursday we go to Tauherenikau rases $20 entry watching $83000 in total how they get away with it is mind bogeling they say its a family day and we are a poor club "really"  Great picnic meeting but same old food stalls ,not enough tote windows open etc.  Just a bit off track but after Ellerslie pulled the old stand down ,well they had to burn it down because it wouldn"t come down ,and they had the brilliant garden bar behind the old tote , yep they bulldozed that .the crowds never returned ,so sad ,Cheers BH

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46 minutes ago, Leggy said:

Betting revenue and profit margins on that? That won't largely change whether there are 30 or 60 tracks operating. You mentioned the closures of Ashurst, Levin, Foxton, Bulls, Feilding and you can add Marton to that. Where is the benefit to the industry or the clubs and communities concerned? That's one of the worst examples if you look at the financial status of RACE and the closed track clubs that are or were a part of that. Foxton may be an exception sustaining a viable operation without a raceday. It would probably be less viable with one.

You can also add Opaki, Nelson, Westport, Orari, Beaumont and Tapanui to those closed tracks. But they all went as a result of natural attrition. None of them were really forced to close.

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4 minutes ago, Boss Hogg said:

Hi trump fully agree it should be free entry  ,but a couple of comparisons .Ellerslie $10 entry on line , to see $1,100000 in stakes races and then on thursday we go to Tauherenikau rases $20 entry watching $83000 in total how they get away with it is mind bogeling they say its a family day and we are a poor club "really"  Great picnic meeting but same old food stalls ,not enough tote windows open etc.  Just a bit off track but after Ellerslie pulled the old stand down ,well they had to burn it down because it wouldn"t come down ,and they had the brilliant garden bar behind the old tote , yep they bulldozed that .the crowds never returned ,so sad ,Cheers BH

The bizarre thing about Tauherenikau is that they don't put a cent of that entrance fee windfall into stakes and make no effort to attract better fields, much like HB. . Obviously there is no incentive for clubs to make the extra effort these days, so I suppose you can hardly blame them.  And I suspect an extra $20,000 or so put into stakes would hardly attract any extra horses. So make hay while the sun shines I suppose.

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54 minutes ago, We're Doomed said:

The bizarre thing about Tauherenikau is that they don't put a cent of that entrance fee windfall into stakes and make no effort to attract better fields, much like HB. . Obviously there is no incentive for clubs to make the extra effort these days, so I suppose you can hardly blame them.  And I suspect an extra $20,000 or so put into stakes would hardly attract any extra horses. So make hay while the sun shines I suppose.

Dead right. There is no longer any incentive for clubs to be effortful in staging competitive wagering events which is what generates the revenue that provides the stakes. Their incentive is to generate as much oncourse revenue as possible to contribute to their own operating costs.

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I was never a fan of charging entry to race meetings until a couple of years ago when I seen a family I knew at the races sitting there having a picnic in a prime location on course. Asked them if they had made any money only to get the response that they were not betting, only having a competition between themselves picking horses. Why should they get free entry when they would not have spent a cent on track that day? 

Simple loyalty card system so those regular punters and race goer should earn enough points to gain entry for free. 

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1 hour ago, Aaron Bidlake said:

I was never a fan of charging entry to race meetings until a couple of years ago when I seen a family I knew at the races sitting there having a picnic in a prime location on course. Asked them if they had made any money only to get the response that they were not betting, only having a competition between themselves picking horses. Why should they get free entry when they would not have spent a cent on track that day? 

Simple loyalty card system so those regular punters and race goer should earn enough points to gain entry for free. 

Don't forget the more people oncourse the more exposure to sponsors products or services. Or at least more exposure if race meetings were run with business flair which most sadly are not.

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1 minute ago, poundforpound said:

If I ran a racing club I’d pay punters 5% of their verified on course bets to come to the races 

 Not internet... verified on course bets only 

That would be fine if the club is getting a % of oncourse turnover. Would you do that if not?

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2 hours ago, Aaron Bidlake said:

I was never a fan of charging entry to race meetings until a couple of years ago when I seen a family I knew at the races sitting there having a picnic in a prime location on course. Asked them if they had made any money only to get the response that they were not betting, only having a competition between themselves picking horses. Why should they get free entry when they would not have spent a cent on track that day? 

Simple loyalty card system so those regular punters and race goer should earn enough points to gain entry for free. 

I bet thru Tab Aussie and their loyalty programme gives you bonus points and points to buy tickets on Premier race days a great system that works well 

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2 hours ago, Aaron Bidlake said:

I was never a fan of charging entry to race meetings until a couple of years ago when I seen a family I knew at the races sitting there having a picnic in a prime location on course. Asked them if they had made any money only to get the response that they were not betting, only having a competition between themselves picking horses. Why should they get free entry when they would not have spent a cent on track that day? 

Simple loyalty card system so those regular punters and race goer should earn enough points to gain entry for free. 

Hi Aaron you havent mentioned Ginger Jane yet ,looks to be a good chance on her previous run ,hope she goes well .Cheers BH

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25 minutes ago, Boss Hogg said:

Hi Aaron you havent mentioned Ginger Jane yet ,looks to be a good chance on her previous run ,hope she goes well .Cheers BH

Bit off topic Boss but she is a nice filly who went well enough on debut, just left a bit flat footed when they quickened so stepping up to 1400 meters will only help. Once she learns the whole game she could be well above average on what she has shown at home. 

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3 hours ago, poundforpound said:

If I ran a racing club I’d pay punters 5% of their verified on course bets to come to the races 

 Not internet... verified on course bets only 

In days of betting duty in UK betting on course was duty free so it encouraged big punters to go on course .System changed 20 odd years back . But was always nice getting on course bonus freebee  even for small punter .

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This game is all about the horse, and how the public can fall in love with the racehorse.  For this to occur they need the oncourse experience.  I believe that TAB not only does not promote on course attendance but actually promotes you to bet offcourse with ads like “bet from the comfort of your own couch” etc  In years gone by you use to be encouraged to punt oncourse with oncourse trebles etc.  Nowadays you get preferential treatment by betting on your device at home.  Regular Saturday promotions where if your horse runs 2nd or 3rd you get money back, but not if you bet on course.  

On Derby day in Australia the Australian TAB app on your device recognized if you were oncourse “on venue” light came on and oncourse punters got promotions that off course punters did not.  The promotion on the day was money back if your horse finished in first 5 but did not win up to $50.

Ellerslie race course attendance for their whole year in 2019 was 57,500.  Take out Karaka Millions and Boxing day, and suddenly you have a very small number spread over the remaining 17 meetings.  

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5 minutes ago, shaneMcAlister said:

 

Ellerslie race course attendance for their whole year in 2019 was 57,500.  Take out Karaka Millions and Boxing day, and suddenly you have a very small number spread over the remaining 17 meetings.  

Even if you leave in Millions day and boxing day that is still pretty small numbers; just on 3,000 per meeting. Puts the 5,000 at both Timaru and Kurow into perspective.

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