ANSWERS TO RITA QUESTIONS

[scooby3051 10,868]

Hi RaCecafers,

                   Hope the festive season is going well for everyone.

Dean Mckenzie has agreed to do a follow up with us on the questions you all submitted earlier.

Please have a think about anything new you all would like to ask or need clarification on as there is a lot of misinformation out there that Dean would like to clear up.

I will leave the thread up until the 11th of Jan 2020 and then will choose all the relevant questions/queries to submit to him like last time.

He is very good to do this with us and I hope we can submit some straightforward questions and he will give us straightforward answers to these.

Many thanks in advance for your participation.

Leigh                       

[Leggy 4,076]

3 hours ago, scooby3051 said:

Please have a think about anything new you all would like to ask or need clarification on as there is a lot of misinformation out there that Dean would like to clear up.                       

What misinformation?

[scooby3051 10,868]

Just ask the questions and lets see where we all end up...cheers.

[Stables 577]

What is Mr. McKenzie's view of the current racing legislation before parliament and the comitment to racing of the current minister for racing?

[Leggy 4,076]

1 hour ago, scooby3051 said:

Just ask the questions and lets see where we all end up...cheers.

If that's in response to my post, that post is my question. I think I've read every paper and submission and the legislation that's been made public on this. It's hard to ask an intelligent question to clear up misinformation if I don't know what the misinformation is.

If you like, I'll rephrase the question.

What misinformation do you think is out there and what else do we need to know to clear that up?

[scooby3051 10,868]

Dunno he just mentioned that to me and that was why he wanted me to submit more questions from the good folks on here. You posted elsewhere there are discussions with him so maybe you can ask him yourself....

[Leggy 4,076]

13 minutes ago, scooby3051 said:

Dunno he just mentioned that to me and that was why he wanted me to submit more questions from the good folks on here. You posted elsewhere there are discussions with him so maybe you can ask him yourself....

Haha. I have it diarised. Might get a free sausage roll as well. No beer though it sounds like.

Btw scoobs I tried to post that here but it wouldn't copy and paste. The link is here though https://www.rita.org.nz/join-rita-executive-chair-industry-conversation-2020

[scooby3051 10,868]

Racing Industry Transition Agency (RITA) Executive Chair, Dean McKenzie welcomes you to join him in 2020 for a conversation about the racing industry today, the reform underway and the performance of the TAB.

• 21 January @5pm - Awapuni Racing Centre, Palmerston North
• 22 January @6pm - Ascot Park Racecourse, Invercargill
• 23 January @11am - Cambridge Jockey Club
• 23 January @4.30pm - Pukekohe Park
• 24 January @ 12pm - Addington Raceway & Events Centre, Christchurch

Other dates may be added.

Tea, coffee and light snacks will be provided.

Should you have any questions for Dean, you can email this to us in advance to rita.news@tab.co.nz.

[Leggy 4,076]

11 hours ago, poundforpound said:

Hi Dean

Are you happy with the current performance of the RIU ?

I note you’ve unfortunately appointed yet another ex Policeman to head this organization.

Given the level of concern about the influence of a couple of ex Policemen currently employed by the RIU, their paucity of racing knowledge, and the fiasco evolving with Operation Inca, including the harness code demanding intervention, is RITA likely to do anything about the RIU, including but not limited to appointing some persons with racing experience & knowledge to that organization ?

Thanks 
Leo 

 

Wasn't that pretty much dealt with by the Burgess report and recommendations Leo?

https://www.dia.govt.nz/diawebsite.nsf/Files/Racing-Industry-Bill/$file/Special-Review-of-Structure-and-Efficacy-of-RIU-and-Integrity-Bodies.pdf

[Leggy 4,076]

4 hours ago, scooby3051 said:

Racing Industry Transition Agency (RITA) Executive Chair, Dean McKenzie welcomes you to join him in 2020 for a conversation about the racing industry today, the reform underway and the performance of the TAB.

• 21 January @5pm - Awapuni Racing Centre, Palmerston North
• 22 January @6pm - Ascot Park Racecourse, Invercargill
• 23 January @11am - Cambridge Jockey Club
• 23 January @4.30pm - Pukekohe Park
• 24 January @ 12pm - Addington Raceway & Events Centre, Christchurch

Other dates may be added.

Tea, coffee and light snacks will be provided.

Should you have any questions for Dean, you can email this to us in advance to rita.news@tab.co.nz.

Thanks Scooby.

Might or not call in for a free savoury or two but don't really have any questions other than the above. What is happening rightly or wrongly seems pretty clear to me.

[Leggy 4,076]

1 hour ago, poundforpound said:

Ummm..... Burgess is now the head of the RIU

Don't know him, I’ve spoken on the phone to him a couple of times, he seems a decent bloke.... but yet another retired cop who appears to have no significant racing knowledge working from his holiday home in Wanaka ..... that’s kinda what I’m saying is bad for racing ... “James Hunts” like Grimstone exploit this situation 

Fair enough. Maybe Dean can clear up the plan there per your original question then.

[gubellini 3,995]

Dean what are your projected figures for minimum gallops stakes in the 2020-2021 Season?

[slam dunk 1,317]

Do you think the TAB is  necessary for NZ racing as the exclusive  local based operator for wagering on NZ racing?

To clarify the question. I don't mean betting on sports or overseas racing events. If you believe that TAB is necessary then is there a forum or mechanism I can prove to you that is not the case?

If TAB is actually not necessary doesn't that blow out of the water the claim by TAB to all intellectual property rights etc? 

Also are you prepared to listen with open mind to

      a. overseas bookies are not needed in NZ?

      b. there exists a far better betting format than tote, bookie or exchange?

      c. Trackside and media should be separate to wagering operators as in other jurisdictions?

 

 

[Berri 2,131]

Unfortunately I have an awful lot to ask about the proposed Act. I will always refer to the proposed Act amendment. So this will be the first of a number of separate concerns culminating in  perspective question....

I note that the Act relates to New Zealand racing  and that the reason for changing the Act is to promote the long term viability of NZ racing. Does this mean that the Act (3 (a) (ii) is making New Zealand Racing as the default beneficiary of the Act (i.e. the primary beneficiary)?

Additional questions will be asked regarding 3(a) (iii) and 3(a) (iv) but they will follow.

 

[Red Rum 1,833]

How far into construction are the three all weather tracks ? What surface have they decided on and why  ? What are the proposed dates for first meetings on those tracks ? 

Thanks 

[50 win no. 1 106]

Hello Dean, 

I wish to open a bar where I would be the bookmaker. I wish to take win/place, quinella, trifecta and doubles. at my odds. Of course I would pay to use the local racing action..  Is this possible? I plan to build a clientele. ,  do my own marketing and run my own specials. Is this possible? 

[Nukkledragga 229]

Here is a question that I hope you can answer,the bookies here in nz are run as a monopoly by the tab and bookies cut you off if you are a winner, they target losers (possibly contrary to 3 b as above ) whereas tote betting is absolutely fair to all but apart from the rank failure of triple trio , no innovations have been tried for tote betting.Bookies markets are bad value in all ways compared to the tote ( recent headlines about big punters say it all) Are there any tote upgrades or new bet types specific to tote betting planned? The only choice is through the bookies.One bet I would like to see developed is a cross code multi type bet done through the tote pools as well as cross code poker type bets, they are only available with bookies whose odds are crap ,we as punters have nothing to lose by betting through the tote. Million$ was spent on upgrading systems for the bookies so they can gouge us more efficiently ,how  about some fair betting options for the rank and file punters.

[shaneMcAlister 1,425]

I personally think there joining a world TAB pool is worth investigating. This would attract large punters, knowing two things:

1.  They can get big bets on which is. It the case with most bookmakers

2. the market could absorb their bets, and price not drastically change. 
 

Are we looking at possibility of joining a world betting pool?

[Eclipsed 245]

Two questions.....

1. when, as a date, will RITA determine the code body funding distribution quantum for the 20/21 racing season? 

2. given speculation over the sustainability of the current level of funding in the current 19/20 season, what will be the key determinant in assessing the distribution quantum for the 20/21 racing season?

[Berri 2,131]

Dean

Betting is different from “Games of Chance” (lotteries, pokies, cards etc), which could be colloquially expressed as straight out gambling. A “Bet” could be described as:

“Where the outcome of a wager is based either in full or in part on the outcome of an event where an element of human skill and judgement is required in order to predict the outcome of the event”.

And a “Wager” could be described as:

“Where an agreed amount of currency is staked by two participants or more in order to complete a bet”.

The DNA to our potential income streams for our entire industry should be premised on being allowed to take bets on anything that is classed as a “Bet” and in particular being able to engage with the rest of the World (either by ourselves, in partnership, or on our behalf) to offer as many products to as many people with offerings that could be classed as a “Bet”. TAB NZ should be known around the World as the best place to engage with/ offer/ be licensed under in order to offer bets so that it can clip the ticket as many times as is possible to support the financial viability of racing as the primary beneficiary (hence my last query), and the sports associations.

In Part 1 Clause 5 (Page 8) of the proposed Bill (attached) we have the Interpretations Section. The one of considerable interest to me is the one concerning the interpretation of a “Bet” and the associations with the “Bet”. It is as follows:

 

The two obvious interpretations that are then needed to understand are the definitions of “Race Betting” and “Sports Betting”. “Race Betting (Page 10) is as follows:

“Sports Betting” (Page 12) is as follows:

The important issue in respect of “Sports Betting” is what a “Sporting Event” actually is. “Sporting Event” (Page 12) is as follows:

So here we are in a World environment, where betting competition is about to increase dramatically due to increased betting events and Blockchain betting solutions, but we (NZ, NZ Racing and NZ Sports) are restricting ourselves to racing bets and sporting bets, or a combination of both (why?) where the sporting events are events covered by (a), (b) or (c) above.

If this Bill is meant to be relevant for the next 20 years, why are we supporting legislation that restricts our potential competitiveness and betting revenue to racing and sports contests only, where a registered NZ sporting authority has signed an agreement with TAB NZ? Is that the future we have to look forward to?

Did you know that virtual gaming and sports are currently the fastest growing betting events? Recently a virtual team game commanded an estimated $1.2b of bets...a single event.

If you had a betting account with a betting service provider who only offered a small proportion of the betting opportunities available, and you were approached by a much larger betting provider who offered all the betting options, which betting service provider would you probably become loyal to?

If that large betting service provider could offer the alternative bets to NZ customers due to an outsourcing agreement, but the returns of these bets couldn’t be captured by NZ racing or sports because they are not registered agreements in NZ, then why wouldn’t you open the gain to allow every bet that was legally a bet and not just bets on racing and sports?

In addition, if you entered into an outsourcing agreement with a larger betting service provider, and were able to provide all types of bets and not just the conventional bets whose appeal is currently diminishing, would not the potential agreement be much more lucrative if you could offer all bets?

Please change the definition of a bet. Your comments would be appreciated.

[Leggy 4,076]

On 12/28/2019 at 5:44 PM, Leggy said:

If that's in response to my post, that post is my question. I think I've read every paper and submission and the legislation that's been made public on this. It's hard to ask an intelligent question to clear up misinformation if I don't know what the misinformation is.

If you like, I'll rephrase the question.

What misinformation do you think is out there and what else do we need to know to clear that up?

OK. We now have this on the supposed misinformation.

https://www.rita.org.nz/racing-reform-update-6-chair-dean-mckenzie

[Leggy 4,076]

I don't see this as clarifying any misinformation. More just reiterating the information that we already have including a number of unsupported claims. Where is the data that any of this will either increase revenue or reduce costs? Aside from pinching funds and capital from taxpayers and communities that is. I don't see a sign of anything there that will help racing increase it's net revenue.

[Pam Robson 1,547]

 Nor me.

As for the 'increase in bet types'  how will that help in an already dwindling punter base?

[Berri 2,131]

3 hours ago, Pam Robson said:

 Nor me.

As for the 'increase in bet types'  how will that help in an already dwindling punter base?

If our leaders are committed enough, brave enough and intelligent enough, they will realise that there are some bet types that can provide opportunities past and beyond what is currently being envisaged. The problem is the current proposed bill doesn't get anywhere near this frontier. There are potential markets available to us but we need the platform and opportunity to exploit these.

[slam dunk 1,317]

3 hours ago, Berri said:

If our leaders are committed enough, brave enough and intelligent enough, they will realise that there are some bet types that can provide opportunities past and beyond what is currently being envisaged. The problem is the current proposed bill doesn't get anywhere near this frontier. There are potential markets available to us but we need the platform and opportunity to exploit these.

One should distinguish between bet types and system of betting. For example the tote system has several bet types e.g. win, place, quinella, trifecta etc. There are 3 systems however viz.  Tote, Bookie and Exchange.

What I am saying there is a 4th system that ticks most of the boxes and is far cheaper to administer. Long term superior to the existing three.