Midget 4,489 Report post Posted November 30, 2019 I have watched the replay 30 plus times and I feel sick for the connections and it is beyond belief there was a reversal of placings. The onus has always been that any horse promoted, must be in all likelihood, would have finished in front of the interfered horse . Clearly, on this occasion, that is NOT THE CASE. In the Stewards report, it states the interference happened inside the last 100m,I believe the minimal interference happened inside the last 20m when Taroni was looking at the winning post and lost concentration...Bordequx Le Rouge and Taroni has been together almost the entire race and were head to head at the straight entrance and yet despite Taroni getting on one rein and having a big bo-peep at the winning post, she never looked like getting beaten and had her ears pricked at the winning post. i would say that this decision is even worse than the relegation of Magic Briar and that takes some doing. Lee is it possible to run a poll to get Cafer's opinions on this wrongful decision. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and that is the only way some justice can be seen to be done on this tragic and unjust relegation. TurnyTom, gubellini and Leggy 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurnyTom 1,519 Report post Posted November 30, 2019 I am like the opening poster as rarely I bet in NZ, it is simply a raffle on many fronts and this decision is classic and supports my decision taken 5 years ago Midget 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rum 1,833 Report post Posted November 30, 2019 2 hours ago, Midget said: Yes, you are correct, but can you name any other Judicial Body that doesn't have an appeal process in place.I mean you can commit murder and appeal the decision. So what this says to me ,is the JCA is NEVER wrong and there is no need for any recourse by way of an appeal to any decision they make.WRONG WRONG Never heard any racing jurisdiction that cannot appeal raceday stewards , never occurred to me that there wouldn't be appeal process . Is OZ the same ? . No appeal strikes me as no confidence in panels ability , same as if you as licence holder cannot criticise authorities , blimey most trainers in UK and Ire be red carded if that was case . Sounds draconian and very old fashion . When you try to shut people up its a sign of weakness . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rum 1,833 Report post Posted November 30, 2019 9 hours ago, Gruff said: The argument the fav had its chance to get past doesnt sit , it was 1100m after all so was entitled to use this to its entirety, so its completely on point of contact and momentum,and with the fav being ridden out to that point and taking into consideration the head margin was that enough ? The Side on video is all you need. Placings stand He was hauling first past post in slowly down straight so doubt the minor interference in final strides cost him chance to get by I was trying to argue but yes you dead right , if it's a 1100 he don't have to be in front until post . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
voice of reason 83 Report post Posted November 30, 2019 if not a te akau horse would it be the same result ?..it is now karaka qualified..due to total incompetence by stipes..will anyone in media challenger them ?..will the weigh in crew say this is bullshit?will des copout say ,this is bullshit? ..yeah/nah...so it will eventually flitter away ,while so many punters are burned and scarred...hope karma is a bitch for te akau Huey and flockofewes2 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruff 2,778 Report post Posted November 30, 2019 Interesting to note the last inquiry at Ellerslie involving Two year olds ,Trident and Devotion in motion was instigated by connections unlike this Stewards objection one could argue Tridents was the more obvious interference further from the winning post Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruff 2,778 Report post Posted November 30, 2019 1 minute ago, voice of reason said: if not a te akau horse would it be the same result ?..it is now karaka qualified..due to total incompetence by stipes..will anyone in media challenger them ?..will the weigh in crew say this is bullshit?will des copout say ,this is bullshit? ..yeah/nah...so it will eventually flitter away ,while so many punters are burned and scarred...hope karma is a bitch for te akau Hey Voice you have fair points but can you blame Jamie Richards crew? Karma should be exercised on the deserving Baz (NZ) 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
voice of reason 83 Report post Posted November 30, 2019 fair call gruff ...im just a little bit furious at the moment ,which is affecting my voice of reason Gruff and Baz (NZ) 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
We're Doomed 4,824 Report post Posted November 30, 2019 35 minutes ago, Red Rum said: Never heard any racing jurisdiction that cannot appeal raceday stewards , never occurred to me that there wouldn't be appeal process . Is OZ the same ? . No appeal strikes me as no confidence in panels ability , same as if you as licence holder cannot criticise authorities , blimey most trainers in UK and Ire be red carded if that was case . Sounds draconian and very old fashion . When you try to shut people up its a sign of weakness . Pretty sure they can't appeal them in Aussie either. The Jewel certainly wasn't appealed, or Poetic Prince. Although I can vaguely recall He's Remarkable's connections considered an appeal but not sure if it actually happened. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rum 1,833 Report post Posted November 30, 2019 Owner of demoted will get money back if promoted winner goes and wins Million with sire on his stud roster , it's all just a money merry go around at top end as the horses life cycle turns and passes between hands , money slushing around .Backers of first past post ones been done up like a kipper . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy 4,007 Report post Posted November 30, 2019 2 hours ago, Red Rum said: Never heard any racing jurisdiction that cannot appeal raceday stewards , never occurred to me that there wouldn't be appeal process . Is OZ the same ? . No appeal strikes me as no confidence in panels ability , same as if you as licence holder cannot criticise authorities , blimey most trainers in UK and Ire be red carded if that was case . Sounds draconian and very old fashion . When you try to shut people up its a sign of weakness . The Ky Derby was the same this year wasn't it? No appeal provision. Attempt declined. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Donovan 48 Report post Posted November 30, 2019 Have not heard one person who agreed with this decision, even those who ended up backing the winner. ADM 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
100 1 1,386 Report post Posted November 30, 2019 I think this maybe the rule The new rule will mean connections of a horse protesting a race result will have to convince a judicial committee that their horse would have finished ahead of the horse who caused the interference. Her's the problem as I see it. The interference actually benefited the 2nd horse thus reducing the winning margin to a head as the winning horse lost momentum to avoid contact.. e.g So if the 2 horses swapped lanes and the 2nd horse had a straight run to the line and the winner, although shying was able to continue being ridden with momentum it is almost certain to have won by a far greater margin. Hence the JCA decision ......would have finished ahead of the horse who caused the interference ....is not valid IMO Gruff 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloke 1,232 Report post Posted November 30, 2019 23 minutes ago, poundforpound said: That’s a ludicrous comment. Firstly I think it was a bad decision too..... but the Te Akau horse has already earned 4500 his first start so if he’d finished second yesterday he’d definitely have made the KM field with 8300 earnings ( there’s never been a KM field yet when 8300 didn’t guarantee you a start ) Stick to the facts champ and forget the bizarre hysterical disinformation Agreed, the relegated horse is owned by the Lindsays and if we are going to get into conspiracy theories then it could be argued that they are much bigger than Te Akau and could have more influence. Quite simply just a poor decision. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey 2,037 Report post Posted December 1, 2019 3 hours ago, Red Rum said: Owner of demoted will get money back if promoted winner goes and wins Million with sire on his stud roster , it's all just a money merry go around at top end as the horses life cycle turns and passes between hands , money slushing around .Backers of first past post ones been done up like a kipper . Fantastic for them, but what about the punter?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midget 4,489 Report post Posted December 1, 2019 2 hours ago, Huey said: Fantastic for them, but what about the punter?? I must say, none of the connections of Te Akau Racing had any input into this relegation or inquiry I am told that the rider was quoted as saying, we were beaten on our merits. If this was the case then surely it is time to have a serious look at the competency of the RIU and the JCA in this instance. This is not good enough in my opinion. Dwyn, Insider and Huey 2 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flockofewes2 216 Report post Posted December 1, 2019 3 hours ago, Midget said: I must say, none of the connections of Te Akau Racing had any input into this relegation or inquiry I am told that the rider was quoted as saying, we were beaten on our merits. If this was the case then surely it is time to have a serious look at the competency of the RIU and the JCA in this instance. This is not good enough in my opinion. I see you have been brought up to speed. Who exactly were the officials who...instigated the inquiry and arrived at the decision to relegate...names please. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midget 4,489 Report post Posted December 1, 2019 19 minutes ago, flockofewes2 said: I see you have been brought up to speed. Who exactly were the officials who...instigated the inquiry and arrived at the decision to relegate...names please. J Oatham was the Steward, but will not know who was on the JCA panel until that information appears on their website Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flockofewes2 216 Report post Posted December 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, Midget said: J Oatham was the Steward, but will not know who was on the JCA panel until that information appears on their website Don't follow the NZ scene closely but guessed it would be JO....sycophant to the 'stars' IMO. Insider 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rum 1,833 Report post Posted December 1, 2019 9 hours ago, Leggy said: The Ky Derby was the same this year wasn't it? No appeal provision. Attempt declined. Secret Gesture lost the 2015 Beverley D in Stewards room, connections went back and had two day appeal hearing , still lost but appeal and chance to put case to higher authority none the less . Yanks racing rules all over the show state to state as you know . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruff 2,778 Report post Posted December 2, 2019 22 hours ago, flockofewes2 said: I see you have been brought up to speed. Who exactly were the officials who...instigated the inquiry and arrived at the decision to relegate...names please. Question remains would the connections of the runner up put in a protest if the Stipes hadnt ? Unless that fact is already known Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy 4,007 Report post Posted December 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Gruff said: Question remains would the connections of the runner up put in a protest if the Stipes hadnt ? Unless that fact is already known You could just read the JCA report. http://www.jca.org.nz/race-days/auckland-rc-thoroughbred-racing-30-11-2019/auckland-rc-30-november-2019-r-2-instigating-a-protest-chair-mr-a-dooley/?query={"portal_type": ["OldSiteHearing", "Hearing", "NonRaceDayHearing", "ProtestHearingDecision", "RequestRulingHearing"], "SearchableText": ""} The Information indicated that the Protest had been instigated by Mr P Richards on behalf of the connections of BORDEAUX LE ROUGE. However, Mr Ellis the Principal of Te Akau Racing told the Committee that he did not wish to pursue the protest. At this juncture Mr Oatham advised the Committee that the Stipendiary Stewards would be the Informant and proceeded on that basis. Make of that what you will. We're Doomed and GOM 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruff 2,778 Report post Posted December 2, 2019 Sam Collet had nothing to say Her opinion would of been the difference surely. Secondly, when is shifting out a relegation offence? There was a classic at Morphetville a few years back where two horses eyeballed each other from the turn going from the rail to almost the outside fence , protest was dismissed after 5 minutes and as far as loss of momentum goes in this case there wasnt any, the side on video was conclusive.Danielle stopped riding not Sam Collet which should of been the main focus given the head margin ,which is Ultimately why the protest was upheld and the only reason the fav got closer . If this was their first day on the job you could understand flockofewes2 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flockofewes2 216 Report post Posted December 2, 2019 So Te Akau's trainer fires in a protest on behalf of LBR connections. TA boss DE,informs stewards TA did not wish to proceed. Stipes assume the role of informant. Just a perfect result. Huey 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim vince 985 Report post Posted December 3, 2019 Without head on back on hard to tell.the jc a have rules they have to adhere to.the opinion it was going to win if it went straight is not relevant.it didn't.the jc a has to adhere to rules.they don't make them.very experienced and competent panel.would be nice if all information and film made public.thennexplanations from the top.im not at all surprised by the decision as I believe the back on and headons might reveal the damage.lets c them.back on extremely important in these sort of enquiries sometimes it is surprising what they show.better or would help. talk 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...