eljay 1,719 Report post Posted November 24, 2019 Guarantee HRNZ would not allow Auckland to run a meeting on night of New Zealand Cup - yet this coming Friday Addington are running a meeting in direct competition to the first night of Interdom heats. I suppose that is South Island logic - dumb, dumb, dumb! Obvious who runs the show, isn't it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iraklis 2,231 Report post Posted November 24, 2019 Oh wow, well that's one outta left field.....how far out from meetings do they do calendar prep? could it simply be a programmin mistake that they couldn't back out of once realised? mind bogglin that..... Cheers Iraklis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljay 1,719 Report post Posted November 24, 2019 The I.D's have been scheduled this date (maybe earlier) when dates for whole season set which is when Addington date set also. Therefore to me it's just either plain stupidity, or brainless, or idiocy, or similar. Dates calendar done by Racing Board in cohoots with the individual codes and all bodies no doubt give the year's schedule the big tick prior to it's release. Iraklis 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stables 577 Report post Posted November 24, 2019 They're catering for a different class of horse Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljay 1,719 Report post Posted November 24, 2019 ???????? This is about betting 2Piper 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stables 577 Report post Posted November 24, 2019 Why don't Auckland race on a Saturday night. Would make things a lot easier for trainers to get their horses to the races and with Aucklands population it should still get a good crowd Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie 325 Report post Posted November 24, 2019 (edited) Dear Lloyd, The dates for the 2018/19 season were released as far back as June of 2018. The fact that only now have you brought it up is obviously because, until today, you had not realised that the 2 Metropolitan Clubs were racing against each other. Your thinking appears to be that the Inter Dominions are sacrosanct, and they should have a night on their own. I would usually agree with you without reservation but since your Club can only attract 26 pacers, and some of them completely outclassed, my support for your view isn't as strong as it would normally be if that were the only reason you are complaining. I do agree however, because the problem of the 2 Clubs racing against each other isn't confined to this Friday night, to me it is any Friday night that they compete with each other. It is a fact that the TAB turnovers of the 2 Clubs added together on any Friday night is 33% less than an average night a decade ago of 1 Club and the trending of this has been consistent ever since they started racing on the same night. Consistently trending down. I have been told the on-course and TAB turnovers of a recent Friday night at Alexandra Park which I won't repeat on here until I check for myself. It is not that I doubt my source but I just don't like presenting something as a fact unlessI can verify it. Suffice to say that it was a mile night that apparently is "a real attraction" according to your Racing Manager. The Turnovers that were achieved both on and off-course would be disheartening to the Taupo or Westland Racing Club racing on a Tuesday in June on a Heavy 10 track. Haven''t you ever wondered why they stopped publishing the Turnovers in the Weekly or online? The Harness Racing Industry made a huge blunder in giving up Saturday nights in order that the Thoroughbred code could run 2 or 3 domestic meetings on a Saturday and then beam in the Australian races without what they termed interference The answer is for Alexandra Park to race on Saturday nights. The reason for leaving Addington on Friday nights is because 1. the South Island's Canterbury area can sustain another meeting on the Sunday whereas Auckland cannot 2. traffic as mentioned by Stables and 3. to stop cannibalising the TAB turnover The only reasons that I have ever been given in opposition to this happening is Alexandra Park bleating that they have a lot of functions on a Saturday night. Given the turnover for a night's on-course betting the patrons at a race-meeting would not put any pressure on function rooms. We are talking of 5 figures, low 5 figures, not 6 figures. If you took away trainers and drivers the balance of the 'crowd' could probably all fit in theTAB area of the Sports Bar. I am well aware that about 4 seasons ago they conducted a trial of 4 Saturdays from memory with harness racing. The trial wasn't successful but it was never going to be when you were trying to change a decade or more of habits ingrained in people. Even I, a devoted gambler back then, couldn't get back into the habit of watching on a Saturday night and I missed watching all but 1 of the nights. The answer was simple Lloyd, people like you and Tim Vince (whom I have a lot of time for) needed to clean out the Committee and get in charge and make decisions like these. The answer isn't that simple now because I doubt that many people want to be on the Committee with the building project issues. I can hold my head up high as regards this disaster, I asked the late President before a sod was turned why the Club was engaging in a risk prone endeavour instead of merely selling the land and letting someone else take the risk. His reply at the time I remember did assuage my concerns a little bit, and of course no one knows what sort of influence he may have had on the whole matter if he had still been around., his own success would indicate that he probably would have been a huge help Mikie Edited November 24, 2019 by Mikie spelling tasman man 11, MisterEd and Stables 1 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tasman man 11 979 Report post Posted November 24, 2019 Mikie makes some very pertinent points. It would be good to see the turnover figures. There have been some atrocious attendance figures at AP the past 2 x years .Impossible to get any lower IMO. I suspect Saturday is very profitable for functions there. Rusty 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty 575 Report post Posted November 24, 2019 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty 575 Report post Posted November 24, 2019 Unfortunately my question could not (would not) be answered. But thanks for putting in an appearance Dean and throwing a few words together. Shot mate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie 325 Report post Posted November 24, 2019 The Turnover figures for Tote and Fixed odds could be made available In 12 months time one would be able to compare Turnovers (or they could be more transparent and make the previous 12 months available) Club Secretaries are given T/O for both Tote and Fixed Odds betting within 48 hours of the meeting so it isn’t correct to say that they are unavailable Mikie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim vince 985 Report post Posted November 24, 2019 Used to be in harness weekly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Piper 408 Report post Posted November 24, 2019 6 hours ago, Mikie said: Dear Lloyd, The dates for the 2018/19 season were released as far back as June of 2018. The fact that only now have you brought it up is obviously because, until today, you had not realised that the 2 Metropolitan Clubs were racing against each other. Your thinking appears to be that the Inter Dominions are sacrosanct, and they should have a night on their own. I would usually agree with you without reservation but since your Club can only attract 26 pacers, and some of them completely outclassed, my support for your view isn't as strong as it would normally be if that were the only reason you are complaining. I do agree however, because the problem of the 2 Clubs racing against each other isn't confined to this Friday night, to me it is any Friday night that they compete with each other. It is a fact that the TAB turnovers of the 2 Clubs added together on any Friday night is 33% less than an average night a decade ago of 1 Club and the trending of this has been consistent ever since they started racing on the same night. Consistently trending down. I have been told the on-course and TAB turnovers of a recent Friday night at Alexandra Park which I won't repeat on here until I check for myself. It is not that I doubt my source but I just don't like presenting something as a fact unlessI can verify it. Suffice to say that it was a mile night that apparently is "a real attraction" according to your Racing Manager. The Turnovers that were achieved both on and off-course would be disheartening to the Taupo or Westland Racing Club racing on a Tuesday in June on a Heavy 10 track. Haven''t you ever wondered why they stopped publishing the Turnovers in the Weekly or online? The Harness Racing Industry made a huge blunder in giving up Saturday nights in order that the Thoroughbred code could run 2 or 3 domestic meetings on a Saturday and then beam in the Australian races without what they termed interference The answer is for Alexandra Park to race on Saturday nights. The reason for leaving Addington on Friday nights is because 1. the South Island's Canterbury area can sustain another meeting on the Sunday whereas Auckland cannot 2. traffic as mentioned by Stables and 3. to stop cannibalising the TAB turnover The only reasons that I have ever been given in opposition to this happening is Alexandra Park bleating that they have a lot of functions on a Saturday night. Given the turnover for a night's on-course betting the patrons at a race-meeting would not put any pressure on function rooms. We are talking of 5 figures, low 5 figures, not 6 figures. If you took away trainers and drivers the balance of the 'crowd' could probably all fit in theTAB area of the Sports Bar. I am well aware that about 4 seasons ago they conducted a trial of 4 Saturdays from memory with harness racing. The trial wasn't successful but it was never going to be when you were trying to change a decade or more of habits ingrained in people. Even I, a devoted gambler back then, couldn't get back into the habit of watching on a Saturday night and I missed watching all but 1 of the nights. The answer was simple Lloyd, people like you and Tim Vince (whom I have a lot of time for) needed to clean out the Committee and get in charge and make decisions like these. The answer isn't that simple now because I doubt that many people want to be on the Committee with the building project issues. I can hold my head up high as regards this disaster, I asked the late President before a sod was turned why the Club was engaging in a risk prone endeavour instead of merely selling the land and letting someone else take the risk. His reply at the time I remember did assuage my concerns a little bit, and of course no one knows what sort of influence he may have had on the whole matter if he had still been around., his own success would indicate that he probably would have been a huge help Mikie Going by the RITA AGM the new betting platform/website saw about 30,000 TAB account holders close their accounts but now have surpassed the previous number and 50,000 new accounts by October. Also mentioned was that the big punters dropped off for a while but they have now have come back. These were the reasons given for lack of turnover and budgeted (income) targets not met. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
john legend 743 Report post Posted November 24, 2019 Interesting comments here. thanks esp Mikie,. I have always been keen to get FF turnovers and believed the measure of the TABs ability to make profits for the industry (not just themselves !) could be put down to these figures. It is needing a great deal of skill to operate as bookmakers with FF turnovers that could in theory end up as a loss , although it has been reported that 5 or 6 % profit is normal. It has also been reported that FF is now getting close to exceeding the normal betting figures. As mentioned I think too that the TAB wish to expose as little info as possible to punters and others in the industry.. many times they delay taking bigger bets and will not take risks which maybe common sense but as we all know even the biggest punters can miss out . our own horse recently was FF paying 81 then 7.50 then 81 over 3 starts and was pushed back along the rails by a tiring fav. to last when having real chance at the final figure. (and potentially large payout) Also the TAB announcing these big punts on certain horses just before the race sometimes to me do not seem logical.(eg recently someone had 3000 on a maiden trotter (supposedly ) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterEd 328 Report post Posted November 24, 2019 15 hours ago, eljay said: ???????? This is about betting I will be betting on both Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim vince 985 Report post Posted November 24, 2019 Scott plant Derek balle Ross Johnson doing good things.the board is ok .not easy.they lost their way with th he buildings.my opinion is they need to be more trainer owner driver friendly.im hoping new CEO new board push hrnz a bit harder.my opinion is that hrnz doesn't always act in best interests of n island and we long seem to challenge them . Got a glimmer of hope .Just a glimmer talking to some board members. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim vince 985 Report post Posted November 24, 2019 Don't seem to challenge them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ Flash 2,132 Report post Posted November 24, 2019 16 hours ago, Rusty said: Unfortunately my question could not (would not) be answered. But thanks for putting in an appearance Dean and throwing a few words together. Shot mate. His reply/answer makes perfect sense to me, perhaps you are trying to shoot the messenger rather than listen to the answer. Globally ,Gross betting revenue is the key metric where F/O are offered. Greg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljay 1,719 Report post Posted November 25, 2019 23 hours ago, Stables said: They're catering for a different class of horse From this weeks noms: - R50 & faster trot. R40 to R60 J.D. Pace. R50 & faster Pace. Not a great deal of difference to Addington when the features are removed. Guarantee if the ID's were at Addington, there would be no N.I. racing at same time. Mikie - wow a lot there and I have not had time to sift through all the points you have raised. I presume you a Mainlander and probably have a connection or just a strong liking for the NZMTC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie 325 Report post Posted November 25, 2019 I have no connection to the NZMTC and no liking for them Since you admit to not having read my post properly it’s probably a waste of time replying further to you isn’t it? Mikie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tasman man 11 979 Report post Posted November 25, 2019 2 hours ago, Mikie said: I have no connection to the NZMTC and no liking for them Since you admit to not having read my post properly it’s probably a waste of time replying further to you isn’t it? Mikie Take it easy on Lloyd ...he's from Taranaki but part of the furniture at AP ,Pukekohe and Cambridge ! I think the thought of going on the committee ,was not too sought after in view of the current mess and the road ahead to trade out of it. I find it weird but Auckland stalwarts find it hard to get much leverage from the South Island bunch who ,rumour has it ,hold the power ......not really the collaboration that the Industry should be demanding ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stables 577 Report post Posted November 25, 2019 HRNZ is controlled by a number of staff who have been in their jobs for too long and have been promoted beyond their level of ability hedley 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljay 1,719 Report post Posted November 25, 2019 15 hours ago, Mikie said: I have no connection to the NZMTC and no liking for them Since you admit to not having read my post properly it’s probably a waste of time replying further to you isn’t it? Mikie Mikie - I didn't say I have not read it "properly" I said I haven't had time to reply to all your points, afterall you raise a lot of them mainly general statements rather than what my original post was about - running two meetings on the night of a major event. Afterall, NZMT have shifted their nights albeit the clash was in their own town (oops I mean city) It's up to you, not me, isn't it, whether you reply to me or anyone else for that matter. I will reply to anything posted in here in the future if I so desire regardless who posts it and whether they like or dislike any/all harness organisations. Enjoy the racing, good punting! Iraklis 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljay 1,719 Report post Posted November 25, 2019 12 hours ago, tasman man 11 said: Take it easy on Lloyd ...he's from Taranaki but part of the furniture at AP ,Pukekohe and Cambridge ! The original home of rugby, racing, and beer! Not part of the furniture though Gary - I'm not to be sat on Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie 325 Report post Posted November 25, 2019 Dear Lloyd You said that you hadn't had time "to sift through my post" which I would venture is very similar to not having read it "properly" I think you are being a bit precious, I was not criticising you, I was merely saying that since you haven't had time to "sift through it" then it would be pointless of me to add further to my post I don't think that I raised any general statements other than my comments about people being reluctant to join the Committee. The rest of my post , I thought, was about your original post which was running 2 meetings on the same night. Your subsequent reply asking if I was connected to the NZMTC or had a strong liking for them seemed to imply that my solution of Alexandra Park running on Saturdays and NZMTC on Fridays wasn't to your liking. It is plainly obvious that your area can't run meetings on a Friday night and on a Sunday, whereas Canterbury can. By default the options for who should race on a Friday and who should race on a Saturday are clear I don't usually like mixing replies to posters but I also don't want to become one of those repetitive posters. Stables, your comment about long term staff controlling HRNZ is just rubbish really. Are you saying Darrin Williams, the Handicapper or the Registration and Licensing staff control policy? They are the only long term Staff after Edward Rennell resigned. Mikie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...