RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
Berri

Can anyone tell me...

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Back to the question. It is interesting to note that the races are the 1000 and 2000 Guineas because of their respective original stakes; that the Newmarket versions have had equal stakes since the turn of the century, currently each 500,000 pounds; and that there, they are run a day apart which essentially precludes fillies contesting both events.

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On 11/17/2019 at 3:22 PM, Leggy said:

I don't see anything political about it flock. As WD says, it's more about the industry itself and it's own ineptitude which has left it begging to government. Unfortunately, Peters has bought that. The first time signing off on what is now $50+m of duty relief with no accountability requirements and so completely wasted. Now another $13m of that. Same. It will disappear with no constructive use or payback to government or taxpayers. He somehow seems to lead the industry to sit on their chuffs and moan on the basis that the Minister and government will provide more and more handouts. It would be more useful if he had said sort your own shit out. The worst of the damage is yet to come from the implementation of the Messara report which Peters and the industry again seem to have bought.

A very sad and painful few years now ahead because of that.

If you can suggest a single positive or constructive thing that WP has or is doing for racing, I'm all ears.

You have just told us of the good things that he’s done!!!

:rcfe-like:

How the he’ll can you blame him for the mess that we are in, especially the nine years between his first go and the current period. 
 

Your true blue mate was wonderful wasn’t he? 
 

Well maybe he wasn’t!
 

Pray tell me what he achieved Leggy! 

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On 11/17/2019 at 7:45 PM, Leggy said:

I already mentioned that above. Now $50+m. A complete waste that us taxpayers are paying. How did that help racing?

As I have said before...how have National helped racing in the last 9 years.

Your position seems to be that you'd rather not have had the millions compliments of WP,because it was just...wasted!:rcf-thinking:

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43 minutes ago, Huey said:

If it wasn't wasted, then why has the industry not progressed an iota since? 

Well its a waste of time giving the  industry funds then,because they'll...only waste it.

Peters wasn't  solely for allocating the funds FFS.responsible 

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11 hours ago, flockofewes2 said:

Well its a waste of time giving the  industry funds then,because they'll...only waste it.

Peters wasn't  solely for allocating the funds FFS.responsible 

I don’t think you are over the facts FOE. I think you’ll find that The money was given by WP on the condition that it was allocated to a number of races over a number of years. For example, the NZ Derby Stake was increased to $2m (I think?) and 2 of the next 3 years winners came from AUSSIE and took Winstons cash. Redoubtes Dancer and Coniston Bluebird. But it was I believe Winstons directive that 4 races receive the $35m. Other people could possibly verify that fact. 

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7 hours ago, Trump said:

I don’t think you are over the facts FOE. I think you’ll find that The money was given by WP on the condition that it was allocated to a number of races over a number of years. For example, the NZ Derby Stake was increased to $2m (I think?) and 2 of the next 3 years winners came from AUSSIE and took Winstons cash. Redoubtes Dancer and Coniston Bluebird. But it was I believe Winstons directive that 4 races receive the $35m. Other people could possibly verify that fact. 

And just why do you  think WP 'decided on that approach?Whimsey?

Wake up and direct your criticism where you know it...belongs!

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7 hours ago, Trump said:

I don’t think you are over the facts FOE. I think you’ll find that The money was given by WP on the condition that it was allocated to a number of races over a number of years. For example, the NZ Derby Stake was increased to $2m (I think?) and 2 of the next 3 years winners came from AUSSIE and took Winstons cash. Redoubtes Dancer and Coniston Bluebird. But it was I believe Winstons directive that 4 races receive the $35m. Other people could possibly verify that fact. 

I think you will find the Derby was $2.25m, as the Kelt was $2m and they wanted to top that. I think the AJC Derby at the time was only about $1m. I was always of the opinion that the money was totally wasted as all of the races involved have now reverted back to their original stakes, or even lower, and there has been no residual benefit to the industry at all. I think some of the Oaks winners were sold overseas afterwards, so they all just took the money and ran. So a very good lesson for the industry re stakes, which I think many predicted at the time. And I think it was five races: Derby, Oaks, 2,000 Guineas, Telegraph and Auckland Cup, but I can't be bothered looking it up so just relying on memory.

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8 minutes ago, We're Doomed said:

I think you will find the Derby was $2.25m, as the Kelt was $2m and they wanted to top that. I think the AJC Derby at the time was only about $1m. I was always of the opinion that the money was totally wasted as all of the races involved have now reverted back to their original stakes, or even lower, and there has been no residual benefit to the industry at all. I think some of the Oaks winners were sold overseas afterwards, so they all just took the money and ran. So a very good lesson for the industry re stakes, which I think many predicted at the time. And I think it was five races: Derby, Oaks, 2,000 Guineas, Telegraph and Auckland Cup, but I can't be bothered looking it up so just relying on memory.

who are these 'they'....maybe 'they' deserve the opprobrium...not WP!

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On 11/19/2019 at 7:35 AM, flockofewes2 said:

Your position seems to be that you'd rather not have had the millions compliments of WP,because it was just...wasted!:rcf-thinking:

Exactly. It has cost taxpayers such as myself $50m a year which could have gone to housing, health or education and hasn't done an iota of good for racing. Probably been detrimental if anything.

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2 minutes ago, Leggy said:

Exactly. It has cost taxpayers such as myself $50m a year which could have gone to housing, health or education and hasn't done an iota of good for racing. Probably been detrimental if anything.

So you believe WP was personally responsible for this waste...?

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On 11/20/2019 at 7:48 AM, We're Doomed said:

I think you will find the Derby was $2.25m, as the Kelt was $2m and they wanted to top that. I think the AJC Derby at the time was only about $1m. I was always of the opinion that the money was totally wasted as all of the races involved have now reverted back to their original stakes, or even lower, and there has been no residual benefit to the industry at all. I think some of the Oaks winners were sold overseas afterwards, so they all just took the money and ran. So a very good lesson for the industry re stakes, which I think many predicted at the time. And I think it was five races: Derby, Oaks, 2,000 Guineas, Telegraph and Auckland Cup, but I can't be bothered looking it up so just relying on memory.

Unfortunately,  the  'very good lesson '   hasn't been learned ,   there is just more clamour for more funding without any effort made to put in place a sustainable model.   So this latest windfall, such as it is,   will, after a small period,  disappear into the mire as well.

The source of the 'advice' given to Winston then doesn't bear scrutiny here -  however,  again,  he has been poorly advised without doing adequate research of his own.

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5 hours ago, Stables said:

That change was in perpetuity so we're still getting it and we're still using it. He has also arranged a furtherv rebate introduced over 5 years so we'd be bankrupt without him 

We are bankrupt anyway. That misused money just delayed the inevitable as will the further $13m. Net profit $28m short of budget. Enough reserves to live beyond our means for another year or so. No sign of any essential fiscal or structural change of note.

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1 hour ago, Leggy said:

We are bankrupt anyway. That misused money just delayed the inevitable as will the further $13m. Net profit $28m short of budget. Enough reserves to live beyond our means for another year or so. No sign of any essential fiscal or structural change of note.

Property consolidation for the good of racing leggy, that'll save the day. Taken from the poor and giving to the rich or already haves always works. 

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2 hours ago, Leggy said:

We are bankrupt anyway. That misused money just delayed the inevitable as will the further $13m. Net profit $28m short of budget. Enough reserves to live beyond our means for another year or so. No sign of any essential fiscal or structural change of note.

What a bastard WP is ,bankrupting the industry on his own.:rcfe-clown:

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22 minutes ago, flockofewes2 said:

What a bastard WP is ,bankrupting the industry on his own.:rcfe-clown:

I didn't say that but throwing money at an unsustainable model is no help at all. And he has precluded the RITA board from adjusting distributions in line with earnings via his letter of instruction to them so he is doing a fairly good job of helping it along that track.

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3 hours ago, Leggy said:

I didn't say that but throwing money at an unsustainable model is no help at all. And he has precluded the RITA board from adjusting distributions in line with earnings via his letter of instruction to them so he is doing a fairly good job of helping it along that track.

Did it occur to you that WP may be following the instructions of a major donor?

Maybe the blame should be redirected to where it...belongs!:rcf-rich:

 

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11 minutes ago, flockofewes2 said:

Did it occur to you that WP may be following the instructions of a major donor?

Maybe the blame should be redirected to where it...belongs!:rcf-rich:

 

Of course it did. So do you want to name who is pulling his strings? Of course, if that's the case, he shouldn't be in parliament, let alone deputy prime-minister. The blame belongs with WP for going along with that and not what is or was best for racing, or the taxpayer for that matter. Seems like you agree.

Do you think the same person might have suggested he get Messara to write or at least sign off the report?

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