JJ Flash

NZ Cup

27 posts in this topic

Star Galleria out and now being set for Interdoms. Tony H will no doubt be now on one of AS team

Ashburton cans an intermediate race and results in  AS barn having with 7 of the 11 acceptors in Ashburton Flying Stakes. Some sort of record surely although Cruz Bromac has literally just arrived at their stable.

Pretty sure Monday's event will play a big part in working out whose the likely cup fav so it will be a great race no matter who gets the chocolates

 

greg

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Unfortunately the Ashburton Flying stakes has become a farce this year and the NZ cup will be one of the biggest non events. How can you get excited by one stable having 7 of the 11 horses in a race.

Time to sort this out once and for all.

Limit numbers one stable can have in a race.

We've been saying for other trainers to up their game. But simple facts are you can't beat them. Not with so many horses in one race. Should be 2 max 

If owners want their horse to start in these races then they simply have to send them to other trainers.

I know someone will say I'm All Star bashing but it will be the demise of our industry or it already is! 

There's 50 k up for grabs here. Post the cheques out now. It will be a miracle if anyone else's gets some of the pie.

I'm guessing a 53 last half

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9 minutes ago, yorky said:

7 horses from all stars owned by at least 7 or more different owners all hoping for the thick end of the stakes.and thats okay with me.

Thats the way most sensible people see it Yorky .DKC sees it otherwise and he is perfectly entitled to his view but all im looking for is an exciting race and pointers towards this years Cup winner.

Mick make comments about AS team driving being a nonsense on last weeks Box Seat. Given they dont even look at each other in a race let alone talk and Mark and Nat offer no instructions pre race its hard to see how it can occur in any race let alone one with a 50K stake. Envy and conspiracy theories will no doubt continue to abound especially elsewhere.

1 hour ago, dkc said:

 

 

Greg

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1 hour ago, dkc said:

Unfortunately the Ashburton Flying stakes has become a farce this year and the NZ cup will be one of the biggest non events. How can you get excited by one stable having 7 of the 11 horses in a race.

Time to sort this out once and for all.

Limit numbers one stable can have in a race.

We've been saying for other trainers to up their game. But simple facts are you can't beat them. Not with so many horses in one race. Should be 2 max 

If owners want their horse to start in these races then they simply have to send them to other trainers.

I know someone will say I'm All Star bashing but it will be the demise of our industry or it already is! 

There's 50 k up for grabs here. Post the cheques out now. It will be a miracle if anyone else's gets some of the pie.

I'm guessing a 53 last half

 

So you wont be watching it then DKC which is your choice entirely.

Your 2 horse limit would see this years race being run with 6 starters- that makes a lot of sense and appeal- not

Since when should you or anyone else decide where owners send their horses that they own and pay the upkeep for.

You say you are not but your post has a massive anti AS  slant to it. Im ok with that attitude as your not alone but please just say so

 

Greg

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Not anti all stars at all. In fact they have to be admired.

In the United States a trainer is only allowed 2 horse in a race which I think is a great idea. Think if that was the case we wouldn't have the exodus of better class horses to Aus or USA. 

If this happened then they would have to decide on what horses they wanted to keep. You would find the Regan Todd's, Steve McRaes, Mark Jones etc would have a cup runner.

Say if Spankem leads in the cup I bet that he will only hand to one of his stables mates. Do you really think the lead will be there for anyone else. And if he does hand up to a stable mate then the lead will not be there for anyone else.

But no that's not team driving!

 

 

 

 

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28 minutes ago, dkc said:

 

In the United States a trainer is only allowed 2 horse in a race which I think is a great idea. Think if that was the case we wouldn't have the exodus of better class horses to Aus or USA. 

If this happened then they would have to decide on what horses they wanted to keep. You would find the Regan Todd's, Steve McRaes, Mark Jones etc would have a cup runner.

Say if Spankem leads in the cup I bet that he will only hand to one of his stables mates. Do you really think the lead will be there for anyone else. And if he does hand up to a stable mate then the lead will not be there for anyone else.

But no that's not team driving!

 

1. What does what the US do have to do with NZ? They race over a mile and have (usually) fields of 8 horses. Why is there not the same hue and cry whenever Emma Stewart has 5 in a race in Australia?(good old tall poppy syndrome - the other sight is full of that)

2. Why should owners not have the right to have their horses with whatever trainer they want - I think everyone recognises that Purdon/Ras are leagues ahead of the others.

3. Did Mark hand up to Chase Auckland in the Metven Cup? Why would any of the Allstars horses want to hand up to inferior horses. Yes they know IF they hand up to a stablemate at least that said horse will give them a good trail and not be found gasping with 400m to run. Being sensible is not team driving.

 

 

 

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DKC I gather you would not be a chris waller fan either!! get used to it as the good trainers are always going to get the " flying machines ", more and more as fees become higher and stakes go south. every owner wants the best of the best to train their very expensive horses. at least we know you horses will not be trained by all stars & waller etc. good luck .

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Your right. This industry needs young blood and supporting young trainers is the only way this industry is going to survive. I think Mark Purdon is a brilliant trainer but I will continue to support the up and comers.

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When you have to race 7 horses from one stable and Addington charge you to start in group races it is the sensible option for horse, owner and trainer.

I'm sure the ten percent will be very helpful for Nigel given the current debacle that is on going.

 

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4 hours ago, JJ Flash said:

Grand Chico apparently off to WA, a good move or another owner throwing in the white towel?

 

Greg

Good move. He is a useful horse but not top drawer and will struggle in Cup class here. He should suit WA racing.

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3 hours ago, Boss Hogg said:

Hi guys Im sure you could help having an argument with a mate, I said the NZ Trotting Cup used to be run on the same day as the Melbourne Cup and was changed late 70's to the week later the old brain is getting foggy Cheers BH

Boss, I am not sure how it worked but the Cup used to be run on a different Tuesday to the MC, but did clash from time to time until changed to the second Tuesday in November. Someone else may know exactly how it worked.

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3 hours ago, Boss Hogg said:

Hi guys Im sure you could help having an argument with a mate, I said the NZ Trotting Cup used to be run on the same day as the Melbourne Cup and was changed late 70's to the week later the old brain is getting foggy Cheers BH

You're sort of right.

Every now and then they were the same day I recall at least twice being on course when it happened...once was when Tawriffic won the Melbourne Cup in 1989 and the other 1995 when Doriemus won the MC.

Both times the races were on the 7th November...for some reason the Melbourne Cup wasn't on the 1st

It was a real pain for the TAB when it happened so I think they changed the definition of when the NZ Cup was run to avoid any future clash.

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Thanks Bruce I was telling a brilliant story about the Melbourne Cup and the NZ Trotting Cup and how my mate backed Piping lane and the Trotting cup was on the same day and were laughed at for such a stupid story .I started to think maybe my memory is going blurry  CheersBH

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5 hours ago, Stables said:

My whole purpose in racing horses is to get them sold oversaes. No matter how good you think your horse is, Purdons got one better

Kiwis have been livestock traders since the first frozen sheep meat left Dunedin a century ago so your not doing anything unusual Stables. Good luck with your trading and i wonder if the AS barn rejoice every time a NZ trainer chucks the towel in for his 10%, probably not and as im not connected to stable ill never know

 

Greg

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I'm thinking that NZ Cup should have a name change since can anyone really believe it and the Dominion are attractive options for owners of NI horses? The costs to the owners are so high (paying 30%+ of the stakes) that if you don't have a horse that you are certain can get in the 1st 3, you are better off to stay at home.

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12 hours ago, Boss Hogg said:

Hi guys Im sure you could help having an argument with a mate, I said the NZ Trotting Cup used to be run on the same day as the Melbourne Cup and was changed late 70's to the week later the old brain is getting foggy Cheers BH

The two Cups used to clash every seven years or so. I can recall being at Addington the year that Black Knight won the Melbourne Cup. Obviously it didn't help turnover so about 20 years or so ago it was changed so that NZ Cup week is always the week after Melbourne Cup week.

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On 10/23/2019 at 5:26 PM, yorky said:

DKC I gather you would not be a chris waller fan either!! get used to it as the good trainers are always going to get the " flying machines ", more and more as fees become higher and stakes go south. every owner wants the best of the best to train their very expensive horses. at least we know you horses will not be trained by all stars & waller etc. good luck .

As you state, Waller often has about 75% of the starters in staying races in Sydney.

It is obviously not a good look, one trainer having most of the starters in a race like the flying stakes, but surely the problem isn't with one trainer being too good, the problem is with the other trainers not being competitive. Some of you almost seem to be suggesting a dominant trainer needs to be handicapped somehow to give the others a chance. Perhaps the All Stars horses should all have to start 20 metres behind..

Over the years there has often been one trainer that dominates for a period in Canterbury, for various reasons, it is just unusual that this period of dominance seems to have lasted longer than most.

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