Baz (NZ) 1,722 Report post Posted October 20, 2019 Doesn't apply to Ellerslie's times? Gruff 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruff 2,790 Report post Posted October 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Baz (NZ) said: Doesn't apply to Ellerslie's times? The High regards time was run on the inside course Baz ,and Bonecrusher held one in there as well as a 2yo over a distance around 820 from memory ?.Some slick times in there but Catarmarcas 880 was special. 43.6 800m , Which would equate to a 54.4 1000m .. I think Mr Illusion held the 1000 record at around 54.7 in the 80s as well .. then heres a steeplechase time ran by Classen that looked unbeatable during an unusually dry spell in winter years ago.... Hard to argue those figures Baz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy 4,076 Report post Posted October 20, 2019 And here's the current North American records. Many from the 90's and prior. Dirt Course Distance Horse Age Weight Time* Track Date Two Furlongs Winning Brew 2 119 :20.57 Penn National May 14, 2008 Two and One Half Furlongs Bedazzle Seattle 6 115 :25.83 Delta Downs March 15, 2014 Three Furlongs Eclat 5 123 :31.01 Remington Park Nov 28, 2005 Three And One Half Furlongs Officer's Charm 5 122 :37.39 Northlands Park May 1, 2015 Four Furlongs Oklahoma Natural 11 120 :43.20 Fair Meadows Jul 28, 2012 Four And One Half Furlongs Motivo 5 118 :49.00 Yavapai Downs Sep 5, 2006 King Justin 6 118 :49.00 Yavapai Downs Jun 2, 2007 Five Furlongs Chinook Pass 3 113 :55.⅕ Longacres Sep 17, 1982 Five And One Half Furlongs Hollywood Harbor 5 118 1:00.87 Emerald Downs Apr 22, 2012 Six Furlongs Twin Sparks 6 114 1:06.49 Turf Paradise Nov 21, 2009 Six And One Half Furlongs I Keep Saying 5 124 1:12.94 Emerald Downs July 27, 2014 Seven Furlongs Rich Cream 5 118 1:19.⅖ Hollywood Park May 28, 1980 Time to Explode 3 117 1:19.⅖ Hollywood Park Jun 26, 1982 Seven And One Half Furlongs Awesome Daze 5 119 1:26.26 Hollywood Park Nov 23, 1997 One Mile Dr. Fager 4 134 1:32.⅕ Arlington Aug 24, 1968 Najran 4 113 1:32.24 Belmont Park May 7, 2003 One Mile And Forty Yards Zafarrancho (ARG) 5 112 1:38.⅕ Rockingham Park Jun 19, 1987 One Mile And Seventy Yards Schedule (GB) 3 115 1:37.90 Meadowlands Oct 15, 2004 With Probability 4 119 1:37.90 Meadowlands Oct 28, 2005 One And One Sixteenth Miles Hoedown's Day 5 119 1:38.⅖ Bay Meadows Oct 23, 1983 One And One Eighth Miles Simply Majestic 4 114 1:45.00 Golden Gate Fields Apr 2, 1988 One And Three Sixteenth Miles Riva Ridge 4 127 1:52.⅖ Aqueduct Jul 4, 1973 Farma Way 4 119 1:52.55 Pimlico May 11, 1991 One And One Fourth Miles Spectacular Bid 4 126 1:57.⅘ Santa Anita Park Feb 3, 1980 One And Five Sixteenth Miles Gold Star Deputy 5 116 2:07.32 Aqueduct Apr 10, 1999 One And Three Eighth Miles Demi's Bret 4 116 2:12.31 Aqueduct Oct 26, 1997 One And Seven Sixteenth Miles Who's in Command 5 111 2:23.00 Exhibition Park Aug 10, 1987 One And One Half Miles Secretariat 3 126 2:24.00 Belmont Park Jun 9, 1973 One And Nine Sixteenth Miles Well Lit 5 120 2:35.77 Sportsman's Park Apr 25, 1992 One And Five Eighth Miles Swaps 4 130 2:38.⅕ Hollywood Park Jul 25, 1956 One And Three Fourth Miles Paper Junction 4 123 2:50.40 Lincoln Race Course Nov 10, 1985 One And Seven Eighth Miles Asserche 6 123 3:11.56 Laurel Park Mar 20, 1994 Two Miles Kelso 7 124 3:19.⅕ Aqueduct Oct 31, 1964 Turf Course : Distance Horse Age Weight Time* Track Date Four And One Half Furlongs Red Dwarf 6 120 :48.96 Mountaineer Sep 30, 2013 Five Furlongs Pay Any Price 7 116 :53.61 Gulfstream Park Mar 11, 2017 Five And One Half Furlongs Carotari 3 120 1:00.21 Saratoga Aug 17, 2019 Six Furlongs Disco Partner 5 122 1:05.67 Belmont Park Jun 10, 2017 Six And One Half Furlongs Queen Del Valle 3 116 1:12.93 Woodbine Jun 11, 2017 Seven Furlongs Silent Poet 4 117 1:19.22 Woodbine Aug 24, 2019 Seven And One Half Furlongs A Diehl 7 119 1:25.15 Indiana Downs May 7, 2012 One Mile Mandurah 6 117 1:31.23 Monmouth Park Jun 6, 2010 Oscar Performance 4 124 1:31.23 Belmont Park Jun 17, 2018 One Mile And Forty Yards Castaneto (ARG) 7 115 1:38.08 Atlantic City Jun 28, 1991 One Mile And Seventy Yards Aborigine 6 119 1:37 1/5 Penn National Aug 20, 1978 One And One Sixteenth Miles Told 4 123 1:38 Penn National Sep 14, 1980 One And One Eighth Miles Kostroma (IRE) 5 117 1:43.92 Santa Anita Park Oct 20, 1991 One And Three Sixteenth Miles Toonerville 4 120 1:51 2/5 Hialeah Park Feb 7, 1976 One And One Fourth Miles Red Giant 4 124 1:57.16 Oak Tree at Santa Anita Sep 27, 2008 One And Five Sixteenth Miles Ruff Mack 5 114 2:06 4/5 Waterford Park Aug 25, 1962 One And Three Eighth Miles With Approval (ON) 4 118 2:10.26 Belmont Park Jun 17, 1990 One And Seven Sixteenth Miles Giant Hope 4 120 2:17.64 Gulfstream Park Mar 12, 2006 One And One Half Miles Twilight Eclipse 4 123 2:22.63 Gulfstream Park Mar 23, 2013 One And Five Eighth Miles Tom Swift 5 110 2:37 Saratoga Aug 23, 1978 One And Three Fourth Miles Inaugural Address 6 121 2:53.35 Mountaineer Aug 15, 2005 One and Seven Eighth Miles Code's Best 6 121 3:08.23 Mountaineer Sep 4, 2000 Two Miles Call To Mind (GB) 4 115 3:16:78 Belmont Park Jun 8, 2018 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam Robson 1,547 Report post Posted October 20, 2019 Thick I obviously am...but i cant decipher one side of that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruff 2,790 Report post Posted October 20, 2019 20 minutes ago, Pam Robson said: Thick I obviously am...but i cant decipher one side of that. One furlong is 201 metres and a mile is 1609 m seven sixteenth of a mile ( 7/16 ) or 700/1600 which gives you the metres ..700 aprox ,so 1 mile and 7/16 is 2300m aprox 7/8 of a mile.... You know a mile is 1600 m (aprox) so the 8 represents this....8x 200 is 1600 m so each unit represrnts 200m so the 7 is 1400 m . probably not the best way to break it down but you can do it without a calculator If your comparing times from other tracks just divide the distance by the time and multiply or divide depending on which distance is greater, brilliant for greyhounds where there is no mention of metres per second example Diamond lovers 1.07.7 1200m High regards 1.14.4 1300m 1300 divided by 1200 is 1.083333 so 1.14.4 (74.4 seconds) divided by 1.08333 Is 68 .67 or 1.08.67 ...just under 1 sec slower than Diamond lover ( although an extra 100 m , so only a gauge) Form 1 ( year ?) Math but has its place allowances obviously between different tracks depending on topography and circuit nature... works brilliant punting dishlickers as there are mostly different distances on every circuit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam Robson 1,547 Report post Posted October 20, 2019 Would it help if i turned the page sideways? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam Robson 1,547 Report post Posted October 20, 2019 Btw i am well aware that a mile is 1609 m....and 7/8 is seven furlongs or 1400m ( approx) . If i want to work out times over different distances i can do that too without difficulty. But i still can't make head or tail of the script. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam Robson 1,547 Report post Posted October 20, 2019 Turned the page sideways....ffs Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berri 2,131 Report post Posted October 20, 2019 Almost impossible for the times to be faster overall. Tracks never used to get watered within an inch of their lives and had people who knew about racing surfaces looking after those surfaces, horses used to be drugged far more often, jockeys used to starve/ drug/ exercise themselves to make the weights which were on a lower scale, and technology meant that no one could cheat the real time. Add to that the fact that many courses' distances weren't properly accurate and you've got a lot against faster times. Then you've got the unfortunate process of racing greed where the demand for quicker returns is steering us towards 2 and three year old racing. Horses don't really mature until they are 4-5 so pushing these animals earlier is detrimental to creating optimal speed at a later age. A big study was done on this in Japan in the early 2000's. This is what they found You've got to admire the stand out performance in those lists though and that is Dr Fager's Metropolitan Mile win in 1.32 and 1/5th carrying 134lbs (60kgs). That was some run and was a World record at the time. But you've got to remember that in the US they run 20m before the timer starts. The fastest speed for any horse was recorded in 2008 where the filly Winning Brew ran 70.76kph or 20.57 seconds over 402m (let's round it off). So over the distances the equivalent would be: 1000 51.43 1200 1.01.71 1400 1.11.99 1600 1.22.27 2000 1.42.85 2400 2.03.42 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruff 2,790 Report post Posted October 20, 2019 Remember Better loosen ups Cox plate in 90,Stylish Century went like last weeks pay and set up the 2040 races best time 2.01.5 (1.59.1 ) The horse went on to win the Japan Cup .What does a horse like Winx do given a similar scenario? Stylish Centurys beaten time bettered Winxs best mark id say, and Solvit, The phantom chance and Better loosen ups marks all better than anything in the last 20 plus years, whether any track surface upgrade has been an influence i dont know although the standard for 2500m is comparable Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam Robson 1,547 Report post Posted October 20, 2019 1 hour ago, poundforpound said: Animal production systems require the removal of environmental factors ( or exact environmental factors replicated across the species ) and the selection of breeding partners based on specific criteria to improve the breed....and that means scientifically measurable criteria, as in pig or chicken systems where the measure is kilos gained per kilo of food consumed, or soft tissue to bone ratio at say 20 weeks of age ( I’m trying to remember this shit from Uni 30 years ago ), anyway the thing with thoroughbreds is that we have no standardized environmental conditions and we’re breeding using very subjective criteria that differs from country to country. I’d have thought Japan is worth looking at because they’re doing something right given that 30 years ago the thoroughbred world was laughing at them, but now they seem to have a plethora of sound fast good actioned stayers The other consideration is that the TB breed might be maxed out, it can’t get any better, or faster, because the criteria we’ve used for selection has ignored vulnerabilities like bone density and the breed has become self limiting because of fragile genes we’ve deliberately selected Just my rambling thoughts, feel free to crucify me All of the above [ IMHO] I recall an owner of mine commenting about Japanese racing when Yamanin Vital was re-imported to stand at White Robe. She said 'do you realise that this horse broke 2 min for 2000m ? and he certainly wasn't one of their good ones, far from it ' . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam Robson 1,547 Report post Posted October 20, 2019 ..and the fashion of breeding for the salering/dollar as opposed to strictly culling inferior types can't be helping either. Even German sporthorse stallions are subjected to a more stringent testing regime than are thoroughbreds generally. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruff 2,790 Report post Posted October 23, 2019 On 10/21/2019 at 10:34 AM, Pam Robson said: All of the above [ IMHO] I recall an owner of mine commenting about Japanese racing when Yamanin Vital was re-imported to stand at White Robe. She said 'do you realise that this horse broke 2 min for 2000m ? and he certainly wasn't one of their good ones, far from it ' . The Two minute mark has been pushed by a few donkeys here as well , and even by a few at Thames Pammie, and talking Good ones Pop rock and delta Blies didnt rate either. Love this game Pam Robson 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
