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John Allen

105 posts in this topic

On 9/23/2019 at 2:01 PM, Leggy said:

haha ... you reckon punters will be willing to lose as much on 1000 domestic races as 3000? Someone spike your coffee or did you forget to take your meds again?

Its actually possible they will and it's also likely on course attendance will boom if these remaining days are on tracks of a high standard offering a total day out and possibly an evening out .

We will be replacing 2000 no hoper costly races with Ausse racing , the profits on those 2000 Ausse races might be less than the local product but the costs associated with those 2000 dead duck races being held on crappy venues which no one goes to are substancial so the PROFITS from doing this exercise will be better .

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6 hours ago, tripple alliance said:

Its actually possible they will and it's also likely on course attendance will boom if these remaining days are on tracks of a high standard offering a total day out and possibly an evening out .

We will be replacing 2000 no hoper costly races with Ausse racing , the profits on those 2000 Ausse races might be less than the local product but the costs associated with those 2000 dead duck races being held on crappy venues which no one goes to are substancial so the PROFITS from doing this exercise will be better .

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Cambridge - Training/Trials/Weekend/Premier Racing Only


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Tauranga - Training/Weekend/Premier Racing Only

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14 hours ago, tripple alliance said:

Its actually possible they will and it's also likely on course attendance will boom if these remaining days are on tracks of a high standard offering a total day out and possibly an evening out .

We will be replacing 2000 no hoper costly races with Ausse racing , the profits on those 2000 Ausse races might be less than the local product but the costs associated with those 2000 dead duck races being held on crappy venues which no one goes to are substancial so the PROFITS from doing this exercise will be better .

On course attendance won't boom, especially when they are taking away a lot of the race days the public want to attend and replacing them with the same old dross, what you will find(and its happening now) is less race days than there is now and an even more confusing and ill thought out calendar and interest will continue to wane amongst the public,punters and owners you still need a very strong salable local product if the sport is to prosper locally and stop depending on Aus racing as a crutch for local racing.

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All you guys and gals seem to be short sighted in respect of a milestone and priority based industry initiative. We have problems with horse slippage on race tracks during racing. Cancellations have cost a pretty penny. The training tracks are also stuffed.  We have got to the critical mass of horse numbers that is the convergence between the lack of productivity, (horse numbers to sustain racing as we knew it), decreasing returns in terms of brand success (NZ horses being the best) and emasculation of racing related betting volumes and returns. All of this leads to a decrease in interest and relevance.

The major issue is that we are not relevant any longer. The greenies are pushing for bans, the animal welfare mob are citing cruelty, and on a very simplified level, people are getting further away from horses because they actually can't get involved due to decreased access to the horse itself.

Doesn't paint a pretty picture really and if you weren't emotionally involved, as a newbie risk analyst, you'd say shut the door....it cant work like it used to.

Or you could start to address what we want to see racing look like in 20-50 years time and run milestone priority based initiatives. So if we were to close race tracks to support a redefined model, what should that look like? Will replacing one failure model with a version of the same create the change needed to be relevant in 20-50 years time? So is taking a Cambridge and a Te Rapa and creating a similar version of that with a brand new coffin called a grandstand, going to produce the right change? Yeah?..... Naaaaaah!!!

There is a hit and miss approach of "not in my backyard". We are going to fail if our leadership (on all levels) doesn't become coordinated. 

https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/racing/116022322/pukekohe-park-warns-of-precarious-prospects-while-horseracing-venues-future-also-in-doubt

We continue to lurch from one disaster to another and don't react in any other manner apart from under duress. The likes of Alan Jackson and Bernard Saundry doing the right job?

My response would be that we need to plan what do we want to see in 20-50 years and then work backwards. I could dream of a new racing/ equestrian town. I could dream of three new race courses with different characteristics, and a fantastic showjumping, dressage and three day eventing system. 3-4000 state of the art houses and stables (that's where the money underwrite sits) and a vet / research/ education and teaching facilities  surrounded by 2-3000 hectares of training tracks, equine sports facilities and parks. I(t should be developed for people who love horses and want to be near or part of them. That should be times 3 for the other regions in NZ. None of the existing racecourses need to move out of racing's ownership because the rewards and returns by managing real estate well are evident as real estate companies are prospering worldwide. Don't sell them off....manage them well for whatever activity is best for the club and the people. New Zealand grew by 500,000 people over the last decade. Doesn't even mean that you need to close the racetrack. You just have to get the management right. They all don't have to be champion race tracks but act as members of a much larger orchestra.

The betting opportunities should be anything goes as long as the industry templates have been standardised allowing the industry to prosper. We don't need to keep thinking we need to spend capex to make systems. If something new...then maybe. If something existing then let's leverage the opportunity the best way possible.

Technology is creating an event in yachting. Why not in racing? Did you see the newly released multiple camera generated footage presented by Cannon in the aftermath of the recent All Blacks match?  And what do people want for entertainment? Has cricket stayed the same? Yachting? Rugby? Why are we so caught up with the World Cup, or the Olympics...or dare I say it Australian racing? We've lost the DNA of our platforms and we're not intelligent enough (or too polarised) to react appropriately to a horizontal and impending disaster!!!

Only idiots think that by doing the same thing, change will occur.....

 

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On 9/18/2019 at 10:19 AM, Berri said:

The problem that we have had is that successive boards and the CEO's have each contributed to the degradation of the industry. One mob turned down the lotteries contract. Chittick's mob changed the Act taking away the rights for clubs to operate their own tote's and eliminating the racing industry's claim to the tote ownership. One tried to build a new tote (Typhoon) when they were told it wouldn't work. One spent a whole lot of cash (Fair Tax) on a non sustainable model promoted by the breeders. This latest mob developed a platform without understanding either betting, technology or the correct value of a commercial betting contract.

Successive governments have been slowly strangling the industry through inept governmental legislation. Successive boards have appointed CEO's with no/ very little experience in horses, betting, technology and gaming. This has led to indecisive and ill informed decision making.

The problem that you have is that the formal/ governance/ certification/ due diligence process required by government (DIA in particular) decrease the gain of the appointment filter where the right people/ person to help can't be appointed due to governmental process.

The same could be said for the NZTR but this is less a government issue and more of an internal appointment structure. The continued staggering of appointmental process promotes a legacy model where successive board membership needs to meet the approval of incumbent appointees, which promotes nepotism. To break that cycle is difficult. The only way to do that is to change the process.

This is a very relevant posting. A succession of boards have contributed to the demise of racing starting with the declining of the Lotteries contract. This decision was probably made with no Risk assessment of the opportunities for our industry The TAB had an existing computer network infrastructure and it would have been an expansion of business with lotto patrons placing their money in TAB shops.

Imagine  the exposure that racing would have today if the TAB had approved this government invitation to be involved with thousands of NZers flocking into TAB agencies every day. Small sightless with  long term industry implications and losses.

i was on a metropolitan racing club board at the time of this decision re Lotto and I raised my disappointment at a board meeting. I was the only dissenting voice at that time. Yet many years later the TAB is running sports betting.

i have been a long term proponent of the TAB joining with Lotto NZ to run a sweepstake on the Melbourne Cup. I have raised this at several industry meetings including one last December at Te Rapa where John Allen said that it would be considered. Probably never been considered at all. Many NZ business run a sweepstake on the Melbourne Cup so why not add to this opportunity for racing to run one nationally with Lotto.

Fonterra is an organisation with major problems and it is addressing this presently starting with re-reviewing its business strategies which will involve massive changes.  Racing leaders - RITA should study what Fonterra is doing and follow a similar path . Sadly time is against racing.

 

 

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Obviously not embracing Lotto a huge mistake.

But I guess racing/TAB considered itself to be on right track and travelling OK in mid 80's. Probably saw Lotto as a poor relation , and a threat 

A recent documentary on the history of Rugby told how the folk that ran it insisted on staying amateur thru thick and thin....thru the emergence of League ,NFL ,AFL and of course Football and they weren't jolted out of it until a serious threat took them on head on !

How things have changed !

Lesson....even when you are on the right track you can still get run over if you don't keep moving !

NZ Racing is a sick puppy !

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On 9/25/2019 at 8:28 AM, Huey said:

On course attendance won't boom, especially when they are taking away a lot of the race days the public want to attend and replacing them with the same old dross, what you will find(and its happening now) is less race days than there is now and an even more confusing and ill thought out calendar and interest will continue to wane amongst the public,punters and owners you still need a very strong salable local product if the sport is to prosper locally and stop depending on Aus racing as a crutch for local racing.

Attendance will boom if the quality of racing and facility's are up to a modern day standard and  the tracks are located where the people are , add to that stakes that are strong , plenty of promotion and it will happen .  

Treat racing like a rugby test match every weekend , that's impossible today , the facility's simply aren't good enough at MOST tracks but with a serious upgrade it will happen . Here's an  obvious problem for people like me , it costs me at least $70/$80 in travelling expenses just to get most tracks , I'm not to far from a track that would remain , $25 will get me there and back , so more close to where the people are racing will see me and many others on course more often .

 

 

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On 9/25/2019 at 10:17 AM, LightsOut said:

Cutting the number of overpaid and under performing staff at the Racing Board by 2/3rd's might actually be more prudent financially for the Industry than reducing the number of races held by 2/3rd's. 

Some cuts could  help as long as performance isn't made even worse and it might make some of you feel better but I doubt it will make any real difference to stakes , the former RB covered all 3 codes so any saving will be split between the 3 codes ,  TB racing might/might not  be slightly better off but no bonanza .

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4 minutes ago, tripple alliance said:

Attendance will boom if the quality of racing and facility's are up to a modern day standard and  the tracks are located where the people are , add to that stakes that are strong , plenty of promotion and it will happen .  

Treat racing like a rugby test match every weekend , that's impossible today , the facility's simply aren't good enough at MOST tracks but with a serious upgrade it will happen . Here's an  obvious problem for people like me , it costs me at least $70/$80 in travelling expenses just to get most tracks , I'm not to far from a track that would remain , $25 will get me there and back , so more close to where the people are racing will see me and many others on course more often .

 

 

Sadly, I don't think there is any evidence to support the argument in your first sentence. Some of the biggest attendances each year are at the likes of Kumara, Kaikoura, Cromwell, Tauherenikau etc. All tracks that have relatively poor facilities, average fields at best in some cases, and are located near no large population centres.

On the other hand some of the tracks with the best facilities, reasonably good fields, and that are located in large population centres, do very poorly: namely Ellerslie, Te Rapa, Trentham, Riccarton (yes, I know they don't have any public facilities).

I was at Hastings a week or so ago to see Melody Belle win. The facilities haven't changed much since I was last there about 30 years ago, but they are reasonably clean and tidy and it is a nice enough racecourse where you can park close to the stands and take in your own bottle of wine. The track was good, the weather was fine and warm, and the racing was reasonable, highlighted by a $200,000 group one race with a superstar race horse: but really, there were very few people there and very little atmosphere, despite Andre's best efforts to make it sound exciting. There were probably no more than 40 odd people watching the races from the public grandstand.

Unfortunately there is very little interest in NZ Racing and no matter what the industry does to try and attract people it is easier for genuine punters to watch the races at home on TV, and increasingly those punters are betting on Australian racing. The "extra" people that are attracted to some meeting by promotions etc are generally the party types, which in many cases detract from the experience for regular racegoers, although it is certainly great to have some atmosphere at a race-meeting. 

I don't want to sound negative, but racing is in decline and will never return to the days of old when it ruled the gambling and entertainment world. We have to be realistic and make the best of what we have. How we go about that is the big question.

The trouble with having many years of non-racing outsiders in key positions is that they have been unable to ensure we continue to get the basics right and make the most of our strengths. There are many examples of the basics and strengths that should still be priorities, but they hardly ever get mentioned on here and never seem to be a focus of those running the show (into the ground).

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The NZRB can easily absorb a reduced numbers of employees however the NZ Racing Industry can't afford stagnant or reduced stake money. Some where along the way unfortunately the NZRB got lost in what their actual purpose to exist is. Hopefully RITA will cut the place to the bone as that will be the first step to proving to the Industry they are on the right track. 

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8 minutes ago, LightsOut said:

however the NZ Racing Industry can't afford stagnant or reduced stake money. Some where along the way unfortunately the NZRB got lost in what their actual purpose to exist is. Hopefully RITA will cut the place to the bone as that will be the first step to proving to the Industry they are on the right track. 

You seem to be confusing former nzrb with nzta and their accountability . As for this '' The NZRB can easily absorb a reduced numbers of employees  '' we will never know if that was realistic but change is here , time will tell if we are better off or not . 

Delays in implementing strategy's are proving costly with JAs betting info charge still waiting to be put in place , Information Use Charges agreements  should be bringing in $250,000 every week , it's hasn't even started yet so who's to blame for that delay . 

Reading a couple of articles today it seems Winston is going into panic mode on several fronts , racing included and reading the Optimist seems to confirm this so there is a real chance NOTHING of any real importance will be achieved before the next election campaign starts .

 

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Nothing you have ever quoted has ever been correct. Your best call was John Allen will still be there in 12 months so that actually makes your other early crows look laughable.

Once again I think your horribly out of touch with reality when you say nothing of importance will happen before the next election. Something big is about to happen, watch this space. 

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42 minutes ago, LightsOut said:

The NZRB can easily absorb a reduced numbers of employees however the NZ Racing Industry can't afford stagnant or reduced stake money. Some where along the way unfortunately the NZRB got lost in what their actual purpose to exist is. Hopefully RITA will cut the place to the bone as that will be the first step to proving to the Industry they are on the right track. 

Haven't shown any indication of that yet.

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7 minutes ago, LightsOut said:

Nothing you have ever quoted has ever been correct. Your best call was John Allen will still be there in 12 months so that actually makes your other early crows look laughable.

Once again I think your horribly out of touch with reality when you say nothing of importance will happen before the next election. Something big is about to happen, watch this space. 

There you go again , read what I posted , at least quote me accurately .

15 minutes ago, tripple alliance said:

a real chance NOTHING of any real importance will be achieved before the next election campaign starts .

And something BIG will only be the trebling of stakes , nothing else counts .

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No your correct PR but can you imagine the task they have going through non transparency over years of totally incompetent management. Then on top of that the red tape to go through to make things happen. Years of poor management won't take days to right but hopefully it will only be a few months. Hang in there PA hopefully soon you will feel more positive about the Industry.        

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John Allen please explain....

tripple alliance replied to LightsOut's topic in Thoroughbred Cafe

Restructuring the RB is a done deal but basically a zero rated result , the RB had about 6/7 on the board , RITA has , I think 7 so in terms of savings not a hell of a lot . Only time will tell what happens about the 700 staff remaining but Allen thinks they are likely here to stay and we know HE IS HERE TO STAY , that will surprise many . 

Nothing you have ever quoted has ever been correct. Your best call was John Allen will still be there in 12 months so that actually makes your other early crows look laughable.

Once again I think your horribly out of touch with reality when you say nothing of importance will happen before the next election. Something big is about to happen, watch this space. 

There you go again , read what I posted , at least quote me accurately.

That seems pretty accurate to me.  I was actually been kind to you by calculating your HE IS HERE TO STAY at only 12 months. Here to stay implies he isn't going anywhere. Just put your hand up and say you made a shocking and now proven to be a very bad and uneducated call.   

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1 hour ago, LightsOut said:

Nothing you have ever quoted has ever been correct. Your best call was John Allen will still be there in 12 months so that actually makes your other early crows look laughable.

Once again I think your horribly out of touch with reality when you say nothing of importance will happen before the next election. Something big is about to happen, watch this space. 

There you go again , read what I posted , at least quote me accurately.

That seems pretty accurate to me.  I was actually been kind to you by calculating your HE IS HERE TO STAY at only 12 months. Here to stay implies he isn't going anywhere. Just put your hand up and say you made a shocking and now proven to be a very bad and uneducated call.   

Ha Ha , clearly it was his choice to depart , if he had chosen to stay he would have stayed , nobody forced him to go , he is leaving on his own terms , that's why he is here until Christmas . 

He is here to stay , I could have added ,  UNTIL HE CHOOSES TO GO , hardly a win for those who think any one person is to blame for racings current predicament . 

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6 hours ago, tripple alliance said:

Ha Ha , clearly it was his choice to depart , if he had chosen to stay he would have stayed , nobody forced him to go , he is leaving on his own terms , that's why he is here until Christmas . 

thicker and a dreamer

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Not sure why so many of you are putting the boot into John Allen ... he worked within the law...he was constrained by the exact same limitations of his predecessors, as his successor will be... and you’ll be here abusing his replacement next year ... incorrectly.. again

As for reducing staff numbers at the NZRB ... maybe ... and if that is the best option then I’d start with one single question ... is the role of the subject staff member increasing NZ betting revenue or making racing better ?.... if the answer is no, you go 

 

 

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Not sure why so many of you are putting the boot into John Allen

Bottom line is the buck starts at the top, when you clean a place out you start at the top. I don't think anyone would argue JA never knew jack $#%& about racing and during his term as CEO never attempted to improve that knowledge. If he had of he wouldn't have come out with so much rubbish while looking so confused.

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5 hours ago, LightsOut said:

Bottom line is the buck starts at the top, when you clean a place out you start at the top. I don't think anyone would argue JA never knew jack $#%& about racing and during his term as CEO never attempted to improve that knowledge. If he had of he wouldn't have come out with so much rubbish while looking so confused.

Harsh....he might not have brought huge racing knowledge to the table on arrival....but he certainly tried his best to educate himself in racing matters, and he has a very keen mind, as those who’ve heard him speak will confirm....

Facts are good when you’re holding someone to account so brutally champ.

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On 9/30/2019 at 2:31 PM, LightsOut said:

Ha ha if you believe he went on his own accord you are thicker than I thought.

I would love to see YOUR PROOF he was pushed , if you can't provide it then the situation is what it is , he left on his own accord and until you have proof we will put it down to your personal dislike of the man and your imagination .

Let's face it , the position was a poisoned chalice , a bit like taking the helm of the Titanic after it hit the ice burg .

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