tasman man 11 979 Report post Posted September 18, 2019 7 hours ago, weasel57 said: many people at the coalface on the industry wer giving him 'the message' at various meetings around the country over the last three year...he put all his faith in the new FOB platform on account of the 'promised' revenue streams and allowed a $35m project blow out to $50m+ (with annual fees of $17m) ...it not only arrived months late (costing truckloads of lost income) but the loss of customers from poor TACustomer service attitudes/actions has cost the industry thousands of customers (= more lost $$$) ...and you reckon that's an example of doing your best? If that's the bbenchmark standard of leadership and competence you require from a man on $680k a year, no wonder the industry is suffering. . And what were those messages given from people at the coalface ? I went to a few of these meetings ,can't remember too many game-changing 'messages'. The last meeting I went to several wanted 'doubles' betting resuscitated !!! Bimbo and Phantom 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurnyTom 1,542 Report post Posted September 18, 2019 He is gone - celebrate drewandjo, LightsOut, 47South and 2 others 4 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohokaman 5,843 Report post Posted September 18, 2019 1 hour ago, We're Doomed said: So you do want the selected tracks to be in Auckland, Wgtn and ChCh. Good on you; it's time the Waikato was told they aren't needed anymore. Their contribution to NZ Racing is totally over-rated. That new synthetic track at Cambridge will be a waste of money then...... We're Doomed 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightsOut 486 Report post Posted September 18, 2019 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GwjfUFyY6M Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz (NZ) 1,722 Report post Posted September 18, 2019 24 minutes ago, Ohokaman said: That new synthetic track at Cambridge will be a waste of money then...... Yep agree...unless its a Strathayr grass surface . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gubellini 4,004 Report post Posted September 18, 2019 The John Allen comedy show continues to roll on. He is quoted in today’s Herald as saying when he retires “I think one one of the first things I will do is become a member of the Wellington Racing Club”. What’s stopping him from joining now? Perhaps he may even condescend to visit a TAB and place a bet in the new year. Baz (NZ) 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy 4,090 Report post Posted September 18, 2019 20 hours ago, poundforpound said: My point is this....you’re never satisfied, you level the same criticisms at every CEO....have you ever stopped to think that maybe the board structure is a dysfunctional ass, that maybe the legislation is unworkable, and that just maybe the industry is fucked, the model is broken, and NO ONE can fix it. True. The boards appointed them and then bought into their stupid ill-informed ideas. That doesn't mean that the string of CEOs' competence to perform the job was anywhere near adequate though. Agree with the last bit. RITA are on a hiding to nothing given the letter of instruction from the Minister. The situation is now intractable (fucked if you prefer). Phantom 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trump 2,741 Report post Posted September 18, 2019 25 minutes ago, gubellini said: The John Allen comedy show continues to roll on. He is quoted in today’s Herald as saying when he retires “I think one one of the first things I will do is become a member of the Wellington Racing Club”. What’s stopping him from joining now? Perhaps he may even condescend to visit a TAB and place a bet in the new year. Yes, I would think that a minimum prerequisite for being CEO is that you must be a member of a NZ Racing Club. Baz (NZ) 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy 4,090 Report post Posted September 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, Trump said: Yes, I would think that a minimum prerequisite for being CEO is that you must be a member of a NZ Racing Club. I think that would be a conflict of interest while employed in that role wouldn't it? Maximus and We're Doomed 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trump 2,741 Report post Posted September 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Leggy said: I think that would be a conflict of interest while employed in that role wouldn't it? That would be a bit PC I would have thought. Patiti 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
We're Doomed 4,868 Report post Posted September 18, 2019 10 hours ago, gubellini said: The John Allen comedy show continues to roll on. He is quoted in today’s Herald as saying when he retires “I think one one of the first things I will do is become a member of the Wellington Racing Club”. What’s stopping him from joining now? Perhaps he may even condescend to visit a TAB and place a bet in the new year. Perhaps an indication of his judgement that he would choose to join Wgtn. Phantom and Maximus 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy 4,090 Report post Posted September 18, 2019 16 hours ago, Patiti said: The delay could have cost a lot if it had performed up to expectations. The problem is that it is performing up to the expectations of many of us, including Deloitte's. The question now is what does RITA do about that? Phantom and Patiti 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tripple alliance 1,026 Report post Posted September 18, 2019 10 hours ago, Trump said: Yes, I would think that a minimum prerequisite for being CEO is that you must be a member of a NZ Racing Club. Wouldn't that have gone down well if he was a member of any club , I can hear the screams of favouritism now . Leggy 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohokaman 5,843 Report post Posted September 18, 2019 11 hours ago, gubellini said: The John Allen comedy show continues to roll on. He is quoted in today’s Herald as saying when he retires “I think one one of the first things I will do is become a member of the Wellington Racing Club”. What’s stopping him from joining now? Perhaps he may even condescend to visit a TAB and place a bet in the new year. Try the new website John...see how you get on..... LightsOut, Maximus, Insider and 2 others 2 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
slam dunk 1,317 Report post Posted September 20, 2019 On 9/18/2019 at 9:12 PM, gubellini said: The John Allen comedy show continues to roll on. He is quoted in today’s Herald as saying when he retires “I think one one of the first things I will do is become a member of the Wellington Racing Club”. What’s stopping him from joining now? Perhaps he may even condescend to visit a TAB and place a bet in the new year. Its already so hard and so slow placing a bet he will struggle. Probable opt for the easybet. Maximus and Baz (NZ) 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tripple alliance 1,026 Report post Posted September 21, 2019 On 9/18/2019 at 4:13 AM, LightsOut said: 700 still employed so shrink that by your 70% = 190 which equates to around Hedley's number of only needing around 190 employed. Individual NZ Racing Codes will take over racing and Industry responsibilities which will help reduce numbers. If Racing joins Sports and is outsourced that will help to reduce employment numbers. The purpose of RITA is to reform the Industry now not one day. Procrastination and management unable to forecast the changes needed to adapt to an ever changing market that is chasing the gambling dollar is why the Industry now struggles to perform. In order to return the figures needed today income needed to be in line with inflation rises each year but sadly the only figures rising were the costs to run the NZRB. The Industry didn't need an Empire to run the NZRB but unfortunately manager numbers now verse past numbers show Empire Building has been a major downfall. 50 plus years in existence operations should be streamlined and along with more modern technology staff numbers should have decreased. Phone bet employees are only hand full compared to past numbers and Agency's are near existent so employee numbers are down and sports trading is outsourced so numbers well down there also . So how can 700 still be employed? Hard to go from 700 to around 200 in a short period but unfortunately when you have no assets left and owe $20 million plus in overdraft and your $50 million dollar Industry life saver never delivered as promised its not had to see that there is only one option remaining. Codes take over there own marketing so huge staff reductions there. Race field fees won't make up the shortfalls needed to sink into a betting platform that in relation to cost to build and the ongoing updating and servicing yearly fees were too much for the Industry to absorb as advised by Deloittes would be the case. The NZRB never had the management knowledge and experience to commit the Industry to the tens of millions of development and future expense incurred that on paper couldn't return the figures required. NZTR spent $100,000 plus on that Deloitte Report on a business decision effecting all the codes and the tens of thousands who survive from it . The NZRB should have appointed Deloitte's to carry out the report then at least it could be shown they did seek a second opinion and they addressed areas of concern to make it a more practical proposal to put forward to the Industry. People lacking the knowledge needed argued the points of concern raised by Deloittes which have now proven to be correct as one would expect from a world rated powerhouse accounting firm. The two companies who were involved sold the platform to NZRB management who didn't have the business acumen needed in the largest expense ever undertaken by the TAB or NZRB . Those two companies only concern is returning a higher dividend to their Investors and to achieve that Industry concerns by Deloitte's would have been whitewashed and NZRB management advised we are right and they are wrong. The figures generated and given to the Industry in support of the new platform wouldn't have initially come from John Allen as he would have no idea so who put the figures together eg doubling customers and turnover increasing by tens of millions? If it was Paddy Power and Open Bet who sold the proposal to clueless management then they should be taken to task for failing to provide a system based on returned figures and profit as promised that it would return. If those two companies didn't promise the results forecast to be delivered the person or persons responsible needs to be taken to task for falsifying numbers to seal the deal to the Industry. John Allen did the correct thing by the Industry yesterday he cost the Industry each year $650,000, those in charge of the betting platform disaster make that look like pocket change in cost verse return thye need to also do the right thing. Something did change yesterday the CEO of the Industry resigned. You fail to back-up your own statements ' you say that one day you may get your wish but that will be when the Industry has shrunk by a good 60/70% and then you say the NZ can't sustain its Racing Industry in it's current form. If the Industry is going to shrink as you say by 60/70% you help to sustain it by cutting costs and obviously employee numbers need to be reduced now to factor in that shrinkage. Racing Codes are having their numbers reduced venue wise now to allow for shrinkage of public participation and overall Industry costs and as Hedley points out the same principal re NZRB employees needs to be applied to save a huge expense that has got out of hand. That's a very condescending and arrogant statement to make, that type of comment mirrors what i would expect to come from another quarter that is lacking in the required Industry experience and knowledge to be taken seriously. The majority of trainers are no doubt 50 plus and that's because its not financially viable for the younger generation to derive an income due to rising costs and lower returns to consider horse training as an employment opportunity. Many of those 50 year plus trainers have been involved in the Industry from the start of their working life and many were following their family's working involvement. The changes they have seen they have had a huge personal interest in eg decreasing stakes from years gone by which equates to decreasing owners and the bottom line decreased financial returns to themselves. Now you explain why these 50 year plus trainers would have no interest in change, if changes in the Industry results in better returns to them of course changes are in their best interests. If your company reduced your yearly salary to levels of years ago your saying your sitting back and not complaining? I would say its a very high % of trainers in NZ that are struggling to be a viable operation and you can honestly say they are happy to ride it to the bottom, exactly what planet are you on? Those 50 year old plus trainers have contributed to ensuring the Industry has a product to generate income, by working 7 days a week work in a reducing market where they are struggling to make ends meet but they battle on because they love the Industry. No trainer i believe is happy to ride the Industry to the bottom. They have interest in change all right and just remember they didn't ride the current state of the Industry to the bottom. The only plus is once you reach the bottom you have to at some point reach the top again to survive. You have said you have a percentage in a racehorse but your comments reflect a hidden agenda that doesn't align well with the true facts. I hope your trainer reads your ill informed comments and gives you the swerve you deserve. Sorry lights out but I don't have time to read your novel but I assume it's just more of your hatred of JA , what happened , did he make you redundant at NZ post ? , are you missing the bike rides . Where the condemnation goes wrong is two fold (1) Anything major JA has implemented must have been approved by the board and in fact at this time and date it will still be viewed as an investment , time will tell if its successful or not , the buck stops with the board . (2) much of his strategy has been undermined by Winston , he is responsible for the massive delays which are costing millions , racefields is the same today as it was 12 months ago , only the name has changed . Trainers , in 8 years time over 50% will be on the pension , that's when they will enjoy what they are doing and they will continue to oppose change because they will be very comfortable picking up the pension and making a extra bucks training horses , life's never been better , they are going nowhere unless they are forced to move . Pension for a couple , $6/650 a week plus training profits , nice . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightsOut 486 Report post Posted September 21, 2019 Quote Sorry lights out but I don't have time to read your novel but I assume it's just more of your hatred of JA , what happened , did he make you redundant at NZ post ? , are you missing the bike rides I think it would be better referenced as a horror rather than a novel and maybe if you did take time to read a little more you might find yourself better educated in the real world as far as the NZ Racing Industry is concerned. Assumption is the mother of all failures which you fall into by thinking I have a hatred of John Allen. I have posted as a person I have no problem with him but as far as his leadership skills and knowledge of the NZ Racing Industry I have had a huge question mark over his ability. Don't forget even John Allen endorsed my concerns by stating himself that he has been a serial failure in his working life. His management efforts at the NZRB are just a continuation of his self confessed working life flaw. He certainly didn't make me redundant at NZ Post but his tenor there as the CEO did result in many becoming redundant so no surprise I guess for you to assume that I may have been collateral damage from JA fallout. You need to read between the lines and the balance sheets TA as if you had of you wouldn't have made such an uneducated claim that John Allen would still be there in 12 months. Thankfully John Allen saw the writing on the wall as I and many others have over recent months and knew better to depart under his own announcement than have it done for him. Quote Where the condemnation goes wrong is two fold (1) Anything major JA has implemented must have been approved by the board and in fact at this time and date it will still be viewed as an investment , time will tell if its successful or not , the buck stops with the board . (2) much of his strategy has been undermined by Winston , he is responsible for the massive delays which are costing millions , racefields is the same today as it was 12 months ago , only the name has changed . A major #!%# up was proposed by John Allen to the NZRB Board which was subsequently implemented. The investment has proven to not perform as it was told it would do to the NZ Racing Industry, it has become a liability when its cost to build and service is not returning the extra revenue to warrant the tens of millions in costs of it. No financial institution would consider it in any way to be a worthy investment based on current returns. Years ago $20 plus million was as you as you so loosely label was seen as an investment in a new betting platform called Typhoon, that so called investment returned zero dollars and ended up in the bin. This new betting platform at over twice that cost of Typhoon is in service although in what could only be described as doing so in an under performing capacity and is highly unlikely to ever return the revenue required to justify it's over budget inflated investment. If you do some homework rather than once again assuming you will find out exactly why the Racing Minister told the DIA to go back to the drawing board to create a viable working policy with regard to racefield fees. I think its very obvious to most even if its not to you time isn't needed to tell that the Betting Platform is not a success. NZRB Board members gone, the CEO gone, are you slowing getting the picture that is getting painted? It's called the domino effect and its starting to steamroll. Quote Trainers , in 8 years time over 50% will be on the pension , that's when they will enjoy what they are doing and they will continue to oppose change because they will be very comfortable picking up the pension and making a extra bucks training horses , life's never been better , they are going nowhere unless they are forced to move . Pension for a couple , $6/650 a week plus training profits , nice The financial plight of many trainers will see the pension going towards reducing their ever increasing debt to stay in a business that continues to have inflation % of costs far exceeding income increased %. You really do live in cuckoo land thinking they will be thinking "life's never been better". Your one of those uneducated people who have become like that by not evaluating the NZ Racing Industry well enough to make a statement worthy of consideration. You continually think time will tell eg John Allen and the Betting Platform. Your probably best to keep your head buried in the sand with no clock to view. $#%* me the Industry is in its current strife because time has run out thanks to a poorly run Organisation set up to return the best possible income it can to ensure of its survival. Boss Hogg, Leggy, hedley and 3 others 4 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tripple alliance 1,026 Report post Posted September 22, 2019 ON On 9/18/2019 at 7:06 PM, Baz (NZ) said: That's 7 and you missed out the Waikato. But yes this could work! Inject all revenue into 8 tracks! CLUB INC ! Could work , you mean it will work . Approved trainers trainer's only , this keeps only those who are successful at their PROFESSION and those who have done the equilivent of an apprenticeship , only then it will be profession . Restrict midweek racing to a bare minimum making sure all profits from the TAB go into far fewer races ensuring stakes boom , currently around 3000 races are run in NZ , cut that to (wild guess) 1000 , doing this will triple stakes for the remaining races . Currently NZTR helps 28?? tracks be maintained when that is cut to 6/8 the facility's at the remaining tracks will eventually become high class as will the public facility's and who knows if we have more big days the younger people may start to return . All other racing on the screen will be imported making sure TAB profits are sustained . There you go , not that hard is it , thinning out trainers will be doing many a favour and the result for owners and punters will be positive . Under this scenario even Hedley will get his wish , the administration will shrink . Baz (NZ) 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
We're Doomed 4,868 Report post Posted September 22, 2019 1 hour ago, tripple alliance said: ON Could work , you mean it will work . Approved trainers trainer's only , this keeps only those who are successful at their PROFESSION and those who have done the equilivent of an apprenticeship , only then it will be profession . Restrict midweek racing to a bare minimum making sure all profits from the TAB go into far fewer races ensuring stakes boom , currently around 3000 races are run in NZ , cut that to (wild guess) 1000 , doing this will triple stakes for the remaining races . Currently NZTR helps 28?? tracks be maintained when that is cut to 6/8 the facility's at the remaining tracks will eventually become high class as will the public facility's and who knows if we have more big days the younger people may start to return . All other racing on the screen will be imported making sure TAB profits are sustained . There you go , not that hard is it , thinning out trainers will be doing many a favour and the result for owners and punters will be positive . Under this scenario even Hedley will get his wish , the administration will shrink . I don't have time for a comprehensive rely at the moment, but I just wanted to say that I tend to disagree with virtually everyone of your points. Pam Robson and Aaron Bidlake 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tripple alliance 1,026 Report post Posted September 22, 2019 46 minutes ago, We're Doomed said: I don't have time for a comprehensive rely at the moment, but I just wanted to say that I tend to disagree with virtually everyone of your points. Of course you do but if you want racing to thrive this approach will do it . Face it we have been in decline for the last 30 years and in 7/8 years time 50% of trainers will be pensioners so the timing for a change like this is spot on , this would take a few years to implement , upgrading etc . The other option is do what I am happy to do , don't worry about the stagnation/decline just enjoy racing , we all know what the stakes are , we don't have to be involved , life is self inflicted . Do you really think any 5/10 year plan is any use to many of us , I went to a small school , a half of those in my class are dead , they didn't make 65 poor bastards , it can't be to long before the rest of us join them , enjoy it while you can . Baz (NZ) 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy 4,090 Report post Posted September 23, 2019 5 hours ago, tripple alliance said: Restrict midweek racing to a bare minimum making sure all profits from the TAB go into far fewer races ensuring stakes boom , currently around 3000 races are run in NZ , cut that to (wild guess) 1000 , doing this will triple stakes for the remaining races . haha ... you reckon punters will be willing to lose as much on 1000 domestic races as 3000? Someone spike your coffee or did you forget to take your meds again? We're Doomed 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey 2,037 Report post Posted September 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Leggy said: haha ... you reckon punters will be willing to lose as much on 1000 domestic races as 3000? Someone spike your coffee or did you forget to take your meds again? Yes ,2000 less races to create the same amount of income as the 3000 races, how does that work? We're Doomed 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy 4,090 Report post Posted September 23, 2019 9 minutes ago, Huey said: Yes ,2000 less races to create the same amount of income as the 3000 races, how does that work? Probably be more economical to cut back to one race a year if that's the case and let them bet it all on that. Then you could run it for about $50m and it should be possible to find a decent track somewhere in the country. It also wouldn't matter if we only have a handful of owners trainers and jockeys left. Pam Robson and Huey 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tripple alliance 1,026 Report post Posted September 24, 2019 On 9/23/2019 at 2:01 PM, Leggy said: haha ... you reckon punters will be willing to lose as much on 1000 domestic races as 3000? Someone spike your coffee or did you forget to take your meds again? Its actually possible they will and it's also likely on course attendance will boom if these remaining days are on tracks of a high standard offering a total day out and possibly an evening out . We will be replacing 2000 no hoper costly races with Ausse racing , the profits on those 2000 Ausse races might be less than the local product but the costs associated with those 2000 dead duck races being held on crappy venues which no one goes to are substancial so the PROFITS from doing this exercise will be better . Baz (NZ) 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz (NZ) 1,722 Report post Posted September 24, 2019 6 hours ago, tripple alliance said: Its actually possible they will and it's also likely on course attendance will boom if these remaining days are on tracks of a high standard offering a total day out and possibly an evening out . We will be replacing 2000 no hoper costly races with Ausse racing , the profits on those 2000 Ausse races might be less than the local product but the costs associated with those 2000 dead duck races being held on crappy venues which no one goes to are substancial so the PROFITS from doing this exercise will be better . STAGE 1: Example Upper North AUCKLAND RACING INC - Auckland Ellerslie (Grass Turf) Auckland RC Avondale JC Counties RC Pakuranga Hunt Dargaville RC Whangarei RC Thames JCPukekohe - Training/Trials/Midweek Racing Only - Review 5 years Ruakaka or Avondale - Training/Trials/Midweek Racing Only - Review 5 years Ellerslie - Weekend/Premier Racing OnlyWAIKATO RACING INC - Cambridge Greenfields (StrathAyr Turf) Waikato RC Cambridge JC Matamata RC Waipa RC Racing Te Aroha South Waikato RC Waikato HuntTe Aroha - Training/Trials/Midweek Racing Only - Review 5 years Matamata - Training/Trials/Midweek Racing Only - Review 5 years Cambridge - Training/Trials/Weekend/Premier Racing OnlyBAY OF PLENTY RACING INC - Tauranga Gate Pa (Grass Turf) Racing Tauranga Racing Rotorua Racing Taupo Whakatane RC Rotorua & Bay Of Plenty Hunt Taumarunui RCTaupo - Trials/Midweek Racing Only - Review 5 years Te Teko - Trials/Midweek Racing Only - Review 5 yearsTauranga - Training/Weekend/Premier Racing Only 20 CLUBS = Racetracks Minimum 3 - Maximum 9 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...