Rusty 575 Report post Posted August 22, 2019 From memory the total nom fees for a runner in the Melbourne Cup is round about $50k per horse (that starts). God knows how they, or any racing club including the met can justify the costs for nom fees. What's the idea behind nom fees anyway? Is it to try and limit or restrict the total number of horses being nominated for a race, and or is it to cover (and then some) costs associated with the admin? We all know it's an unjustified rip off but just posing the question as to how and why they exist. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohokaman 5,763 Report post Posted August 22, 2019 On 8/21/2019 at 9:19 PM, Rusty said: It won't make a difference at all, if members asked the question. The club officials have their heads stuck in the sand real good. I asked a question years ago at the AGM during my last year as a member... what tangible items have been done in the past 12 months, and or planned in the next few months, that are designed to retain, and or attract younger members to the club. Jesus the silence was deafening. They have never had a clue about Marketing Rusty.....so nothing has changed there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamour 663 Report post Posted August 22, 2019 12 hours ago, Stables said: What's it to you dkc, it seems very personal, have you a share in a horse that's being nominated? Well here’s the problem I have with it Stables, in 2015 Addington took in $486,000 in acceptance fees. (Post 2015 they stopped detailing the amount in their accounts). That means an additional 63k was paid by owners (GST content) over & above the $486k , which the club then have to pass on to the IRD. Given that the acceptance fees don’t add to the net stake but are simply charged to the owners and then paid back to them after the race the whole transaction does nothing to increase stakes but has the net effect of taking 63k out of owners pockets to be paid in tax. From a business perspective or any logical analysis the the fee is insane. dkc, MisterEd, TARANTULA and 1 other 2 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelli 426 Report post Posted August 23, 2019 Based on last year's numbers for noms, sustaining payments and starting fees, owners paid out a total of $241K (incl. $31.5K in gst) towards the NZ Cup $800K stake (30%) and trotting owners paid out $99K (incl. 13K gst) towards the Dominion stake of $300K (33%). The owner of each Cup starter paid out $14.7K and if they didn't place their net return was $1000. The Dominion owners paid out $5.5K with net return of $365 if down the track. LongOwner 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkc 181 Report post Posted August 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Nelli said: Based on last year's numbers for noms, sustaining payments and starting fees, owners paid out a total of $241K (incl. $31.5K in gst) towards the NZ Cup $800K stake (30%) and trotting owners paid out $99K (incl. 13K gst) towards the Dominion stake of $300K (33%). The owner of each Cup starter paid out $14.7K and if they didn't place their net return was $1000. The Dominion owners paid out $5.5K with net return of $365 if down the track. Stables will think that's fine. They are using nomination fees to make stakes look 30 percent better than they actually are. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stables 577 Report post Posted August 23, 2019 It's no different than the Sires Stakes and Yearling sales series. The owner pays. If it wasn't for breeders and owners there wouldn't be any 6 figure stakes except for the NZ Cup, Auckland Cup, Dominion Handicap and the Rowe Cup. Just be happy you've got a horse good enough to compete at that level. If you haven't then don't nominate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamour 663 Report post Posted August 23, 2019 35 minutes ago, Stables said: It's no different than the Sires Stakes and Yearling sales series. The owner pays. If it wasn't for breeders and owners there wouldn't be any 6 figure stakes except for the NZ Cup, Auckland Cup, Dominion Handicap and the Rowe Cup. Just be happy you've got a horse good enough to compete at that level. If you haven't then don't nominate What you don’t seem to understand is that with acceptance fees, the owners don’t pay. An acceptance fee is declared for a race , say for example $1150 , but that is never paid to the club. It is deducted off the horses winnings. It is a paper transaction only. This is why it is different different from sires stakes payments. This paper transaction causes a gst liability, in the above case $1,500 dollars if there were 10 starters, which the club must pay to IRD. Do you not think it would be better if that money was put into stake money rather than Paid to IRD. LongOwner 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelli 426 Report post Posted August 23, 2019 The SS, sales races, Breeders Crown etc are sweepstakes. Foals and yearlings must be nominated before they are even broken in. In contrast the Cup and Dominion are open races, supposedly attracting the best horses in Australasia. But while North Islander may have horses good enough to compete, the cost barrier of entering and getting a horse and trainer down and back from the North Island is daunting. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stables 577 Report post Posted August 23, 2019 It's only daunting if you don't have the confidence to think your horse is good enough to win. I wouldn't worry about nominating myself Purdon's going to win anyway Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ Flash 2,115 Report post Posted August 23, 2019 4 hours ago, Stables said: It's only daunting if you don't have the confidence to think your horse is good enough to win. I wouldn't worry about nominating myself Purdon's going to win anyway Very defeatist attitude but each to their own as they say. Greg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkc 181 Report post Posted August 23, 2019 What I can't understand is how can the owners not pay the last part of the nomination fee and the club not pay out the advervisted stake, How can they say it is race stakes? Or is this money coming from HRNZ actually Addingtons way of making the percentage paid to them from HRNZ and then paid out in stakes look higher than it actually is. I smell a rat! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamour 663 Report post Posted August 23, 2019 11 minutes ago, dkc said: What I can't understand is how can the owners not pay the last part of the nomination fee and the club not pay out the advervisted stake, How can they say it is race stakes? Or is this money coming from HRNZ actually Addingtons way of making the percentage paid to them from HRNZ and then paid out in stakes look higher than it actually is. I smell a rat! The thread is about acceptance fees. Stables has tried to confuse the issue by equating them to sires stakes payments which are totally different. In fact sires stakes races & the like don’t have acceptance fees. I support stakes racing and I am not against nomination fees for group 1races. What I am against is acceptance fees that are a paper transaction only, that do not increase the actual stake paid but do create a gst liability that otherwise could be put towards increasing real stakes paid. I’m not aware DKC of any races where the last part of a nomination fee need not be paid, only acceptance fees. You could be right that it somehow increases the payment the Met gets from HRNZ. If that’s the case it would be interesting to hear from The Met the real reason they persist with what on the face of it appears to be a irrational policy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkc 181 Report post Posted August 23, 2019 The last 10 k of the starting fee is never paid by the owner. Addington just take it off the stakes paid to the owner. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamour 663 Report post Posted August 23, 2019 19 minutes ago, dkc said: The last 10 k of the starting fee is never paid by the owner. Addington just take it off the stakes paid to the owner. You are correct. The acceptance fee is never paid. This is what differentiates nomination fees from acceptance fees and makes acceptance fees so ridiculous. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkc 181 Report post Posted August 24, 2019 4 hours ago, lamour said: You are correct. The acceptance fee is never paid. This is what differentiates nomination fees from acceptance fees and makes acceptance fees so ridiculous. Absolutely! Trainers do something about it. The power is your hands. You have the product that they need. You are providing the entertainment Time to get organized and do something about this. Starters are supposed to be getting 2 % of the stake. These group races with Starting fees means they are not getting anywhere near this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stables 577 Report post Posted August 24, 2019 Good luck with that dkc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkc 181 Report post Posted August 26, 2019 I see the Maurice homes Vase. 6 runners nominated. Acceptance fee is $345 dollars 6th gets $600 less $345 = $255 left The R61 to R80 race 6th onwards get $260. Maurice Holmes 30k Other Race 13k Good on you Addington! Rusty, lamour and LongOwner 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stables 577 Report post Posted August 26, 2019 You will be amazed DKC but I agree with you, that is away over the top. I can live with it for major races like the NZ Cup but the Maurice Holmes Vase is just another race and should be acceptance fee free Rusty and dkc 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkc 181 Report post Posted August 26, 2019 Thanks Stables but still want to know what they want and use the acceptance fees for. All they are doing is falsely advertising the stakes for the races. It's like Donald Trumps fake news LongOwner 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty 575 Report post Posted September 24, 2019 Good to see that there are NO NOMINATION FEES for the upcoming Interdoms (pacers and trotters). Well done to the ATC. Wake up Addington. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamour 663 Report post Posted September 24, 2019 8 minutes ago, Rusty said: Good to see that there are NO NOMINATION FEES for the upcoming Interdoms (pacers and trotters). Well done to the ATC. Wake up Addington. Well done to Oamaru as well. No acceptance fee on Hannon Memorial. LongOwner and Rusty 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelli 426 Report post Posted September 24, 2019 Still series of 3 acceptance fees for Interdoms. I think some conditions set by Interdom rules and are out of ATC direct control. Trotters still get a poor deal. Lower stakes and acceptance fees higher relative to what they are racing for. Also no consolation even though more trotters may nominate than pacers as with NZ Cup and Dominion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...