Spring Carnival horses ?

[Red Rum 1,833]

Couple gutsy wins overnight , Red Verdon at York and McEvoy got horse called Saroog home in decent Ascot handicap , Nakeeta well back .I would assume if connections want a good guide if money is worth spending sending horse down McEvoy is the jockey you want on as who would have better idea of whats needed so imho that horse is worth a decent look if it travels.

[Ohokaman 5,841]

This one might be worth keeping an eye on RR...

https://www.racenet.com.au/news/impressive-uk-winner-bound-for-australia-20190714

[Red Rum 1,833]

1 hour ago, Ohokaman said:

This one might be worth keeping an eye on RR...

https://www.racenet.com.au/news/impressive-uk-winner-bound-for-australia-20190714

Looks like Gosden has had early clear out from look of that sales . Horses he beat look average on form  but  handicapper rates him gone from  88 to 102 for that win. 

Gosden has a 3 year old  filly called Gloam in his yard , 4 million guineas at sales in 2017 , not raced yet , no entries , that's some money standing in stable munching hay .

[scoobysnacks 386]

Rekindling and Cross Counter were hardly "nearly classic 3YO types".

They weren't even close to being anywhere near the best 3YO's Europe had to offer and they still won at Flemington.

I've love to see Enable come over and put five lengths on her opposition throughout the carnival, but not going to happen.

 

 

[Red Rum 1,833]

2 hours ago, poundforpound said:

Don’t you think you need a WFA quality horse, or nearly classic quality 3yo to be competitive down here in the spring ?

Every year I see things that ran well in the Ebor / Cesarewitch type race get spruked by the dumb fuck journos, and every year those horses get lapped in our big handicaps 

Heartbreak City,  hurdler , Ebor winner went close , Max Dynamite arse end French Derby years ago staying handicap hurdler  went close , Marmelo arse end of average Grand Prix Saint Cloud the other week , not anywhere near classic class  and beaten in group 2 last night went close,  beaten novice chaser Qewy went close in big one and won a country cup. There's been a few handicappers , hurdlers , failed chasers gone ok. Polarisation went ok two Sydney Cups novice   hurdler , Francis Assisi novice hurdler went ok. 

[Red Rum 1,833]

4 hours ago, poundforpound said:

Ebor @ Cesarawitch ???

Must be one exception to the rule ?

Couple more from Ebor back catalogue , All the Good  won Caulfield Cup to go with Ebor , Purple Moon went ok in Melb Cup after winning Ebor . Defo worth a look for Spring racing .

Cesarawitch a different kind of race , although I thought Withold went ok under top weight in Geelong  Cup last year and he bled in the race . Ebor imho a better guide though.

Prix Kegorley at Deauville produces some good ones for Spring . 

[Red Rum 1,833]

On 7/14/2019 at 6:47 PM, Ohokaman said:

This one might be worth keeping an eye on RR...

https://www.racenet.com.au/news/impressive-uk-winner-bound-for-australia-20190714

Withold was massive at Newbury last night OM   , decent prize  2 miles 62 kilos joint top weight  big field first race  after bleeding in Geelong Cup led all the way and beat off the challengers .Owner has got very deep pockets but must be a risk heading down again. That horse goes so well off a big lay off .

[Berri 2,131]

On 7/15/2019 at 12:35 PM, NextPlease said:

Rekindling and Cross Counter were hardly "nearly classic 3YO types".

They weren't even close to being anywhere near the best 3YO's Europe had to offer and they still won at Flemington.

I've love to see Enable come over and put five lengths on her opposition throughout the carnival, but not going to happen.

 

 

Don't agree with that statement...

Cross Counter won the Gordon Stakes beating Dee Ex Bee. He had run 2nd to Masar in the Derby.

As for Rekindled, he ran fourth to Permian in the Dante (a vital Derby prep race) with Benbatl second and Crystal Ocean 3rd. Permian was one of the best 3 yo who unfortunately died at 3, Benbatl  ran 5th in the Derby, Won the Dubai World Cup and ran 2nd to Winx in the Cox plate. And just to round it off, Crystal Ocean won the Prince of Wales this week, a group 1 WFA 2400m race.

You're talking shit...

 

[Red Rum 1,833]

49 minutes ago, Berri said:

Don't agree with that statement...

Cross Counter won the Gordon Stakes beating Dee Ex Bee. He had run 2nd to Masar in the Derby.

As for Rekindled, he ran fourth to Permian in the Dante (a vital Derby prep race) with Benbatl second and Crystal Ocean 3rd. Permian was one of the best 3 yo who unfortunately died at 3, Benbatl  ran 5th in the Derby, Won the Dubai World Cup and ran 2nd to Winx in the Cox plate. And just to round it off, Crystal Ocean won the Prince of Wales this week, a group 1 WFA 2400m race.

You're talking shit...

 

That Gordon Stakes produces some serious horses nowdays.  A scroll through the winners /placegetters shows a fair few Aussie Group 1 winners and top class horses . How is it still only a group 3 . Couple of Melb Cup winners in Florente and CC  .Spillway  , It's Somewhat , Dandino.went alright in OZ . Highland Reel, Ullysys , Conduit ,Encke, Crystal Ocean , Sixties Icon, Harbinger  . Future Group 1 winners year  after year .

Mind you that Rebel Soldier had lead hooves down here with Hayes .

Two weeks to Glorious Goodwood . 

[Ohokaman 5,841]

7 hours ago, Red Rum said:

Withold was massive at Newbury last night OM   , decent prize  2 miles 62 kilos joint top weight  big field first race  after bleeding in Geelong Cup led all the way and beat off the challengers .Owner has got very deep pockets but must be a risk heading down again. That horse goes so well off a big lay off .

https://www.racenet.com.au/news/withhold-back-a-winner-20190721

[scoobysnacks 386]

 

Just remember... many horses can finish second behind Winx, but that doesn't mean they're in the same class as each other.

Styles make fights.

[Berri 2,131]

7 hours ago, NextPlease said:

 

Just remember... many horses can finish second behind Winx, but that doesn't mean they're in the same class as each other.

Styles make fights.

You're talking through a hole in your arse. Even though he had only run 2nd to Winx (beaten 2 lengths), Benbatl was among a group of top class three year olds. That was franked by this horse winning the Dubai World Cup. Give up. You don't stand a chance.

[scoobysnacks 386]

My opinion: Cross Counter and Rekindling didn't come close to the top Classic 3YO's
Your opinion: Cross Counter and Rekindling did come close.

FACT: Neither Cross Counter or Rekindling won a Classic 3YO race.

If Mike Tyson defeats Evander Holyfield, then Holyfield defeats Lennox Lewis, that doesn't mean Tyson would defeat Lewis by default.

Fact is... Rekindling, especially, finished behind these runners. Many mug horses have finished second behind Winx - and some have even finished in front of her. But, that doesn't qualify them on the same level as horses that win at the top level.

Cross Counter and Rekindling have yet to win at the TOP (which means the highest) level in the UK.

Are you going to try to dispute that, too?

 

[scoobysnacks 386]

Cross Counter - Best UK win - Group 3 at Goodwood
Rekindling - Best UK win - Group 2 win at Curragh

That's top classic form?..... come on Berri. You may have reverted to personal insults to get your point across, but your point is rubbish.

That's not classic form and I easily stand by my original statement.

Just because a horse that beats you goes on to win at the highest level, does not quality you to do the same. That's  common sense.

Edited July 21, 2019 by scooby3051
Language.

[Red Rum 1,833]

Benbatl finished his 3 year old career 113 , Cracksman 130. 17lbs a decent lump .Benbatl has always been a decent distance off best in UK .

He won Dubai Turf , he was still sent round at 10s in International at York. He has improved clearly and targeted OZ. To be fair he had double World Cup winner Thunder Snow and Latrobe behind that day .

Classic class not required for decent Melb Cup run.Ebor winners  from Quick Ransom , to Hugs Dancer in future careers  to the following in same season as Ebor win Give the Slip 2nd   Purple Moon 2nd , Heartbreak City 2nd , Nakeeta 5th  and even Muntahaa ran 9th putting lengths on OZ classic winner Ace High last year all put in decent effort in Cup  . The Ebor Handicap a proven guide over many years.

 

[scoobysnacks 386]

If I fail at everything "including the punt" is redundant. Also, when I'm only given an allowance of $400 a week (like you have openly admitted to) then I'll consider myself a failed punter. Until that time, shove off.

Red Rum has just proven you don't need classic form and Rekindling + Cross Counter have also shown that!

[Rusty 575]

1 hour ago, NextPlease said:

Red Rum has just proven you don't need classic form and Rekindling + Cross Counter have also shown that!

100% agree. 

Red Rum knows his UK racing. What he doesn't know about it, isn't worth knowing. 

[Red Rum 1,833]

Take out the two handicap snips Rekindling and Cross Counter and CC had the snip in March 2018 so was never on classic path bar Irish Leger . In 2017 the 2nd and 3rd Johannes Vermeer and Max Dynamite. JV only ran once late at 3 so could have been classic class  who knows, MD rear of French Derby years ago a hurdler . 2018 Marmelo 2nd and Prince of Aaron  3rd , both not classic class.So loophole closure no silver bullet for Aussie trainers.

[Ohokaman 5,841]

Rumour in Oz that Group One SA maestro Mike de Kok is looking at establishing a satellite stable there...visited sites in NSW and Victoria apparently. That would shake things up a bit....

[crustyngrizzly 1,701]

7 minutes ago, Ohokaman said:

Rumour in Oz that Group One SA maestro Mike de Kok is looking at establishing a satellite stable there...visited sites in NSW and Victoria apparently. That would shake things up a bit....

Back in July 2018 De Kok was confronted by grooms weilding weapons when they went on strike.

He wrote a piece then that he was reconsidering his future in SA.

IMO   it will only be a matter of time before his satellite stable would become the main stable.

[Berri 2,131]

6 hours ago, NextPlease said:

My opinion: Cross Counter and Rekindling didn't come close to the top Classic 3YO's
Your opinion: Cross Counter and Rekindling did come close.

FACT: Neither Cross Counter or Rekindling won a Classic 3YO race.

If Mike Tyson defeats Evander Holyfield, then Holyfield defeats Lennox Lewis, that doesn't mean Tyson would defeat Lewis by default.

Fact is... Rekindling, especially, finished behind these runners. Many mug horses have finished second behind Winx - and some have even finished in front of her. But, that doesn't qualify them on the same level as horses that win at the top level.

Cross Counter and Rekindling have yet to win at the TOP (which means the highest) level in the UK.

Are you going to try to dispute that, too?

 

You are kidding!!! I thought I'd read it all....Are you and CT from the same litter?

[Swoopa 281]

On 7/20/2019 at 8:56 PM, Red Rum said:

Withold was massive at Newbury last night OM   , decent prize  2 miles 62 kilos joint top weight  big field first race  after bleeding in Geelong Cup led all the way and beat off the challengers .Owner has got very deep pockets but must be a risk heading down again. That horse goes so well off a big lay off .

Agree Rumbo, What a training effort  Roger  Charlton has done to get him ready after the lay off and wind op!That wasn't a bad handicap field he dealt with under that weight.I would presume that  they may lean towards the Ebor instead of the Goodwood Cup because it's now worth £1m,but time will tell

[Red Rum 1,833]

Not sure who gets job of pricing  the ante post  markets for Melb Cup  , TAB had Belgravia at 301 and Ladbrokes AU had Sir John Lavery at big odds last night . Both poor horses  dead for quite a while so probably a bit skinny at those odds .

[Red Rum 1,833]

On 7/23/2019 at 9:24 AM, Swoopa said:

Agree Rumbo, What a training effort  Roger  Charlton has done to get him ready after the lay off and wind op!That wasn't a bad handicap field he dealt with under that weight.I would presume that  they may lean towards the Ebor instead of the Goodwood Cup because it's now worth £1m,but time will tell

What's your thoughts on King Advice, Frankel out of flying 2 yo but stays with guts upon guts . I keep watching him thinking the handicapper has got him but the handicapper cannot get him.71 start season to 108 and win last night , looked beat but they cannot pass the tough bugger.