RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
POPA GAS

CAMERAS

Recommended Posts

HI ALL, as you all know we are out of greyhounds. 

We got 3 pos before Xmas, so we put in 4 cameras  that covered all our kennels.

we did not think anyone would come in and give our dogs anything.But we had them to cover us.

Now when number 4 happen, we asked if we could have the swab tested for $1200 but only if it was a blind test,we were told no, they have to know what they are looking for.

We asked to look at the tapes in the kennel block at the track.Oh no they only keep them for 2 to 3 weeks as it is on VHS. Now you would think when the RIU get a Pos they would ask the club to keep the tapes.

Now I know the club has spent a lot of money on cameras all over the place But I did not know that the cameras are so old , didn't cover enough  in the kennels and on VHS.

We did not do it. Bev Duganzich 

   ps  .from now on I only reply to statements or questions from named contributors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have not posted on here for some time not because i was banned or sick of Racecafe but sick of social media in general but feel compelled to comment on this debacle because it seems so bizzare.

     Earl and family have been huge contributors to the industry over many years , have been involved in all aspects including breeding and training very successfully, club participation and helping other trainers on racedays. To my knowledge they have never been invloved in any previous devious behaviour. Bev and I have not always shared the same point of view but I have found the three family members I have met good friendly people

 When these charges arose I like many others felt they must have been guilty because of the multiple charges and the fact it is a substance not  common.

  However my gut feeling is with the Duganavitches. Firstly when Earl was informed of the positives and asked if he wanted to scratch a dog running that day, he chose to let it run. That would not make sense if he knew it had been juiced. I put myself in the same position and I think I would start it because I knew I ensured it was drug free. Mind you on the other hand I may have started if I had juced it because it would be an admission that I knew it would be positive. I am adamant though that I would not have hesitated to start that day.

So if they did not juice the dogs how did they get the stuff in their systems. For some time now the raging fire in the industry has been the Cole saga. Anyone that was even polite to the Cole kennels has been ridiculed and vilified on social media with some wankers even making threats against ex staff members and those helping the kennel. From the tone of those comments and paticularilly recent ones against Earl it would not been beyond reason that one of the furious social media contributors took supposed retribution. With the poor security arrangements at Wanganui, that cannot be counted out plus the poor security arrangements in raceday carparks leaves huge opportuniy. I know whenever I have had a dog in a group race I will never ever leave it unatended untill it is in the kennells as it would be so easy to nobble an animal at that stage. I only got that paranoid after we had a $2.50 favourite in a big race at Wellington which finished 60 metres last and nearly died on the way home. I requested a swab after the race and was refused. I did not give the dog anything but someone did!!!

A wise old doctor told me once at the beginning of my career "you will only diagnose something if you think of it" That is what is needed here. Think, is it possible Earl did not administer the drug then how else could it have got there.

Bev I believe your family did not do it. I cannot prove that but it is my gut feeling . Unfortunately you cannot prove it either. By the very nature of the system you are guilty untill you can prove you are innocent which is nigh on impossible. You can understand why that is so because everyone cheating hua that gets caught is going to say they didn't give it to the dog 

  Catch 22 I guess every trainer that takes a dog to the races faces the same possibility.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am in your camp also Gom I don't believe that they have done this and like you I am sad with the Social media that is happening with the Cole's and now this. The Duganzich have been great contributors in the Greyhound Code and it is a sad way to finish all the best for the future Duganzich family 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Janet are you still saying cole didnt do it 

Even If the SPCA have charged him 

Earl is guilty he knows what happen 

Janet you also had a positive and you had a good record up until that point you also have been in the game a very long time 

Earl should just be honest instead of saying things like sardines 

He hasnt paid his fine as he has said himself 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Joe blogs said:

Janet are you still saying cole didnt do it 

Even If the SPCA have charged him 

Earl is guilty he knows what happen 

Janet you also had a positive and you had a good record up until that point you also have been in the game a very long time 

Earl should just be honest instead of saying things like sardines 

He hasnt paid his fine as he has said himself 

I haven't posted on the racing forums for quite some time.
To my knowledge, no one has ever accused Andy and Bev of wrongdoing so I have no idea why anyone would go down that path?

Joe, you have made a valid point, being a member of an organisation for a long time does not exempt that person or persons from culpability.
Off the top of my head, I can name at least 5 cases that were proven involving long-time participants including the Halls, no nobbling involved.

I have read everything available to read on this particular case, including a written statement made by Earl that he believes the dermorphin was generated by gut bacteria in the dogs' stomachs. If that were even plausible then the industry is a dead duck. This is the exact quote: "I dont think my dogs have been injected with dermorphin, but they have it in there gut bacteria." Why even raise the issue of cameras, it's a red herring!

GOM if you were going to nobble a dog you would use a substance that is readily available and easy to administer would you not. Caffeine for example. You cannot buy dermorphin in New Zealand. You would have to import it, or be a chemist. At a cost of around US$200 for 5mg plus shipping and handling the idea again is implausible. It has to be injected which would require the dog to be removed from the kennel or crate then replaced, this happened on 4 separate occasions. The risk of detection would be prohibitive.

For christ sake give it a bloody rest and move on Bev. We are sick to death of hearing about it!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Em, I think what Earl was saying when he made the above statement is the drug was in the dog but put didn't put it there. He was trying to diagnose the problem of thinking outside the square. Of course the evidence points his way but only because we haven't thought of another scenario. Ours are only opinions.

I guess what makes me think twice about it is, what would happen to you and I if we were faced with the same scenario and hadn't given them something. It is impossible to defend. This is less likely to happen to me as I do not race any now. The charge is presenting a dog to race with a prohibitive substance in it's system so of course Earl is guilty of that charge. I reserve my condemnation of Earl though on a personal level, just my opinion.

I am  a WHITE, STRAIGHT, MIDDLE CLASS, MALE who owns a GUN and races GREYHOUNDS. That is probably enough to offend nearly everyone on the planet at some level. Should I be worried.

ps Maybe Em it is time I went back into hibernation

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, GOM said:

Em, I think what Earl was saying when he made the above statement is the drug was in the dog but put didn't put it there. He was trying to diagnose the problem of thinking outside the square. Of course the evidence points his way but only because we haven't thought of another scenario. Ours are only opinions.

I guess what makes me think twice about it is, what would happen to you and I if we were faced with the same scenario and hadn't given them something. It is impossible to defend. This is less likely to happen to me as I do not race any now. The charge is presenting a dog to race with a prohibitive substance in it's system so of course Earl is guilty of that charge. I reserve my condemnation of Earl though on a personal level, just my opinion.

I am  a WHITE, STRAIGHT, MIDDLE CLASS, MALE who owns a GUN and races GREYHOUNDS. That is probably enough to offend nearly everyone on the planet at some level. Should I be worried.

ps Maybe Em it is time I went back into hibernation

Me to Gom had enough also does'nt matter what you say there is always some person out there or thinks that they know it all end of story. Have a nice day you all 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Camacho said:

Me to Gom had enough also does'nt matter what you say there is always some person out there or thinks that they know it all end of story. Have a nice day you all 

Lol know one on this site has said a word about it until bev piped up so how can you be sick of it 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Read it for yourself.

Posted by Earl on another site. If you believe that bacteria in a dog's gut is capable of synthesising dermorphin, then the greyhound industry is done for. The heading clearly says Dermorphin production by bacteria. Nothing to do with nobbling.

 

Dermorphin Production by Bacteria
 Distinct pathways for modification of the bacterial cell wall by non-canonical D-amino acids
Non canonical amino acids are amino acids that are not one of the 20 amino acids normally found in structural proteins in animals.
L,D-transpeptidases incorporate non-canonical D-amino acids into tetrapeptides of V. cholerae PG.
The difference between efficiencies for the forward (D-Ala → D-Met) and reverse (D-Met → D-Ala) reactions suggests that accumulation of D-Met muropeptides would be favoured in vivo, even if both D-Met and D-Ala were simultaneously present at similar concentrations. Therefore, in stationary phase, when D-Met is present, LdtA is likely to promote accumulation of muro4M peptides, rather than a continual exchange of the C-terminal amino acid within tetrapeptides.
Muro4 peptides are tetrapeptides used in the formation of bacterial cell walls.
In natural environments, bacterial communities typically contain multiple species (Straight and Kolter, 2009), which could produce a variety of D-amino acids (Lam et al, 2009)
The D-amino acid in Dermorphin is D-Arginine which according to the above article could possibly be produced by naturally occurring bacterial communities, eg, in the intestine.

Different processes control formation of D-Met muropeptides in bacteria
To begin to explore whether the pathways for incorporation of NCDAAs are conserved, we assessed whether D-Met was targeted to equivalent muropeptides within diverse species, and whether mutations and antibiotics have uniform effects upon D-Met incorporation. Unexpectedly, these assays revealed that only V. cholerae and C. crescentus incorporate NCDAAs into both tetrapeptides and pentapeptides, although C. crescentus, unlike V. cholerae, contains predominantly muro5M (Figure 4D; Supplementary Figure S1). PG from all other organisms tested contained just one of the two classes of peptides. Following growth in media supplemented with D-Met, muro4M peptides were detected in PG from E. coli and P. aeruginosa, while muro5M peptides were detected in PG from B. subtilis, E. faecalis and S. aureus (Figure 4D; 
E.coli is a naturally occuring bacteria in mammalian intestines.
NCDAAs, such as D-Met, are incorporated at two distinct sites within V. cholerae PG subunits. The majority of D-Met (80%) is present as the C-terminal amino acid within monomeric or dimeric tetramers (muro4M), while the remainder comprises the C-terminal amino acid within pentapeptides (muro5M). Formation of muro4M peptides is dependent upon Ldts, inner membrane-anchored periplasmic proteins that catalyse L,D crosslinking of muropeptides and linkage of lipoprotein Lpp to PG (Magnet et al, 2007b,
In vitro characterization of a purified Ldt from V. cholerae (LdtA) revealed that it can exchange the C-terminal amino acid of a variety of tetrapeptide substrates. However, LdtA is more efficient at catalysing exchange in dimeric than in monomeric substrates, and it more readily catalyses replacement of D-Ala by D-Met than the reverse reaction. The latter finding indicates that LdtA should promote muro4M accumulation in stationary phase, when NCDAAs are produced. LdtA can accept many D-amino acids as substrates, a flexibility that may enable reaction to the range of D-amino acids produced during stationary phase by diverse organisms in the natural environment.
Tetrapeptide formation incorporating D-amino acids can occur naturally with a variety of tetrapeptides able to be formed.
Peptidoglycan is a polysaccharide made of two glucose derivatives, N-acetylglucosamine (NAG) and N-acetylmuramic acid (NAM), alternated in long chains. The chains are cross-linked to one another by a tetrapeptide that extends off the NAM sugar unit, allowing a lattice-like structure to form. The four amino acids that compose the tetrapeptide are: L-alanine, D-glutamine, L-lysine or meso-diaminopimelic acid (DPA), and D-alanine. Typically only the L-isomeric form of amino acids are utilized by cells but the use of the mirror image D-amino acids provides protection from proteases that might compromise the integrity of the cell wall by attacking the peptidoglycan. The tetrapeptides can be directly cross-linked to one another, with the D-alanine on one tetrapeptide binding to the L-lysine/ DPA on another tetrapeptide.
Tetrapeptides are naturally produced in large quantities for bacterial cell wall production with D-amino acids typically incorporated .
 
Octapeptides synthesized from D amino acids were absorbed from the intestine and excreted in urine of normal rats drinking 5% glucose/1% creatinine containing the 125I-labeled peptides at 0.1-25 mg/dl
Octapeptides being considerably larger and more complex than tetrapeptides, it is reasonable to assume that tetrapeptides would also be absorbed from the mammalian intestine. 
   The main structural features of the cell wall peptidoglycan of E.coli B have been established by Weidel and co-workers. According to these authors the principal repeating unit in this peptidoglycan is represented by the disaccharide tetrapeptide GNAc-MurNAc-L-Ala-D-Glu-meso-DAP-D-Ala.   
Tetrapeptides being an integral part of bacterial cell walls would naturally be released into the intestine upon death and breakdown  of the bacteria. Absorption of some of these breakdown products is entirely logical.
                         
Preprodermaseptin b and preproadenoregulin have considerable sequence identities to the precursors encoding the opioid heptapeptides dermorphin, dermenkephalin, and deltorphins
The hyperdivergence of modern antimicrobial peptides and the number of peptides per species result from repeated duplications of an approximately 150-million-year-old ancestral gene and accelerated mutations of the mature peptide domain, probably involving a mutagenic, error-prone, DNA polymerase similar to Escherichia coli Pol V.
Although many of the peptides produced by frogs are antibacterial, they are produced by a similar gene in E.coli which has the ability to produce a variety of tetrapeptides.
No work appears to have been on whether E.coli or other intestinal bacteria can produce the tetrapeptide sequence for dermorphin but it seems entirely logical that this is possible.
Dermorphin is not found in humans or other mammals and similar D-amino acid peptides have only been found in bacteria, amphibians and molluscs.[5] Dermorphin appears to be made in these through an unusual posttranslational modification carried out by an amino acid isomerase.[6] This unusual process is needed because the D-alanine in this peptide is not among the 20 amino acids coded for in the genetic code and thus the peptide cannot be synthesized in the usual way from the encodings in the genome of an organism.
An isomerase is a specific enzyme capable of transforming an L-Amino acid into a D-Amino acid.

I didn't make this up. You all have a nice day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What point are you making here Em? That spiel about dermorphin  is gobbblydegook  to most people and to me just sounds like another opinion albeit an obscure one. I can understand if Earl read this he would grasp at it as a possible alternative delivery route unlikely as it seems.

You are a bit tough on Bev as she is reacting in an understandable manner and Christ would not mind her standing her ground.

By the way I forgot to put meat eating on my list of attributes. I must have all the fields covered now

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why is it Gom you go along with people with dodgy  dealings 

You told us you didn't think cole did what he has been charged with now earl who knows exactly what happened and not only that got let off very very light 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, GOM said:

What point are you making here Em? That spiel about dermorphin  is gobbblydegook  to most people and to me just sounds like another opinion albeit an obscure one. I can understand if Earl read this he would grasp at it as a possible alternative delivery route unlikely as it seems.

You are a bit tough on Bev as she is reacting in an understandable manner and Christ would not mind her standing her ground.

By the way I forgot to put meat eating on my list of attributes. I must have all the fields covered now

Gidday Mike, I notice you commented you don’t race any dogs currently, are you finished with hound racing or just having a break? Although I use an alias (like most on this site) I have met and chatted with you many times so I’m asking the question simply out of curiosity. I was around starting from the days of your top dog Matanuska, he was top dog for sure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On 7/12/2019 at 12:02 PM, GOM said:

Well actually Linda brought two pups a year ago and I am helping break them in for her. I guess that just goes to show you are NEVER really out of this game once you are hooked

Mike good to hear the sport wont be losing Linda and yourself northern greyhounds certainly need numbers to keep it going very concerned with where northern racing is heading. Quality of dogs racing is not great due to the influx of supermarket dogs. Also hear there are 2 other owner trainers are hanging up the leads when their current dogs stop racing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, bus stop said:

Mike good to hear the sport wont be losing Linda and yourself northern greyhounds certainly need numbers to keep it going very concerned with where northern racing is heading. Quality of dogs racing is not great due to the influx of supermarket dogs. Also hear there are 2 other owner trainers are hanging up the leads when their current dogs stop racing.

And what have these “supermarket” dogs done for the people who have taken them on? Nothing!!! Oh actually they have done something, increases these trainers outgoings tenfold and completely stuffed their “starters to stake payers” stat’s!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.