We're Doomed 4,824 Report post Posted July 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, Huey said: You've got to wonder how successful outsourcing will be, we've had several Australians living in NZ trying to fix NZracing who have been woefully unsuccessful and now we are going to hand the reigns STS over to a bunch of them living in Australia. Australians really don't understand NZ Racing. Racing has nowhere near the hold in NZ that it does in Australia. And we don't have the NSW, Victoria rivalry that has largely been responsible for driving up Aussie stakes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
We're Doomed 4,824 Report post Posted July 2, 2019 8 minutes ago, gubellini said: Folks don’t hold your breath waiting for stake increases! The NZ First Racing Policy going into the last election stated that minimum stakes for galloping races would be $15,000. Still waiting! An old political strategy when you fail is to escalate predictions. The Messara Report wants stakes to double ie minimum stakes of $20,000 for gallops. Pie in the sky. I fear stakes may even decline in the next season once RITA unravels the NZRB debacle. Winston's million dollar races last time he was in power were a total disaster with absolutely no residual benefit to the industry; surely he has learnt from that error? Huey 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonkatime 323 Report post Posted July 2, 2019 2 hours ago, We're Doomed said: Do you really think there are enough people with an intimate interest in Racing these days for it to influence an election? I know a bloke who’s been a small time owner his whole life and never voted for Winston but says he is next election because of what he’s doing so there maybe well be a bit of influence. Given Winston polls around the 5% threshold it a few votes could have a very big influence on the next election. Midget and We're Doomed 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
porky 900 Report post Posted July 2, 2019 15k min stakes would return owners to horses and trainers in Business because you wouldn,t continually be dipping in the pocket to pay extras...vets, farriers etc,etc. it would become fun and a social thing attracting youngsters and grow from there. Oh Shit yeah , i remember Grey Way, On Show , No Show, Tono Bungay, Shivaree, Mop , Fraxy, Game,...... (that is off the top of me head)...don,t get me started. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey 2,037 Report post Posted July 2, 2019 10 hours ago, porky said: 15k min stakes would return owners to horses and trainers in Business because you wouldn,t continually be dipping in the pocket to pay extras...vets, farriers etc,etc. it would become fun and a social thing attracting youngsters and grow from there. Oh Shit yeah , i remember Grey Way, On Show , No Show, Tono Bungay, Shivaree, Mop , Fraxy, Game,...... (that is off the top of me head)...don,t get me started. That can easily be achieved by just redistributing stakes, particularly some of these silly stakes up on Saturdays. Pam Robson, porky, dock leaf and 1 other 3 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
We're Doomed 4,824 Report post Posted July 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Huey said: That can easily be achieved by just redistributing stakes, particularly some of these silly stakes up on Saturdays. Exactly. The current system does not work in the SI, virtually the same horses go around for $25,000 and $11,000. Totally randomly this month Ashburton and Oamaru have the $22,500 minimums and Timaru goes around twice with $10,000 races. Timaru doesn't have a single $22,500 minimum meeting all year. And they try to restrict the $10,000 meetings to seven races and then when quite a few nominate at a feature meeting at Riccarton they split a race and end up running an extra race with six starters. They should be splitting races at the lower grade meetings so that horses gain form to try and get into the feature meetings. As Huey said, there is money there, but it is currently used very unwisely. What fool decided 65s should race for $22,500 rather than $20,000? That costs about $1.5m annually, and it makes no difference to field sizes as 65s fill up anyhow. I suppose you have to have some sympathy for Glenda, she probably didn't realise she would be working with fools. She probably expected industry people would be able to get the basics right. You can't expect the Board chairperson to have to make the tea and scones for Board meetings. Huey, Patiti, Pam Robson and 1 other 4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohokaman 5,763 Report post Posted July 2, 2019 1 hour ago, We're Doomed said: Exactly. The current system does not work in the SI, virtually the same horses go around for $25,000 and $11,000. Totally randomly this month Ashburton and Oamaru have the $22,500 minimums and Timaru goes around twice with $10,000 races. Timaru doesn't have a single $22,500 minimum meeting all year. And they try to restrict the $10,000 meetings to seven races and then when quite a few nominate at a feature meeting at Riccarton they split a race and end up running an extra race with six starters. They should be splitting races at the lower grade meetings so that horses gain form to try and get into the feature meetings. As Huey said, there is money there, but it is currently used very unwisely. What fool decided 65s should race for $22,500 rather than $20,000? That costs about $1.5m annually, and it makes no difference to field sizes as 65s fill up anyhow. I suppose you have to have some sympathy for Glenda, she probably didn't realise she would be working with fools. She probably expected industry people would be able to get the basics right. You can't expect the Board chairperson to have to make the tea and scones for Board meetings. Yes Ashburton is a bit strange today. Best winning stakes there $21k and $15k in two races. Compare that with Sandown today where every race is worth A$50k with winning stakes of A$27.5k.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berri 2,131 Report post Posted July 3, 2019 Getting back to the topic, bush pig's email is one of the biggest, self serving crocks of rubbish that I've heard of in a long time. You can only hope that we're going to get some real traction shortly, just so that all the politicians and junket junkies can really see just how ineffective they have been for the past 25 years. slam dunk, Baz (NZ) and Midget 2 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam Robson 1,537 Report post Posted July 3, 2019 8 hours ago, We're Doomed said: Exactly. The current system does not work in the SI, virtually the same horses go around for $25,000 and $11,000. Totally randomly this month Ashburton and Oamaru have the $22,500 minimums and Timaru goes around twice with $10,000 races. Timaru doesn't have a single $22,500 minimum meeting all year. And they try to restrict the $10,000 meetings to seven races and then when quite a few nominate at a feature meeting at Riccarton they split a race and end up running an extra race with six starters. They should be splitting races at the lower grade meetings so that horses gain form to try and get into the feature meetings. It's probably NZTR's way of making things difficult for Timaru as it is 'marked for closure'. IMO if someone puts a match to Ashburton's facilities we will all be done a favour. coro fan, Huey, ADM and 1 other 4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
porky 900 Report post Posted July 3, 2019 10 hours ago, Huey said: That can easily be achieved by just redistributing stakes, particularly some of these silly stakes up on Saturdays. just a silly question Huey...I realise we must be waaay smaller than Oz in most aspects of the Industry, BUT is that justification, and representative of the stakes difference?...and more importantly... how do admin. costs compare ?. We seem to throw good money after bad and still await improvements. (I,m only a silly punter now, but have been involved in the industry previously) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
slam dunk 1,317 Report post Posted July 3, 2019 1 hour ago, Pam Robson said: It's probably NZTR's way of making things difficult for Timaru as it is 'marked for closure'. IMO if someone puts a match to Ashburton's facilities we will all be done a favour. I thought you were returning to the scene of the crime with Nathan Detroit. What happened to the match? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam Robson 1,537 Report post Posted July 3, 2019 18 minutes ago, slam dunk said: I thought you were returning to the scene of the crime with Nathan Detroit. What happened to the match? Couldn't get away incognito..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey 2,037 Report post Posted July 3, 2019 1 hour ago, porky said: just a silly question Huey...I realise we must be waaay smaller than Oz in most aspects of the Industry, BUT is that justification, and representative of the stakes difference?...and more importantly... how do admin. costs compare ?. We seem to throw good money after bad and still await improvements. (I,m only a silly punter now, but have been involved in the industry previously) I don't know the answer to that, but you'd have to say our industry has been fairly averagely operated for years. I'm not sure why we need to compare ourselves to Aus.? I cannot see our industry ever being on a level pegging with them again., can you? Pam Robson and Black Kirrama 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
We're Doomed 4,824 Report post Posted July 3, 2019 2 hours ago, Pam Robson said: It's probably NZTR's way of making things difficult for Timaru as it is 'marked for closure'. IMO if someone puts a match to Ashburton's facilities we will all be done a favour. If I remember correctly, that Ashburton public stand was one of the last industry funded developments in the SI, back in the 80s? I can't remember if it preceded or came after Omoto. I think the Riccarton flash stand came later: now of course the only Riccarton stand. I actually think Timaru should be a very important course in the SI: something that the Messara people didn't seem to understand. It is very centrally located, invariably provides a good surface at any time of the year, and most importantly has room for expansion. I would love to see a Caloundra type development at Timaru. Any money allocated to the SI all-weather track should be spent to get Timaru upgraded. They should also swap with Waikouaiti and race on New Years Day. I hardly bothered to read the rest of the Messara report after seeing them recommend Timaru go and Waikouaiti stay; showed how little they knew. dock leaf, coro fan, Midget and 3 others 5 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
We're Doomed 4,824 Report post Posted July 3, 2019 1 minute ago, Huey said: I don't know the answer to that, but you'd have to say our industry has been fairly averagely operated for years. I'm not sure why we need to compare ourselves to Aus.? I cannot see our industry ever being on a level pegging with them again., can you? I think average is being generous Huey. I agree totally with your second sentence. There are one or two people on here, including yourself, who show more common sense than anyone currently running the show. I assume someone is running the show. Huey 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam Robson 1,537 Report post Posted July 3, 2019 10 hours ago, We're Doomed said: If I remember correctly, that Ashburton public stand was one of the last industry funded developments in the SI, back in the 80s? I can't remember if it preceded or came after Omoto. I think the Riccarton flash stand came later: now of course the only Riccarton stand. I actually think Timaru should be a very important course in the SI: something that the Messara people didn't seem to understand. It is very centrally located, invariably provides a good surface at any time of the year, and most importantly has room for expansion. I would love to see a Caloundra type development at Timaru. Any money allocated to the SI all-weather track should be spent to get Timaru upgraded. They should also swap with Waikouaiti and race on New Years Day. I hardly bothered to read the rest of the Messara report after seeing them recommend Timaru go and Waikouaiti stay; showed how little they knew. Agree wholeheartedly. To be fair to Ashburton, I was referring to the horse facilities which are awful. The stand is actually quite acceptable. The arrogance of our local administration is astounding with their assumption that Timaru stakeholders would meekly relocate to Ashburton when the track closures were implemented. That of course was dependant upon the allweather track being installed at Riccarton, which was supposed to uptake racing from the redundant courses. That looks less likely now. My concern now ( one of the many) is that NZTR will carry on implementing track closures without the penny dropping that the remaining tracks cannot take any more racing. To add to your thoughts, the facilities at Timaru, although dated, are excellent for horses and spectators alike and the track usually very fair. Huey, coro fan, ADM and 4 others 7 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightsOut 486 Report post Posted July 15, 2019 Hughes has just ended a tour of duty as Racing Board chair, a position that she was appointed to under the former National government to help fix a moribund and dying industry. Hughes' appointment ruffled feathers with the old school racing fraternity; there was talk about the new woman chair not knowing one end of a horse from another. But as Hughes pointed out, she didn't need to. Her role was to get the industry back on its feet commercially. She says she is proud of her achievements trying to turn things around in the sector after years of decline. But with the change of government came a new Racing Minister,, Winston Peters, who has pressed ahead regardless with a controversial restructuring plan which proposed replacing the board, slashing the number of race tracks and outsourcing the TAB's commercial activities. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/114181635/glenda-hughes-the-unlikely-conservative Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
We're Doomed 4,824 Report post Posted July 15, 2019 I've never really been sure what skills Glenda brought to the role that National thought made her so suitable. hedley and Huey 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gubellini 3,923 Report post Posted July 15, 2019 Glenda’s legacy is that under her stewardship the NZRB launched the financial equivalent of a full frontal red squad baton charge on racing participants. Many have departed overseas. Many trainers have had to down scale or seek employment with bigger trainers and many more have left the industry altogether. Thanks Glenda. ivanthegreat, We're Doomed, hedley and 1 other 2 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tripple alliance 1,007 Report post Posted July 15, 2019 9 minutes ago, gubellini said: Glenda’s legacy is that under her stewardship the NZRB launched the financial equivalent of a full frontal red squad baton charge on racing participants. Many have departed overseas. Many trainers have had to down scale or seek employment with bigger trainers and many more have left the industry altogether. Thanks Glenda. Well that's a load of horse crap , check out the nominations for Hastings on Thursday , incredible how many horses are going around at the moment and it's similar all around the country . Down here many are struggling to get a start . If trainers are struggling and down scaling their problem must be something else , it isn't a horse shortage , the industry seems to be pretty full at the moment . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tripple alliance 1,007 Report post Posted July 15, 2019 1 hour ago, LightsOut said: Hughes has just ended a tour of duty as Racing Board chair, a position that she was appointed to under the former National government to help fix a moribund and dying industry. Hughes' appointment ruffled feathers with the old school racing fraternity; there was talk about the new woman chair not knowing one end of a horse from another. But as Hughes pointed out, she didn't need to. Her role was to get the industry back on its feet commercially. She says she is proud of her achievements trying to turn things around in the sector after years of decline. But with the change of government came a new Racing Minister,, Winston Peters, who has pressed ahead regardless with a controversial restructuring plan which proposed replacing the board, slashing the number of race tracks and outsourcing the TAB's commercial activities. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/114181635/glenda-hughes-the-unlikely-conservative Lets see where we are in 12 months time , it will be interesting to see where the money is coming from then . In time we will be able to prove who and what has been successful . One things clear , Winston is playing many for fools , RITA included . Step one , bag the RB , they are to blame , step 2 , set Messara up with his report , step , 3 appoint RITA to implement Messara , if RITA fails don't blame me , blame Messaras report , if failure continues don't blame me , blame RITA who in turn can blame industry participants for not doing EXACTLY what Messara recommended . If all of the tracks recommended to close don't close then every administrator/ politician is off the hook , don't blame us , pretty good a . That's how it works , Winne can't be blamed , how can he be blamed when there are so many scape goats between him and the industry grass roots . I see he had a meeting with the Ausse foreign minister a day or two ago , asked by the Ausse media , did you discuss the treatment of Kiwis in Ausse , the ones with no rights and being deported , NOT DISCUSSED , at least he didn't fall asleep at the meeting , you know the one in Turkey . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gubellini 3,923 Report post Posted July 15, 2019 triple alliance I think you are being a bit selective. Plenty of maidens and R 65 horses about I agree. Last Friday 6 in the Open Hurdles and 5 in the Open Chase. Last Saturday 8 in both the Wellington Hurdles and the Parliamentary. Ruakaka 7 in the 2yo race and the R82 1600m and 6 in the R82 1200m. These numbers are a disaster for turnover. The facts are that many of the horses in these grades are racing overseas because of our pitiful stakes. Insider 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohokaman 5,763 Report post Posted July 15, 2019 1 hour ago, tripple alliance said: Well that's a load of horse crap , check out the nominations for Hastings on Thursday , incredible how many horses are going around at the moment and it's similar all around the country . Down here many are struggling to get a start . If trainers are struggling and down scaling their problem must be something else , it isn't a horse shortage , the industry seems to be pretty full at the moment . They are still running for peanuts...that hasn't improved one bit. porky 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tripple alliance 1,007 Report post Posted July 15, 2019 1 hour ago, gubellini said: triple alliance I think you are being a bit selective. Plenty of maidens and R 65 horses about I agree. Last Friday 6 in the Open Hurdles and 5 in the Open Chase. Last Saturday 8 in both the Wellington Hurdles and the Parliamentary. Ruakaka 7 in the 2yo race and the R82 1600m and 6 in the R82 1200m. These numbers are a disaster for turnover. The facts are that many of the horses in these grades are racing overseas because of our pitiful stakes. Yea I know , a bit selective but I don't think using a few jumpers is a good example or the odd r82 and the WGTN hurdles field was on par with recent times , the Parliamentary was about normal , the Trentham mud puts a few off but as I have said , else where there seems to be plenty of horses , perhaps they are all going around at the same time , it could be in a couple of months horses may be scarce, who knows . Ohokaman points out the peanuts , well that's true , it wasn't so bad when fields were small , most got something but competing in big fields for those same peanuts can't be much fun . One big mistake trainers make is not charging properly for their services , they worry to much about stake levels and charge accordingly , trainers are not responsible for stakes . A contactor I know was worried about what his clients were receiving for their product , again that wasn't his concern , his accountant advised him to ignore that and charge properly for his services as undercharging was sending him down the drain , he upped his fees , his clients paid and he returned to profitability . I guess theirs a risk owners may not pay but no point carrying on if you are not making a living . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stables 577 Report post Posted July 15, 2019 Triple Alliance, your comments reflect the attitude of too many trainers, times are tough, can't make enough money, can't get owners, lets put my fees up so that my remaining owners can maintain my standard of living. Down the road he finds that he has even less owners and can't understand why. Oh well time to put my fees up again Training horses is one of the few areas of employment where you can expect a greater return if you don't do a good job for your client. If a horse isn't performing they put the horse out for a spell and then bring it back into work thereby costing the owner another small fortune bringing it back to its former standard of fitness, finds that it is still not performing to a sufficient level to race, so turn it out again and the cycle continues. Eventually the horse might get to the races but will never earn enough money for the owner to get his money back 47South and chelseacol 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...