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We're Doomed

Time to end Jumps in the South?

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6 hours ago, coro fan said:

Hi Shad

 

I searched the exported horses list for April, May and June, and didn’t see Dee and Gee, so I don’t think so. I could have missed the name though - sometimes I need to go to Specsavers :D

Thanks for that, I read a while back that was the plan, just hadn't heard anything since.

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22 hours ago, Wright Road said:

Jockeys are “given” $300 but as yet some haven’t received it from the start of the season.

I think more jumps races and at least one high weight each jumps day would be more incentive for jockeys. We have some loyal jockeys that come year in year out and it would be nice to increase that pool, if the jockeys come the horses will come and the fields will improve.

JumpsNZ used to have such a voice at this time of the year, encouraging owners, incentives (we even got a all expenses paid trip to Trentham with our horse one year), and open discussion on how to improve things. 

We hope that this can return.

At least,  we at Riccarton do have reasonable schooling facilities - both hurdle and chase - so we don't have the need to travel for such opportunities.   Would certainly support some initiative that would help though.

The one thing no-one,  with the best will in the world,  can alter and that is the climate.   In Canterbury it is generally much drier than elsewhere and the ground is often just too hard for anything more than popping over the pony hurdles for practice,  so it makes sense to do something for southerners.

As for highweights - didn't they used to be run all year round?  If my memory serves me right,  I think Brown Satin won a highweight at Motukarara before winning the NZ Oaks [ then at Riccarton in November ].

I recall commenting to someone at management level [ years ago ] that it was a backward step to stop running highweights, I was told that the shortage of riders [ even then ] meant that flat riders wold have to carry a penalty [ 3 kg ]  and therefore no point running them.

I suggested making them welters,  just a tweak that meant owners weren't penalised.  Welters used to be run over the ditch too,  in Sydney at that time I think.  But no,  reactive,  never proactive,  our administration.

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19 minutes ago, Pam Robson said:

At least,  we at Riccarton do have reasonable schooling facilities - both hurdle and chase - so we don't have the need to travel for such opportunities.   Would certainly support some initiative that would help though.

The one thing no-one,  with the best will in the world,  can alter and that is the climate.   In Canterbury it is generally much drier than elsewhere and the ground is often just too hard for anything more than popping over the pony hurdles for practice,  so it makes sense to do something for southerners.

As for highweights - didn't they used to be run all year round?  If my memory serves me right,  I think Brown Satin won a highweight at Motukarara before winning the NZ Oaks [ then at Riccarton in November ].

I recall commenting to someone at management level [ years ago ] that it was a backward step to stop running highweights, I was told that the shortage of riders [ even then ] meant that flat riders wold have to carry a penalty [ 3 kg ]  and therefore no point running them.

I suggested making them welters,  just a tweak that meant owners weren't penalised.  Welters used to be run over the ditch too,  in Sydney at that time I think.  But no,  reactive,  never proactive,  our administration.

There is also a common misconception amongst punters and some owners that horses in HWs are slow or untalented when that is not always the case. 

Perhaps if they had more HW races as you suggest they may be able to rebuild the riding ranks creating more opportunities within  the industry for riders on race days which might transfer to assisting the trackwork ranks as well.

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2 hours ago, Pam Robson said:

Memory not THAT good...got the wrong venue..!

You got the right Island Pam. High weights would probably struggle as there just aren't the jockeys. Welters might be worth considering. I think they were tried once briefly, but then disappeared again.

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 Not surprising I suppose..just looked in depth at the G National programme....only a handful of races past a mile - on the flat -  no jumpers' flat,  no highweight  although jumps riders will be pretty thick on the ground...why not a nice hack race over 2500 or 2600...?   The Open ' staying' Hcp is 1800m.....???

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23 minutes ago, Pam Robson said:

 Not surprising I suppose..just looked in depth at the G National programme....only a handful of races past a mile - on the flat -  no jumpers' flat,  no highweight  although jumps riders will be pretty thick on the ground...why not a nice hack race over 2500 or 2600...?   The Open ' staying' Hcp is 1800m.....???

Riccarton's idea of a staying race is 1,800m. They must be the only major club in the country that has numerous meetings with no race further than 1,800m. Compare that to Australia with lots of metropolitan staying races. 2,500m race for 3yos at Flemington yesterday and a 1,600m race for 2yos. The furthest a 3yo can go in the SI all season against its own age group is 1,600m.

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1 hour ago, arjay said:

CJC cannot run 2200 races, that would be on the bend so no go. I seem to recall they did have 2000  races, could be wrong?

Riccarton most certainly can run 2,000m races. There are a few time honoured ones such as the Canterbury Gold Cup.

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11 minutes ago, TurnyTom said:

The 2500m races at CJC started in front of the stand - Palisade, Rose Mellay, Royal Master and Next Please loved them, but that's when we had rock hard stayers - today it's all about 2 and 3 year olds and Sprint races

They call it progress

There is a lot of scope to run staying races in the South for rating 80 and 70 types, just to break things up up bit and create some interest; also to complement jumps racing. Unfortunately when you programme  only 7 races at most meetings, there isn't any scope for trying anything a bit interesting or creative.

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The trouble is WD there is no central plan where clubs work together, the CJC National meeting will be as boring as batshit save but the Winter Cup, beyond that an industry meeting with larger stakes - can't be bothered

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49 minutes ago, TurnyTom said:

The trouble is WD there is no central plan where clubs work together, the CJC National meeting will be as boring as batshit save but the Winter Cup, beyond that an industry meeting with larger stakes - can't be bothered

Very true. It isn't looking like much of a Winter Cup either to be honest. The only thing it has in common with some of the great races in the past is the stake. I saw many winter Cups. Two I remember were Diamond Pal and Magellan; the latter on a rather unseasonal track. Everyone used to watch the National from the top of the public stand, but I believe that isn't used anymore and no plans to replace it. Hard to imagine many people will bother to attend.

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6 hours ago, We're Doomed said:

Riccarton's idea of a staying race is 1,800m. They must be the only major club in the country that has numerous meetings with no race further than 1,800m. Compare that to Australia with lots of metropolitan staying races. 2,500m race for 3yos at Flemington yesterday and a 1,600m race for 2yos. The furthest a 3yo can go in the SI all season against its own age group is 1,600m.

The Warstep is for 3 yr old fillies over 2000m

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8 out of the top ten betting events in the UK are jumping races. The program and structure of the jumping calendar is so well structured that it provides continuity and stickiness for customers. The price of jumpers in the UK has never been better. The highest priced bumper (a horse that hasn't run on the traditional flat racing) is 365,000 Euros. The highest priced steeple chaser is GBP 687,000 and hurdler Euro 470,000

The one reason that jumping is so popular is that they tend to have longer careers and people get to know them better. The staying component of jumping races tends to provide a better viewing event. 

We need to embrace these facts and get the whole system up and running again. One of those things that our leaders need to be hauled over the coals for letting this part of the industry slip so badly

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5 hours ago, Berri said:

8 out of the top ten betting events in the UK are jumping races. The program and structure of the jumping calendar is so well structured that it provides continuity and stickiness for customers. The price of jumpers in the UK has never been better. The highest priced bumper (a horse that hasn't run on the traditional flat racing) is 365,000 Euros. The highest priced steeple chaser is GBP 687,000 and hurdler Euro 470,000

The one reason that jumping is so popular is that they tend to have longer careers and people get to know them better. The staying component of jumping races tends to provide a better viewing event. 

We need to embrace these facts and get the whole system up and running again. One of those things that our leaders need to be hauled over the coals for letting this part of the industry slip so badly

That Darren Yates bloke over there is spending cash like it's to be outlawed soon. 170k for Don Poli, Gorden Elliott must have thought it was free money day offloading  him for that price . He won't win another race and is 25lbs below his peak now on ratings  , spent shed loads more on Blaklion and he's gone wrong . 620k for Interconnected and moving him from best in business looks gutsy , at least he has loads of upside . Cannot take it with you I suppose so good luck to him.

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Evening All

 

OPEN LETTER TO THE SOUTH ISLAND RACING COMMUNITY

 

Last Thursday, 8 August, during the Grand National Festival of Racing a jumps forum was held at Riccarton Park Racecourse.  It was strongly attended by a wide cross section of people from around the country interested in jumps racing.  A number of other people participated by teleconference.

 

The major item of discussion was the desperate state of jumps racing in the South Island and the impact that will ultimately have on the Grand National Festival of Racing.

 

It is a simple case of not enough participants and it will reach a time, unless that is reversed, when New Zealand Thoroughbred Racing will no longer be able to justify funding jumps racing in the South Island.

 

There is no magic wand and the racing people in the South, if they want jumps racing, must help themselves.

 

The meeting has requested that the South form a steering committee to rescue jumps racing and the purpose of this letter is to seek interested volunteers to join that Steering Committee.  The Steering Group would need to collate initiatives that will be implemented, in a proposal to NZTR / NZ Jumps Inc, by late September.

 

Time is of the essence so please forward this email on to your members, colleagues and friends that maybe interested in activitely participating in this steering committee.  The wider the spread of this invitation the better the chance of getting enthusiastic people to participate. Those interested need to respond by noon on Friday 23 August if you wish to be included.

 

 

Who should it go to:

  • Racing Clubs
  • Racing Club members
  • Owners Associations
  • Trainers
  • Breeders Associations
  • Any others that you can think of.

 

Kind regards

 

Paul ‘PC’ CLARIDGE

NZ Jumping Coordinator

PH 021 322 300

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I,was at that meeting, which was very well attended, and put my hand up to do whatever I could to help.

Jo Gordon was co-opted as the captain, she's a livewire and a good choice I feel....but it wont be an easy fix whatever course is taken.

It's a chicken-and-egg situation,   the reduction in races is a reaction to falling numbers,  but those numbers cannot increase when the races disappear ;  added to that is the uncertainty of closing venues, two of those on NZTR'S silly plan are jumping venues which, if implemented , leaves Dunedin and Riccarton only.

Riccarton smugly sits on the Grand National and does nothing for the rest of the year:  despite promising both more races, and assistance with forming/running syndicates to race jumpers it would be unlikely if anything changes there.

I rang the CEO next morning to ask if something could be started wrt to a syndicate or group as I had just been offered a potential jumper,  nah in the too-hard basket straight away.

The NZTR idea is that there is no more money for extra races, fair enough,   the outfit is strapped for money, we all know that - but for the four extra races that had been discussed,   the funding should be easily found from abandoned racemeetings....far more than would be needed.

A challenge indeed.

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1 hour ago, Pam Robson said:

I,was at that meeting, which was very well attended, and put my hand up to do whatever I could to help.

Jo Gordon was co-opted as the captain, she's a livewire and a good choice I feel....but it wont be an easy fix whatever course is taken.

It's a chicken-and-egg situation,   the reduction in races is a reaction to falling numbers,  but those numbers cannot increase when the races disappear ;  added to that is the uncertainty of closing venues, two of those on NZTR'S silly plan are jumping venues which, if implemented , leaves Dunedin and Riccarton only.

Riccarton smugly sits on the Grand National and does nothing for the rest of the year:  despite promising both more races, and assistance with forming/running syndicates to race jumpers it would be unlikely if anything changes there.

I rang the CEO next morning to ask if something could be started wrt to a syndicate or group as I had just been offered a potential jumper,  nah in the too-hard basket straight away.

The NZTR idea is that there is no more money for extra races, fair enough,   the outfit is strapped for money, we all know that - but for the four extra races that had been discussed,   the funding should be easily found from abandoned racemeetings....far more than would be needed.

A challenge indeed.

If they cannot organise a racing syndicate with their contacts and ability to contact those interested in racing they won't be getting too much of a of wiggle on with AWT or getting the old stand sorted . Shame as I thought they did well with the GN meeting .100 people 30 bucks a month for interest shouldn't be too hard for them to at least advertise in racebook to see the response.

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I really hope they can get things sorted. It's a vicious circle, right through. A lack of staying races for young horses, right through to jumps races, means no encouragement to breed stayers, which the South Island and New Zealand were famous for, and solid stayers make good jumpers, and jumps give another career for stayers to go on to.  I love jumps races, and staying races. Also have a couple of broodmares, hoping to breed some miler / stayers / which could go on to jumpers. I have shares in several syndicates, one of which is with social racing, which I came across on facebook. Social media can be used very effectively to bring "middle aged" and younger people in. People love following regular updates, even if it's just random photos, White Robe Lodge do a good job, and Isola Racing have a fantastic page. Pam Robson, you write very well, you could do a great page. Go outside the old school, maybe try to get a "jumps" page going. The CEO's obviously are going to be as much use as the proverbial Tits on a Bull. There's a lot of the jumps jockey's now who are well spoken and switched on, get them involved. It's amazing how many likes and followers a video of a jumper out having a hoon round their paddock will get, or a jockey, track work rider, trainer giving the horse a pat or cuddle, most of the people who would be interested in a share in a syndicate are horse lovers, many of them would love to have been directly involved but have never had the opportunity to, they love to see the behind the scenes stuff, not just the actual races. You need to pull their heart strings! If you want help with a facebook page Pam, I'm no computer wizz but I could help with something like that. Best of luck!

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Thanks, I'll P M you later.  

The thing I would struggle with,  is the ethics of getting people on board to race a jumper or two only to have NZTR scrap the remaining ones....which is very likely to happen.

We've only got a year or two at best to try and make some progress....and as well there are those who mutter darkly about 'wasting' races and funding on jumps races instead of putting on more flat races.

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