tim vince

If u had to choose

24 posts in this topic

Easy one here Tim - Amateurs for sure

ATC are being short sighted by not allowing Amateurs back.

The Monte race last Friday night showed where the level is at in relation to being a betting race- poor. 

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Remember when/why Amateurs were wiped at the park?    Was an Inter-Island race and the race was "a bit of a shambles" so the ATC said right - that's it.    After Friday the same may apply to Montes.    I have no preference for Montes over Amateurs or v.v. except I think either they run neither or both.     The only point I could make regarding last Fridays Monte was that there has been two or three workouts prior but these have all been stands then come Friday the ATC programmes a mobile over a mile which really is a bit dumb.    A few of the riders I think were having their first ride astride behind the mobile without any prior experience,     No doubt some of you will be thrilled to know the next Saddle Trot is scheduled for 5 July but will be a stand not a mobile (if sufficient noms)

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It wasn't a surprise to see 3 of the 7 runners gallop in Fridays monte,as they nearly always gallop in every race they have,,so surely racing in unfamiliar circumstances it was almost inevitable.  

The very slow first half of the mile also contributed as it lead to a bunched field... 

Also they were all woman riders.,some who couldn't seem to restrain their horses when they galloped.,that also I didn't think was much of a surprise.

As far as a spectacle goes ,it was a disappointment.

From a betting perspective it was just the same as any race. You just analyze the form and data you have and make your investments accordingly. Punting to me is about getting the best return you can, irrespective of whether it is a high quality or low quality field.   The monte paid out ,just like any other race.

 

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Neither, I'd rather see an extra junior driver's penalty-free race at every meeting. Get these kids out there as much as we can. That's not sayin the others don't have upside. BUt if we don't incentivise these juniors they will be off driving driving trucks or diggers soon enough and lost to the game.

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53 minutes ago, Toblerone said:

Neither, I'd rather see an extra junior driver's penalty-free race at every meeting. Get these kids out there as much as we can. That's not sayin the others don't have upside. BUt if we don't incentivise these juniors they will be off driving driving trucks or diggers soon enough and lost to the game.

The exodus of young  committed people leaving the Northern area is already a big concern ,with Jack MacK , Troy L , Jacob W and others quite recently.A trainer also told me he purchased a horse or two to train to keep a Junior driver in the cart. Respect to that man !

But the big issue  in Northern harness, without doubt is the lack of horses ......surely the fields this Friday with 66 horses is a clear indicator of this !

This is desperate times ....there needs to be desperate measures...not next year ,but now.

Hence I support both Amateur races and Montes being considered and being programmed to enable ATC to just hold their planned meetings.

The Montes need to be handicaps with a stand start ,and the field from last Friday[ 7 x Monte maidens ] plus past winners could increase numbers .

Amateur horses are established now and that class of horse should continue to race much longer ,with connections knowing they can earn part of their keep because they are racing similar standard horses. There may be two "Amateur Horse " races every night. One with Junior or pro drivers and one with Amateur drivers.

Bring in claiming prices on horses too ,so maybe groups of people can experience ownership for a few months and experience the 'highs and lows' of ownership.

Industry participants need to get their collective heads together to sort these issues out. Maybe the stables who appear not to be racing horses at present are in fact on their way out and have no intention of racing horses....the ATC should have a list of all horses intending to trial/race in the following month so they can plan and adapt their fields .Maybe a lot on holiday ??

In recent months a number of horses have come from down south ...great......but as Rod Croon [CEO] said at last weeks meeting ,without them some meetings could not have gone ahead.

So the situation already desperate.

Lincoln Farms announced they currently only racing two year olds , that they own ...they train a few older ones sent north by an  owner.

The main participants this Friday appear to be the Wallis/Hackett stable who 98% train trotters and the irrepressible T.Vince !Good one guys !

Where are the others ?

And as the 1 - win and above horses are often not racing 'like v like' they likely to be sold overseas by the sellers lurking behind the stable door sensing owners frustration at the rising costs and the reality of their horse being uncompetitive.

 

An "Amateur Horse' should be able to earn its keep !

Northern Racing need them right now !

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1 hour ago, Toblerone said:

Neither, I'd rather see an extra junior driver's penalty-free race at every meeting. Get these kids out there as much as we can. That's not sayin the others don't have upside. BUt if we don't incentivise these juniors they will be off driving driving trucks or diggers soon enough and lost to the game.

Isn't the difference Auckland has tried to run junior driver only  races, but due to the lack of numbers they have changed to the southland system of having penalty free wins if driven by a junior,or higher rated horses being race eligible if driven by a junior.

In other words Auckland have moved away from what you suggest because of a lack of support  numbers wise( for differing reasons)

In the amateurs case, Auckland chooses not to run amateur races, despite  being better supported numbers wise than most races currently run by auckland,, 

So you have the ATC with a deliberate policy of excluding a resource which they complain they don't have enough of.

The retention of juniors and other younger stable workers is a problem,but that is just another facet  of the industry which doesn't seem to have a successful working strategy.

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46 minutes ago, what a post said:

Isn't the difference Auckland has tried to run junior driver only  races, but due to the lack of numbers they have changed to the southland system of having penalty free wins if driven by a junior,or higher rated horses being race eligible if driven by a junior.

In other words Auckland have moved away from what you suggest because of a lack of support  numbers wise( for differing reasons)

In the amateurs case, Auckland chooses not to run amateur races, despite  being better supported numbers wise than most races currently run by auckland,, 

So you have the ATC with a deliberate policy of excluding a resource which they complain they don't have enough of.

The retention of juniors and other younger stable workers is a problem,but that is just another facet  of the industry which doesn't seem to have a successful working strategy.

I think there were only 3 nominations for the JD race this week - perhaps they would get a better response from trainers and owners if they were allowed the same privilege as the Monte races and have their own handicapping system within the JD grade?

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3 minutes ago, Taku Umanga said:

I think there were only 3 nominations for the JD race this week 

Probably......kinda my point.

Participants need to sit down and disclose what horses they have and what races they will line up in !

Only certain trainers/ owners in north will feel for the plight of the junior driver  or have horses for that particular grade.

Once you know this information then the program can be planned.

If me and my mates bring ' 6 x Amateur horses' from the South we want to know there are races for these horses and that they not merged into races with horses than can run 2.40 for 2200m !

And ,once again ,if horses aren't conjured up soon ATC meetings will be canned.Each time this happens $140k plus will not be distributed in stakes and the demise will speed up.

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Bring back claimers  .Any horses under 50 rating that has won a race should be racing claimers price them right everyone  has a turn .We had them in Auckland couple  of years ago but the boy's  down south didn't  agree with them so we lost another  15 or 20 horses hence the amateurs  got to race instead  of trials only 

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Trouble with claimers is not enough people up here are realistic on what there horse is worth. There would be plenty of rating 40-50 horses that could fit into a claiming systems but owners won’t  put realistic prices on there horses

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3 hours ago, hsvman said:

Trouble with claimers is not enough people up here are realistic on what there horse is worth. There would be plenty of rating 40-50 horses that could fit into a claiming systems but owners won’t  put realistic prices on there horses

Owners and a few trainers to 

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I see some former posters here sent packing to another site just cant seem to help themselves they love to come back and look at a site that has many contributors to many topics... thanks everyone keep up the good work...you are the ones who keep RC where it is...the leader in all things harness and all forms of racing.

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