Red Rum

Thatz David

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Few things about Thatz David . TAB has him both 3rd and last 7 of 7 last week. Odd stuff really .He ran last .

More importantly not quite sure why he's being risked again  159 runs , no form nowdays , 13 years old , no chance , deserves to get out alive , giving reasonably hard ride last week , will get no doubt another one this week. Not my idea of sport but up to owner . Someone could say oh well horses die in fields but a lot die over the sticks , is there any need to risk him.

I will eat some humble pie if he wins , he won't though .

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I tend to agree, but more the angle that it’s destructive for racing to have uncompetitive horses consistently going around, fades out well before the turn now and time NZTR gave them a warning of repeat performance tomorrow and he can’t race again until they are satisfied he can be competitive from trial or Jumpout form.

Your comment about a lot die over sticks is based on what? I haven’t seen much evidence of it, unless it’s well hidden and besides what classifies as a lot?.. My understanding was the mortality rate in NZ was just over 1 per thousand starts v UKs 2.5 at the worst. Neither figure to be honest fits the lot category, any racing death is tragic of course, but inevitable when competing as they do at these speeds with not much room for error as we witnessed last week in Brisbane.

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9 hours ago, Red Rum said:

Few things about Thatz David . TAB has him both 3rd and last 7 of 7 last week. Odd stuff really .He ran last .

More importantly not quite sure why he's being risked again  159 runs , no form nowdays , 13 years old , no chance , deserves to get out alive , giving reasonably hard ride last week , will get no doubt another one this week. Not my idea of sport but up to owner . Someone could say oh well horses die in fields but a lot die over the sticks , is there any need to risk him.

I will eat some humble pie if he wins , he won't though .

I HOPE THE jCA OR WHOEVER HAVE THEIR EYES FIRMLY ON THAT JOCK TODAY. SHOULDA BEEN STOOD DOWN FOR THE DISGUSTING TREATMENT LAST TIME.

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4 hours ago, barryb said:

I tend to agree, but more the angle that it’s destructive for racing to have uncompetitive horses consistently going around, fades out well before the turn now and time NZTR gave them a warning of repeat performance tomorrow and he can’t race again until they are satisfied he can be competitive from trial or Jumpout form.

Your comment about a lot die over sticks is based on what? I haven’t seen much evidence of it, unless it’s well hidden and besides what classifies as a lot?.. My understanding was the mortality rate in NZ was just over 1 per thousand starts v UKs 2.5 at the worst. Neither figure to be honest fits the lot category, any racing death is tragic of course, but inevitable when competing as they do at these speeds with not much room for error as we witnessed last week in Brisbane.

Give me a  bit of time I will dig out latest figures. Iam a big jumps fan , been to many  hundreds of NH meetings and Point to Points over the years , it's bloody dangerous to horse and jockey and I always have a bit of guilt I enjoy the sport so much when worst happens   . I will concede a lot as a figure is very subjective and is  not a figure . For example in one race last year at Cheltenham three were killed in one race that's a lot . 25 horses out of 1000 runners is to me a lot but I think the numbers quoted for UK may be slightly too high and it's been driven down through massive safety efforts  last few years . Remember there are horses that  go home after racing and are not seen on track again, HRI produce a weekly list of Irish horses who have died  , a number of those  fell in last run or were pulled up lame . Don't base your calculations on stewards reports alone , as the percentages quoted are are those fatalities on course on day.

Have a look  at Santa Anita, see the news reports on you tube , racing is on a tightrope in California , an old horse flogging round at back biting the dust won't do racing no favours . Anyway the worst never normally happens so hope iam totally wrong .

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42 minutes ago, Shad said:

Humans die on roads, and plenty of them, but we still drive cars.

You can walk if you want your choice  , iam totally  not anti racing , but horses don't get a choice if they don't want to race , if they refuse a few times like some do what happens to them ? Hopefully they are found another pursuit .

A few people die in the ring , iam a boxing fan , boxers get a choice know the risks accept the risk , so your example makes no sense at all .Rusty studies talking horses maybe he can tell you a horse that's been asked and replied yes they up for risk, I'd be more impressed if ones signed a waiver for risks involved .

 

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14 minutes ago, Red Rum said:

Remember there are horses that  go home after racing and are not seen on track again, HRI produce a weekly list of Irish horses who have died  , a number of those  fell in last run or were pulled up lame . Don't base your calculations on stewards reports alone , as the percentages quoted are are those fatalities on course on day.

I think we are all well aware of that, the reality is that plenty of those going around in jumps today and any other day don't have a future if its not for this. Jumps racing potentially gives them a future after racing also.

Look into the glass as half full RR rather than empty, focus on all those whom have made it  into other pursuits in a large part thanks to jumps racing. Many have gone on to become very useful horses to their current owners.

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14 minutes ago, barryb said:

I think we are all well aware of that, the reality is that plenty of those going around in jumps today and any other day don't have a future if its not for this. Jumps racing potentially gives them a future after racing also.

Look into the glass as half full RR rather than empty, focus on all those whom have made it  into other pursuits in a large part thanks to jumps racing. Many have gone on to become very useful horses to their current owners.

BB , we both racing fans , iam just one who's worried as I head closer to retirement when I  plan to spend plenty of time spending my hard earned at the races , going to the big tracks round the globe that there will any left as the anti brigade get a foothold . I agree racing needs to be robust in defence not shrink away in doubt as the glass in well in half full range for racing , it does good and many jumpers in UK IRE /NZ retire to other things more so than some of the flat types do over in UK.

When racing crops up in talk with non racing people and people slag it off I defend it , I cannot defend a 13 year old slogging through the mud  at 100s .

 

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No arguement from me there RR. Urbanisation of the last 30yrs will see racing done and dusted worldwide within 20yrs, young kids today have zero connection to animals other than a cat or a dog, everything else to them is cruel. Probably best to just get out and enjoy racing whilst it still exists in its current format RR.

Besides virtually no one in Palmy North would even be aware the races are on today & certainly would have zero idea that a 13yr old no chance horse is going around, the industry only has itself to blame for allowing the trainer to continue with it. 

TAB commentary on the race is worth noting:

Old THAT'S DAVID is worth a mention. This is incredibly his 8th attempt on the race.

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The display by the rider of David at his last start overrides all argument about the fairness of jumping races. The horse had obviously had more than enough and was no hope, in fact I was just hoping he got to the finish. using the stick on him 'vigorously" at that stage was genuine mistreatment . First time I have felt anger and sorrow for a horse on the track since the 2 yo carrying well over 60kg ( may have even been close to 70) broke down at Trentham a number of years ago.

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20 minutes ago, GOM said:

The display by the rider of David at his last start overrides all argument about the fairness of jumping races. The horse had obviously had more than enough and was no hope, in fact I was just hoping he got to the finish. using the stick on him 'vigorously" at that stage was genuine mistreatment .

To be fair here, he has been a bit of a rogue in the past and sometimes when ridden like that he has responded and rallied. But yes in general terms if another poor showing today NZTR should give him a warning of uncompetitiveness.

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4 hours ago, Rusty said:

We have a choice as to whether we drive cars. 

Do horses have a choice as to whether they go over the jumps at 13 years of age? 

Who knows, the horse may love racing and some do, and many break down running around in a paddock, dont see much difference, some also have a worse out come, as we all know.

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1 minute ago, Shad said:

Who knows, the horse may love racing and some do, and many break down running around in a paddock, dont see much difference, some also have a worse out come, as we all know.

Nah you are right. 

Slog the crap outta an old beaten up nag that in human years is well into their 40s and has shown no will for the racing game in recent times. It breaks down. Gets put down. 

Or a horse tearing around in a paddock at home, charging around like a lunatic and it buggers a leg. Gets put down. 

Dead right. Same result.

No difference at all really. 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Shad said:

Who knows, the horse may love racing and some do, and many break down running around in a paddock, dont see much difference, some also have a worse out come, as we all know.

Its a terrible look when he is fast retreating at the 1400 mark though, he should be retired on that run.

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kDead right Barry, I was biting my fingernails hoping the jockey wasn't going to put him under a hard ride to see if he was cheating. I noticed he still got a couple of whacks just for old times sake, even though he was 100m behind.

Bewildering that Rodley and the fish both selected him in their first three. Did they think he looed like an improver last week or were they taking the piss.

Shad I 'll  tell you the difference about him being hurt in his paddock or on the track. Firstly no one will be whipping him in the paddock and secondly we won't be forced to watch it

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4 hours ago, barryb said:

Urbanisation of the last 30yrs will see racing done and dusted worldwide within 20yrs, 

Aussie won't let that happen mate. 

"Sorry chaps, um yeah, sorry the Cox Plate, Golden Slipper nor Melbourne Cup will be held from the year 2039 due to this urbanisation thing". 

Had better shelve the plans for the Valley and Caulfied racecourses. No point going ahead with them at all due to this urbanisation thing. 

Been racing for 150 years in Aussie and it's not going to be rubbed out anytime soon. Maybe in NZ possibly, but Aussie is a different beast altogether. One look at the racing coverage in the Aussie daily newspapers and the mainstream media will tell you that. 

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12 minutes ago, Rusty said:

Been racing for 150 years in Aussie and it's not going to be rubbed out anytime soon. Maybe in NZ possibly, but Aussie is a different beast altogether. One look at the racing coverage in the Aussie daily newspapers and the mainstream media will tell you that. 

Just wait, the anti racing movement is gaining traction there & a change in Govt will fast track it.

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1 hour ago, barryb said:

Its a terrible look when he is fast retreating at the 1400 mark though, he should be retired on that run.

At least he jumped his fences and got around in one piece, do you think the ones that crash out is a better look, or is it because he is an old fella.We can't discriminate on age these days.

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5 minutes ago, barryb said:

Just wait, the anti racing movement is gaining traction there & a change in Govt will fast track it.

Couldn't even ban greyhounds in recent times (NSW) after the live baiting drama. They bloody should have banned it. Had the intention but never followed it all the way through, before reversing the ban. Couldn't do it. No urbanisation will kill the sport of kings in Oz. No tree hugging hippies will kill the game either. Especially not in Victoria. 

Tell 'em they're dreaming. 

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Just now, Shad said:

At least he jumped his fences and got around in one piece, do you think the ones that crash out is a better look, or is it because he is an old fella.We can't discriminate on age these days.

Aussie and HK do, mandatory retirements . HK at 10  i recall , Aussie might be end 10 yo season   plus too many donuts in a row in HK  and it's goneburger there .

Bashboy the good jumper a few years back was mandatory retired and he was a darn sight more up with play than Thatz David . Blimey 160 runs , trainer stated he needs shoving now , find him a new pursuit .They have done a great job to keep him going so long and he's done them a few favours , don't spoil it by going to well too often.

 

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26 minutes ago, Red Rum said:

Aussie might be end 10 yo season

Within the rules for racing in Victoria, horses require permission from the stewards to race if they are 12 years old. Vet clearance report or the like is required. As soon as a racehorse turns 13 it must be retired from the racetrack. 

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On 6/15/2019 at 9:57 AM, GOM said:

The display by the rider of David at his last start overrides all argument about the fairness of jumping races. The horse had obviously had more than enough and was no hope, in fact I was just hoping he got to the finish. using the stick on him 'vigorously" at that stage was genuine mistreatment . First time I have felt anger and sorrow for a horse on the track since the 2 yo carrying well over 60kg ( may have even been close to 70) broke down at Trentham a number of years ago.

do you remember the name of the horse? Or any other details? year? Trainer?

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Be very interesting to see what happens with Thatz David . He finished sound by looks of it but is totally uncompetitive,  however even at best would never live with a Grand Prix Du Paris winner , Sydney Cup winner at levels  who stable have really sweetened up, top job by them . I thought Gallante was awesome yesterday, he's a bit unlucky Coolmore didnt want him and he's  lost his tackle .Looked in good nick yesterday though so must be happy.

Also those last two winners at Sandown yesterday looked top notch , credit to Mike Moroney he has picked a couple of top horses there . That Buffalo horse has form around Royal Marine who's group 1 winner on ARC day and is  in next week at RA.

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