tim vince

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34 posts in this topic

32 minutes ago, tim vince said:

7 races at the park Friday.not good for anyone except maybe the club paying out less stakemoney.word on the streets is the building project  is not all rosy.talk of a mammoth loss.hope it's not true.

Yes Tim...nominations were dire ,I think they did a good job getting 7 together.

Surely better planning with Cambridge is a 'no brainer'.

Without your passion and others bringing a few north from South Island things would be worse ,if that possible !

I note there is a special AGM on June 19.

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18 minutes ago, tim vince said:

7 races at the park Friday.not good for anyone except maybe the club paying out less stakemoney.word on the streets is the building project  is not all rosy.talk of a mammoth loss.hope it's not true.

  How do you go from the building project setting up harness racing in the Auckland area  for years to come to mammoth losses.

Maybe someone needs to tell mick Guerin, he certainly comes across as spinning untruths. 

 

I'm no expert,but I was talking to someone last week from Auckland who runs a business  that gives advice on such projects. He said yes there is still  big money to be made,but you must know what you are doing,who you are dealing with, and most importantly realise there are major financial risks involved depending on how the deals are set up.

Looks like history will show those running the atc were out of their depth,ignoring the possible pitfalls of the business they got themselves involved in.

 

As to your 7 race fields. That recent press release about stakes at the atc remaining  high seemed to read like total spin,my take on reading between the lines was the same as what you are saying. In other words the club wants to run fewer races because the racing side of things is not profitable,and racing was already putting pressure on their already strained finances.

Anyway you don't have enough horses up there. From my observations those running your racing unbelievably have no plan to address that issue,

You can bury your head in the sand and blame the handicapping system, but thats just rubbish. No handicapping system will work with the limited number of horses you have. 

 

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I've heard that shortcuts were made during construction and some of it will have to be re-done . But again thats second hand or perhaps rumours flying. Time will tell when that meeting is held on the 19th.

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In 2015 the Board famously said that they were not interested in a joint-venture property development as they would make more by developing the project themselves. Unfortunately they didn't have the expertise too do so. May be heading towards a cash loss of $50 million plus the land value. Lets wait and see.

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No straight out guess but an estimate of the extra costs to complete building 1, interest costs of very delayed completion dates, numerous disputes still not settled, money needed to maintain high stakes and money needed to service and hopefully eliminate various mortgages on the clubs properties. 

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In recent months mick geurin has continually promoted the  atc stake increases,never ever alluding to the well known difficulties the atc is dealing with, which must undermine the very message he has been promoting.

Where is a story written by him,properly researched, which portrays the truth about the difficulties the ATC faces,directly as a result of decisions those who have run it have made.

Mick Guerin is a very knowledgeable bloke,but how can anyone take him seriously when it comes to reporting on the atc or trainers and drivers he knows. He is completely blinded by apparent loyalty. 

I've sat and watched him on the box seat paint this glowing picture of inferred prosperity of the atc.

I think his message has been fake,and he knew it to be. Why  and what does that say?

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Stables - obviously you are not a member of the ATC as you appear not to be aware that the ATC have called a Special General Meeting in a couple of weeks and for that matter the reason for this meeting.       Someone may know - is Mr Guerin still on the ATC payroll? 

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40 minutes ago, eljay said:

Stables - obviously you are not a member of the ATC as you appear not to be aware that the ATC have called a Special General Meeting in a couple of weeks and for that matter the reason for this meeting.       Someone may know - is Mr Guerin still on the ATC payroll? 

Not sure eljay but as the Herald racing journalist and Trackside presenter I'd imagine MG only contracted for certain events at ATC. 

As you say the Special GM on 19 June should include an announcement re the current situation of the Building project.

Rumours are that there have been serious issues past and ongoing so few in the club including the new CEO will know the exact position of the club as there must be much to unfold in the months ahed.

MG then would not be privy to information before stakeholders including members.

Im sure the clubs intentions re their harness meetings and future stakes are still relevant.

The desire to future proof the club and sustain good racing was admirable but the lack of horses has been even more dramatic than decreasing breeding/foal numbers indicated. Fewer horses than predicted have come north from the South and horses in the Intermediate grades still being sold .

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1 hour ago, Stables said:

It says that going by the stakes that the ATC are paying and the official information available, the club is thriving and any other opinion is based on conjecture and heresay, not fact

Yes,that is the message the likes of Guerin have conveyed.  Sounds like you believe it.

However as Eljay, has pointed out, the special meeting to be held in a couple of weeks may paint a totally different picture. Time will tell.

I just don't like anyone who knowingly misleads others, as if they are stupid or gullible.. Hey,if I have read it wrong I will admit my mistake. I'm only going on 2nd hand information. I hope for harness racing in the north islands sake,that your faith is justified. How will you feel if it isn't?

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9 hours ago, eljay said:

Stables - obviously you are not a member of the ATC as you appear not to be aware that the ATC have called a Special General Meeting in a couple of weeks and for that matter the reason for this meeting.       Someone may know - is Mr Guerin still on the ATC payroll? 

It would appear he is on many payrolls.  Better to have him inside perhaps??

 

Greg

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13 hours ago, We're Doomed said:

Do we really need trotting in Auckland, or even in the North Island for that matter? Trotting's support base is in the SI so perhaps it should consolidate down there where the horses are.

We (harness racing) are certainly Doomed, if was left for parochials like you to guide it's destimy!!

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18 minutes ago, We're Doomed said:

Not parochial at all. I thought it was a realistic suggestion. CD trotting has virtually shut down and it must get hard to sustain Auckland and Cambridge if there are very few horses up there.

IMO the ATC's intention's were sincere and sound to future proof the sport.

Promise good sustainable stakes with budgeted increased cash flow from the apartments and retail rentals of their developments.

It was expected this would give owners and trainers the confidence to increase horse numbers.

As a newcomer to club I asked at a  recent AGM why more 'like v like' races weren't planned among lesser grade horses including even amateur type of horses to get the field sizes up and the answer was that ATC should be catering for and aiming for a better quality of racing.

This answer infers that the lower classes belonged at Cambridge etc.This would be OK except that horse numbers have continued to dive in the North.

A couple of my syndicate horses have been sold but when races are cancelled through lack of entries or you are racing in wide bands of ratings and your horse has little or no show of even placing ,then it soon leads to moving them on.Then the rating system which can hammer your chances adds to the frustration.

What is puzzling to me is the fact that the ATC and Cambridge don't control the calendar and programming and work together to ensure even decent sized fields.

e.g. this week.....we are into winter racing now so instead of having 2 x meetings in two days with fields patched together...only 7 races at ATC surely a record low.....there should have been just the one meeting with decent sized and more even fields.Surely a win /win/win.All horses racing for better stakes ,more like v like , a better spectacle for betting and one club can cool heels for a week !

At this time ,desperate measures are needed and though you would not cancel a meeting a very short notice , some flexibility and collaboration would surely have a better outcome.

There are the horses in Waikato/Auckland area ....but expenses are much higher than in south ,even feed I believe.

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The ATC  chose the higher risk/higher return alternative did they not.

Don't current realities indicate they got it badly wrong. They won't be judged on good intentions.

Putting that to one side. 

Why is it those running the ATC think increasing stakes would result in increased numbers?   

For years they have been saying the same thing, and for years that has not happened,so why all of a sudden would a failed strategy work?.

The ATC aims to cater for the higher quality horse.  So they would rather programme 8 races and have 6 or 7 in them, rather than programme 10 races with many having full fields.    Its all about the quality.

Do  they  not realize how dumb that sounds, but that is how they think.    

As I've asked before,does a full field rating 40-to 45 with a good but lesser stake return the club more or less $  from betting than a 6 horse high quality field,normally dominated by a favorite?  And what about the fuller fields contributing to more connections turning up to the races, and the long term positive effect success,at whatever level,will have on future participation.

I actually think the atc has contributed to decreased participation with their high quality approach,and once those participants with horses lower in the ratings give up,,You won.t get them or their horses back.,and they don't get replacement horses...

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17 hours ago, JJ Flash said:

It would appear he is on many payrolls.  Better to have him inside perhaps??

 

Greg

Not sure why. Toe the party line...and distribute the rainbows and unicorns...?? He's been the ATC's flunkie for years going back to the Robert Death days. There are very few, if any, journalists today who will ask the hard questions, particularly about an organisation paying them.

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43 minutes ago, Ohokaman said:

Not sure why. Toe the party line...and distribute the rainbows and unicorns...?? He's been the ATC's flunkie for years going back to the Robert Death days. There are very few, if any, journalists today who will ask the hard questions, particularly about an organisation paying them.

 And anybody else would be exactly the same. What person trying to look after their future employment in any line of work, would openly and publicly criticise their employer? And even an independent journo wanting any inside scoop, has to tread carefully. Shit on your source once, and you've shit on your information supply. The racing journalism pool now is so small and so under-utilised, reading good gritty racing stories is indeed a thing of the past, except in the case of a scandal where mainstream media will report without fear of retribution or shitting in their own nest. The same people that criticise the likes of MG for not asking the hard questions, will be the same people that criticise mainstream media for reporting on any scandal that tars racing's image. 

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1 hour ago, Idolmite said:

 And anybody else would be exactly the same. What person trying to look after their future employment in any line of work, would openly and publicly criticise their employer? And even an independent journo wanting any inside scoop, has to tread carefully. Shit on your source once, and you've shit on your information supply. The racing journalism pool now is so small and so under-utilised, reading good gritty racing stories is indeed a thing of the past, except in the case of a scandal where mainstream media will report without fear of retribution or shitting in their own nest. The same people that criticise the likes of MG for not asking the hard questions, will be the same people that criticise mainstream media for reporting on any scandal that tars racing's image. 

What a cynical view of journalism. Sounds like you have never heard of the word " integrity."  

The fact that some journalists operate as you have described does not make it right.

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Well Mick Guerin back on the job tonight by at least interviewing the interim ceo of the atc.

 

Apparently racing as normal despite going from making $30 million to instead losing $40 million. A turnaround of $70 million.  

Seems they will have to sell  whatever assets they have to spare.

All very sad,will anyone be held accountable?

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On 6/6/2019 at 9:55 PM, what a post said:

What a cynical view of journalism. Sounds like you have never heard of the word " integrity."  

The fact that some journalists operate as you have described does not make it right.

I never suggested it was right. But it's the way it is, and it won't change anytime soon. That's just reporting the facts. 

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