poundforpound

Win a $1000 bar tab at HQ

35 posts in this topic

C’mon you whinging moaning entitled bludgers, let’s have a comp.

If anyone can give me one fair reason why the gummint/taxpayer should feed you bludging bastards ( as in the racing industry ) money/support rather than give it to education ( as in teachers ) and health ( as in keytruda )  I’ll give you ( one only, and let’s agree it’s the first reasonable claim ) a $1,000 bar tab at HQ, to be used before Melbourne Cup day this year.

Over to you you entitled outraged bludging parasites 

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I think a better question is why is our industry less appropriate for support than other subsidised industries in NZ.  Tourism has for example been provided $400million over a number of years in the form of a levy on tourists,  this will be collected at the airport on arrival.   The America’s cup has been given ~ $70million based on the expectation of people like yourself making a fortune as people flock to Auckland and no doubt your establishment.   Shane jones provincial funds has also gone to many industries, including forestry and agriculture.  

Many of the 20k - 30k people involved in the racing industry as track riders,  stable muckers,  and even trainers earn the same or less than those currently being subsidised by the government.  If you are not aware of the level of hardship then you may need to venture out from The city and visit the provinces where those at the bottom of the triangle are earning less than minimum wage.    I suggest that if everyone at the bottom of this industry triangle started changing what was required to get a living wage you would be the first to bemoan the rising  costs to run your hoby.  

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I certainly agree Racing, and all those who are involved in it at all levels, except for the well paid Racing Board, are more deserving of support than the Americas Cup. Just as others in society have no interest in Racing, I have zero interest in the Americas Cup.

Just to put it all into perspective, the good folk paying rates in New Plymouth are pouring $55m into propping up their rugby stadium. So in that context a few dollars of support for the Racing industry is surely not unreasonable.

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4 minutes ago, We're Doomed said:

I certainly agree Racing, and all those who are involved in it at all levels, except for the well paid Racing Board, are more deserving of support than the Americas Cup. Just as others in society have no interest in Racing, I have zero interest in the Americas Cup.

Just to put it all into perspective, the good folk paying rates in New Plymouth are pouring $55m into propping up their rugby stadium. So in that context a few dollars of support for the Racing industry is surely not unreasonable.

How often is that stadium full. Chch want a new one for big dollars , big derby game last week I could stretch out across a number of seats there . They cannot give tickets away . Total waste money imho.

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2 minutes ago, Red Rum said:

How often is that stadium full. Chch want a new one for big dollars , big derby game last week I could stretch out across a number of seats there . They cannot give tickets away . Total waste money imho.

My thoughts exactly. A total waste of money in Christchurch. Nobody will pay for live sport in a decade  or so as TV takes further control

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13 minutes ago, JJ Flash said:

My thoughts exactly. A total waste of money in Christchurch. Nobody will pay for live sport in a decade  or so as TV takes further control

Roads still potholed, shit housing in some parts and they want a giant empty stadium that in reality no one goes to. See how many go next week. They emailing supporters begging them to buy tickets next week, like I said they 100 per cent cannot give them away to get a full house , and they are best team . 

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Because giving money to the racing industry means it trickles down to people who enjoy life, drink in pubs and have a laugh. Good for the Wellbeing (:rcf-laughing-2:) of the country as we are otherwise turning into a bunch of wowsers.

Giving it to teachers would just lead to an increase in union participation and union fees and banana cake baking. Bit the same for nurses although I do like them more ....

 

 

 

 

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54 minutes ago, Gofta said:

I think a better question is why is our industry less appropriate for support than other subsidised industries in NZ.  Tourism has for example been provided $400million over a number of years in the form of a levy on tourists,  this will be collected at the airport on arrival.   The America’s cup has been given ~ $70million based on the expectation of people like yourself making a fortune as people flock to Auckland and no doubt your establishment.   Shane jones provincial funds has also gone to many industries, including forestry and agriculture.  

Many of the 20k - 30k people involved in the racing industry as track riders,  stable muckers,  and even trainers earn the same or less than those currently being subsidised by the government.  If you are not aware of the level of hardship then you may need to venture out from The city and visit the provinces where those at the bottom of the triangle are earning less than minimum wage.    I suggest that if everyone at the bottom of this industry triangle started changing what was required to get a living wage you would be the first to bemoan the rising  costs to run your hoby.  

But wait. The taxpayer is already giving racing $150m a year from their TAB earnings. And now you want more?

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I think the question should be why wouldn't a government support racing?

How much worse would it be for government's bottom line if racing collapsed and was no more? So let's take a look at the big picture to see if racing is worthy of government support.

How much taxation does the consolidated fund receive from the entire racing industry from all those employed in it, business's that are in existence solely because there is racing, and a ton of subsidiary business's that feed into racing. The taxation form wages etc and 15% gst and I haven't even mentioned the income from betting taxation. Breeding may not entirely collapse because of the export market but it ould have an impact on GDP as sales would reduce.

30,000 it is estimated derive their income directly from the racing industry. If racing collapsed, firstly the taxation drop from all sources going to government would have a huge impact. Secondly, any such collapse would have an impact as the government's costs would increase in the form of increased different welfare payments becoming necessary as a lot of those 30,000 people would become unemployed. Socially any collapse of the industry would be a fiscal disaster.

Their consideration therefore should be on what is best for the economy as a whole. To me it would certainly make sense for government support as any collapse would be just as much a disaster for any government as it would be to the industry. If that occurred there would be no winners.   

 

        

 

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8 minutes ago, rdytdy said:

30,000 it is estimated derive their income directly from the racing industry.  

Where do you get that figure from Ted? I'm skeptical.

Also, even if it is 30,000, from a taxpayer and economic perspective, do you not think their efforts would be better deployed in industries that are self-sufficient, sustainable and don't require taxpayer support to survive?

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1 hour ago, poundforpound said:

Just read the article quoting Parker....then give yourself an uppercut

Next idiot please .....

 

Government announces extra millions for America's Cup - NZ Herald


https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12171240

Why is PFP allowed to abuse people on this site and when members reply they are blocked.  Is he funding this it’s?  If so this should be transparent. 

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1 hour ago, We're Doomed said:

I certainly agree Racing, and all those who are involved in it at all levels, except for the well paid Racing Board, are more deserving of support than the Americas Cup. Just as others in society have no interest in Racing, I have zero interest in the Americas Cup.

Just to put it all into perspective, the good folk paying rates in New Plymouth are pouring $55m into propping up their rugby stadium. So in that context a few dollars of support for the Racing industry is surely not unreasonable.

There's a huge difference....the return to the economy of $$550m-$1B plus the additional tax take for the Government. We can argue over those figures but that's what drives the investment. The contribution Racing makes to the economy gets lost in the ether somewhere, or just isn't sexy enough to matter....

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Give racing not a cent.

John Carter told them some 12 years ago get your house in order then we will talk

Along came Fair Tax and they blew that like a 6 year old with a bag of lollies

Our current leadership us woefully inept

As a group Racing  holds billions of underused - simply not used assets

And they have their hand out - no bloody way

 

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1 hour ago, Leggy said:

Where do you get that figure from Ted? I'm skeptical.

Also, even if it is 30,000, from a taxpayer and economic perspective, do you not think their efforts would be better deployed in industries that are self-sufficient, sustainable and don't require taxpayer support to survive?

Yes Leggy like the Regional Development Fund :rcfe-happy-1:

 

Greg

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3 hours ago, Leggy said:

Where do you get that figure from Ted? I'm skeptical.

Also, even if it is 30,000, from a taxpayer and economic perspective, do you not think their efforts would be better deployed in industries that are self-sufficient, sustainable and don't require taxpayer support to survive?

Well they have found another $1 billion to throw down the Kiwi Rail toilet Leggy.

As to the fiqure as at 2016/17 there were 14,398 employed full-time in the industry. You can at least double that with all the part-timers engaged. 

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1 hour ago, rdytdy said:

Well they have found another $1 billion to throw down the Kiwi Rail toilet Leggy.

As to the fiqure as at 2016/17 there were 14,398 employed full-time in the industry. You can at least double that with all the part-timers engaged. 

Thanks Ted but I think you should read that size and scope report again.

Firstly, the figure you quote, 14398 is FTE, so includes part-timers. The report goes on to clarify that:

"OF THE 14,398 FTE JOBS SUSTAINED BY THE NEW ZEALAND RACING INDUSTRY AROUND 46% ARE THE DIRECT RESULT OF THE RACING INDUSTRY ACTIVITY WHILST THE REMAINDER ARE IN DOWN-THE-LINE INDUSTRIES THAT PRODUCE AND SUPPLY GOODS AND SERVICES FOR RACING IN NEW ZEALAND"

So, I'd suggest you try "at least" halving that  rather than doubling it and not listen to the snivelers bandying these figures about.

It also appears that even then, a very loose definition of the racing industry has been applied to expenditure figures: "associated with producing racing animals (breeding & rearing), preparing racing animals (training), racing customer expenditure and expenditure by the racing industry and racing clubs on operating the industry".

That seems to me to include the wagering and breeding industries for starters along with a number of service industries. The grizzling however, is mainly coming from the true "racing industry" which seems to have some sense of entitlement to increasing amounts of taxpayer funds.

To me, the biggest risk of becoming an even greater government beneficiary is that that brings increasing government control and worse, the possibility that all the so called benefits could be later wiped out with the stroke of a legislative pen.

With respect to your Kiwirail argument, I don't think other examples of government "wasting" taxpayer funds makes a very robust case for wasting more on racing.

 

 

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1 hour ago, rdytdy said:

Well they have found another $1 billion to throw down the Kiwi Rail toilet Leggy.

As to the fiqure as at 2016/17 there were 14,398 employed full-time in the industry. You can at least double that with all the part-timers engaged. 

Delicious ironic flip flop there.

Prebble told me that when the Lange crew removed the rail monopoly and deregulated transport so trucking thrived their cabinet paper said the cost in human terms would be 20 road deaths per annum....yes Labour signed off on 20 fatalities a year.!!!

Now this current clueless mob are trying to invert that deregulation and put the emphasis back onto rail, and it follows, away from trucking.

The flip flop crew....

Name one single policy they’ve managed to bring to fruition.....I’ll name their biggest failures, CGT, Kiwi Build, Uni subsidised incentives....they can’t find the finishing line on anything....except “well-being” because that can’t actually be measured so they can’t fail at it.....

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5 hours ago, rdytdy said:

How much worse would it be for government's bottom line if racing collapsed and was no more? So let's take a look at the big picture to see if racing is worthy of government support.

Ted, if Racing collapses it’s because it’s neither competitive nor sustainable.....why would the gummint intervene when an industry fits that description, any more than it should intervene if say the goat industry collapsed ( as it did ).

If your time is up, and you haven’t adapted, or your ,leadership and use of assets is so chronically dysfunctional, then you should be left to die a natural death. It’s called survival of the fittest Ted....

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3 minutes ago, poundforpound said:

Ted, if Racing collapses it’s because it’s neither competitive nor sustainable.....why would the gummint intervene when an industry fits that description, any more than it should intervene if say the goat industry collapsed ( as it did ).

If your time is up, and you haven’t adapted, or your ,leadership and use of assets is so chronically dysfunctional, then you should be left to die a natural death. It’s called survival of the fittest Ted....

True.. but the analogy/point I was trying to make is if it sustainable ie in net worth to a government then wouldn't it make sense to provide some investment by them to see it continue and even grow. Much like a farmer putting fertilizer to make the grass grow in a paddock. Without proper investment/and management then no improvement is likely.     

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1 minute ago, rdytdy said:

True.. but the analogy/point I was trying to make is if it sustainable ie in net worth to a government then wouldn't it make sense to provide some investment by them to see it continue and even grow. Much like a farmer putting fertilizer to make the grass grow in a paddock. Without proper investment/and management then no improvement is likely.     

The difference is that the farmer pays for the fertiliser from the increased production. He/she doesn't ask the taxpayer to pay for it.

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The clubs are asset rich - look at Ellerslie an Alexander Park, Levin put a retirement village along the back straight and that group, village operators, is screaming out for land

It us all too simple but they don't see it

Look at Doomben and their multi level apartments

So bloody simple

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Tom is correct 

No gummint should ever help racing until we develop tools to utilise our billions in real estate assets, until we stop wasting all our money on stakes,  and until we have a clear strategy that’ll bring this industry up to global standards and make it sustainable 

I had the pleasure of attending Destiny Church this morning, Sir Mark Solomon spoke ( as did I ) on Ngai Tahu and their treaty settlement.

The state owed Ngai Tahu 16-20 billion according to Treasury and Credit Suisse (sp?) for treaty breaches and stolen land, but the gummint said our offer is 170 million, take it or leave it...so Ngai Tahu took it because they’d already spent 20million fighting for a settlement, and they backed themselves to use the 170 million well.

At the end of this last financial year Ngai Tahu had 1.9 billion in net assets 

Do I need to tell you the moral of the story ??

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