Byron Rogers 1 Report post Posted May 30, 2019 Genomics have changed a lot of industries and the Thoroughbred industry is one also with both mitochondrial DNA and Y-Chromosome DNA changing our historical record of ancestry. Changing the data for what we now know to be true and making the pedigree of Bend Or being out of Clemence (not Rouge Rose) and Galopin being by Delight and the pedigree of the leading racehorse and champion sire Teddy looks a lot different (and more interesting) As does the pedigree of the leading sire Tracery. Breeder and Nearco 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey 2,037 Report post Posted May 30, 2019 Looks complicated Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nasrullah 180 Report post Posted May 31, 2019 thanks Byron. Have always enjoyed reading your blogs. While I really enjoyed your blog on mega nicks, could I ask you to do one that is from recent times.( Say last 10 years) This will mean a smaller data set. Could you go down to a data set of 10 foals of racing age. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nasrullah 180 Report post Posted May 31, 2019 Byron , can you also confirm the tail line of Galopin is still 3i have these changes been updated on data sets world wide? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byron Rogers 1 Report post Posted May 31, 2019 I've put up a web site that helps marry Lowe numbers with actual mtDNA sequences https://mtdna.azurewebsites.net/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HH88 23 Report post Posted June 1, 2019 The interesting aspect of the Bend Or finding is that the likely effective line breeding in the very successful and prolific blend with Macaroni mares remains the same with either Rouge Rose or Clemence. Whilst Clemence introduces line breeding to Banter, the line breeding to Derby winner Election and his full sister in blood the unnamed dam of Derby winner Moses (Sister to Castanea) remains intact. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byron Rogers 1 Report post Posted June 1, 2019 HH88. Yes. A lot of the BendOr/Tadcaster - Macaroni cross remains the same. It does make the relationships to other stallions like Hampton (in Teddys pedigree as example) significantly different. May I politely suggest that instead of using Lowe numbers you look at the actual mtDNA haplotypes. I think that you will find this more illuminating as relationships between horses become far more impactful when they share the same mtDNA haplotype. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byron Rogers 1 Report post Posted June 1, 2019 HH88 As an example of the above. Bend Or, with the pedigree of Tadcaster - With Doncaster (carrying Pocahontas + Banter) and Newminster (Banter) and Martha Lynn and hailing from the 2-H family, becomes a lot more interesting for Teddy's granddam Doremi who has Macaroni (Banter) but is out of a mare that has 2 strains of Touchstone (Banter) and Voltigeur (Martha Lynn) and is from the 2-N family. An easy reading of the new Bend Or pedigree is that because he is from the 2-H family and Doremi is from the 2-N family they are distantly related. However, when you actually look at the mitochondrial DNA, which is inherited tail female, Teddy's pedigree becomes a little more interesting. Bend Or/Tadcaster - L4 mtDNA haplotype Doremi - L4 mtDNA haplotype Ormonde - L3 mtDNA haplotype Hampton - L2 haplotype Lord Clifden - L4 Haplotype. Lord Clifden, who is the same Newminster/Martha Lynn combination as the dam of Bend Or/Tadcaster is actually from the same mtDNA haplotype as Bend Or/Tadcaster and Doremi (who is also bred on the same name combinations). They are all - Ormonde and Hapton included - more distantly from the same "L" mtDNA haplogroup (the L Haplotype being the largest in the Thoroughbred breed). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phar Lap Fan 104 Report post Posted June 19, 2019 Will all the by 'AAAA or BBBB' sires in pedigrees be eliminated now? Hope that the traditionalists don't retain their bewilderment, because it's traditional'. Can the 'mystery' of Northern Dancer, as proposed by Harold Hampton, be solved now? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
diomed 26 Report post Posted October 27, 2023 Will all the by 'AAAA or BBBB' sires in pedigrees be eliminated now? Hope that the traditionalists don't retain their bewilderment, because it's traditional'. Can the 'mystery' of Northern Dancer, as proposed by Harold Hampton, be solved now? Does Harold Hampton mention this in his third book, compiled by Clive Harper? What is the mystery? I did a piece on Northern Dancer early in 2023 where I pointed out that a horse in his pedigree has a unique feature not found in the other 650,000+ horses in my data. Breeder 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiknsmack 490 Report post Posted October 28, 2023 Is that the Kamara/St Leonards cross? If it's truly and properly unique, it's very interesting. (It's still interesting even if not unique.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
diomed 26 Report post Posted October 29, 2023 20 hours ago, chiknsmack said: Is that the Kamara/St Leonards cross? If it's truly and properly unique, it's very interesting. (It's still interesting even if not unique.) I checked and it was only once in my data. There were a few dozen chances of it happening in other pedigrees but I checked and it was only in Arbitrator (f), 3rd dam of Northern Dancer. Of course it was also in full siblings of Northern Dancer (none any good), anf other descendants of Arbitrator. You can not say it was the source of Northern Dancer's breeding ability. You can only say he and a few others had it, and one of them was very good. https://www.sport-horse-breeder.com/Northern-Dancer-Decode.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...