tim vince

Rating 40 to 55

19 posts in this topic

13 hours ago, tim vince said:

Also why couldn't the w ballots start off a mark in maiden trot.give every horse possible a run

Short answer (probably) is they never thought of that!

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Hi there

If I owned a R40 trotter in the race in question (at Alexandra Park) I would not be unhappy that the R50+ horses are on the same mark in this race. Simply for the reason I am getting a shot at a $20K stake and four of the six R50-55 trotters are inexperienced and have not earned a lot of stake money yet. The other two are experienced, nice horses but not superstars.
Don't I get the easier race, for lower stakes, with handicaps for higher rated horses, at other Northern racing venues?

Race 7 Auckland - BGP Wish For Fish Trot
R40-49 : Ten Horses
Wins: Min 1, Max 12 
Stakes: Min $18K, Max $136K

R50-55: Six Horses
Majestic Moment: 47 starts, 4wins & $40K
Kay Cee : 4 starts, 1 win, $10K
Vatican Hill : 13 starts, 1 win, $16K
Locksmith : 7 starts, 1 win, $8K
Sunnys Little Jestic : 3yo Filly, 15 starts, 2 wins, $31K
Stow : 38 starts, 2 wins, $41K
 

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45 minutes ago, tim vince said:

After a reply from the handicapper I realise the rating system is doomed.they just don't get it.

Would be interested to know what the handicapper told you Tim. Are you able to share it with us?

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The first race was programmed for non-winners. One that basis, none of the acceptors for the later race were eligible for the first, so adding runners from handicaps was never an option.

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I can mate I will summarise tomorrow.basically horse like danke have had so many wins and stakes it's not fair  on a 55 rating horse who has had only 1 win. My answer of course if that is true why bother with a rating system.a 15 point spread to me demands a handicap.it shows to me rating system is a failure or the  handicappers aren't doing their job or more than likely  not allowed to do their job by a sub committee that just don't get it. The public will show how they rate danke off the same mark as 55s by what it is paying.

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We do have challenges in the Northern NI with a small pool of horses and inevitably fields may have a wide rating band.  As an owner I would like to see the Northern clubs be a bit more inventive with conditions to mix things up.  For example, if this same field of trotters was starting from a mobile with the draw based on money earned from the last 5 starts instead of ratings, the recent novice winner would still get the worst draw but the next would be an R44 horse and an R51 would be drawn 3. As it is, with 8 unruly horses (which includes the high rated novice) it is likely that by putting the rest off the front, there will be a better chance of a clean fair start for all.

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On 5/21/2019 at 7:55 PM, tim vince said:

I can mate I will summarise tomorrow.basically horse like danke have had so many wins and stakes it's not fair  on a 55 rating horse who has had only 1 win. My answer of course if that is true why bother with a rating system.a 15 point spread to me demands a handicap.it shows to me rating system is a failure or the  handicappers aren't doing their job or more than likely  not allowed to do their job by a sub committee that just don't get it. The public will show how they rate danke off the same mark as 55s by what it is paying.

You are right Tim.  Effectively they are overcoming the rating system by  carding fields with 15 point spread when they could card a 40 -47 and a 48 -55 trot.

You have to wonder what is the point of letting an  out of form  horse fall back to rating 40 when it will end up in a field with 55 rated horses anyway.

Also Danke has been out of form for a long time, hence his low rating, so he should be in with the poorer performed horses.  For me the rating system was  designed so horses race against others it can be competitive with.  What the horse did 2 or 3 years ago is not relevant.   Wasn't that the whole idea of ditching the old system?

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The positive is this week the owner/trainer had options.
1. Race at Auckland for $20,000 stake on level marks with freshmen trotters rated higher
OR

2. Jump on the float to Manawatu to have a 10m+ headstart in races to the value of $18,000.


 

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51 minutes ago, tim vince said:

Invercargill looks as bad maiden 49 against 55 on level marks

Nothing wrong with that as the connections of the only non win horse who accepted chose to start in that race.  I assume in preference to,or as well as the up coming non win trot at forbury later in the week..   

I agree with your earlier point about rating 40 horses deserving  a handicap over rating 55 horses.

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5 hours ago, lamour said:

You are right Tim.  Effectively they are overcoming the rating system by  carding fields with 15 point spread when they could card a 40 -47 and a 48 -55 trot.

You have to wonder what is the point of letting an  out of form  horse fall back to rating 40 when it will end up in a field with 55 rated horses anyway.

Also Danke has been out of form for a long time, hence his low rating, so he should be in with the poorer performed horses.  For me the rating system was  designed so horses race against others it can be competitive with.  What the horse did 2 or 3 years ago is not relevant.   Wasn't that the whole idea of ditching the old system?

Totally agree with last part of statement. Current form should be taken into account and the handicapper/ clubs should be permitted to have some discretion in how fields are drawn up rather than being completely dictated by ratings. With sadness we've just sold our good trotter to Aussie.  Unlike Danke who at least has had 9 3rd placings this season, the best our fellow had was 1 3rd and his last win was in 2017. Yet because of historic form, would still be the back marker at Auckland. Been too tough on the horse and our wallets for too long. I also think a novice trotter that happens to win very early in its career shouldn't be crucified either. 

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