Iraklis

The Mighty Laz

23 posts in this topic

10k is a bit steep for a son of BD and being a first season sire. I would have said 5k was a fair price to pay, would maybe even get more mares. Loved the horse, but it will be interesting to see where he stands at stud. Also same can be said about Ultimate Machete.

 

I'd prefer to go to Vincent for a first season sire.

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I’m in two minds about this.   10k is quite steep for an unproven stallion.  It’s a shame he won’t be in Nz but I guess in the end he is still available here with frozen seamen.   Profits will be going to Aussie Harness but it’s better than going to USA.   I think he will get a good book in spite off fee as still cheaper than BD.  

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Lazarus has one very significant piece of history to overcome if he's going to make the grade as a sire...

Despite the endless stream of superstars to emerge from the All Star barn not a single one has gone on to become a successful sire.

Maybe Lazarus, Vincent or Ultimate Machete will turn the tide.

Watch this space.

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1 hour ago, JackSprat said:

Lazarus has one very significant piece of history to overcome if he's going to make the grade as a sire...

Despite the endless stream of superstars to emerge from the All Star barn not a single one has gone on to become a successful sire.

Maybe Lazarus, Vincent or Ultimate Machete will turn the tide.

Watch this space.

Else and Changeover never really made it either and they were not trained by All Stars  

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No matter how good a horse was or how well bred, there is no guarantee of success as a sire. That is why 10k is  very steep for a new stallion.

I would probably take a chance on him before Vincent or Ultimate Machete though.   

I guess if he really makes it as a stallion then he will boost stakes in NSW giving stables here a chance to go over there and win  some of the money back.

It would seem to be a risk for NSW Harness  and if he doesn't make it, it may hurt their finances  depending on what sort of deal was done.

 

Many great horses have failed as stallions and then others like Vance Hanover that couldn't run fast enough to keep warm was highly successful.

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44 minutes ago, Fartoomuch said:

Else and Changeover never really made it either and they were not trained by All Stars  

The fact pointed out was about the one chapter still missing from the All Stars legacy.

What the heck have Elsu and Changeover got to do with the price of eggs?

You really do have trouble keeping up with the conversation sometimes don't you!

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2 hours ago, JackSprat said:

The fact pointed out was about the one chapter still missing from the All Stars legacy.

What the heck have Elsu and Changeover got to do with the price of eggs?

You really do have trouble keeping up with the conversation sometimes don't you!

The fact that you raise the matter and the way in which you did comes across as casting  aspersion's on team AS. Likewise G Smalls superstars were not much chop either or as you put it none of them were successful sires but yet both were very talented horses.

Tell us why you think the AS team have not uncovered a successful sire, you seem to think you know a bit

The last bit ill ignore as its you getting a touch personnel which is not something i engage in unless really provoked

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This thread is a specifically about Lazarus and his impending stud career. The point I raised was an interesting sidenote to the topic at hand.

No "aspersions" have been cast anywhere except by you. I on the other hand suggested the current crop of All Stars retirees may be the first to succeed at stud.

Why you feel the need to continually turn threads into "for or against All Stars" debates is beyond me.

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Hey Jack mate, I can kinda see what FTMuch is on about ie. line of your post in bold for emphasis on what you had to say, could be construed as a thinly veiled dig at AllStars, I make the point it really doesn't matter what barn the stallion comes through, he's either got the 'goods' or not, and yes can also see where Laz, Machete, and Vincent should they prove a success at stud could add that last string to the AllStars bow re certain braggin rights to who's barn they came through on their journey's....   :rcfe-happy-2:

 

Cheers Iraklis

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IT is only slighly interesting where great sires were trained. It is not in AS job description to create sires. Once a horse leaves Rolleston their jobis done. The measurement of stallion success is subjective anyway. The big boys such as Bettors/Art Major/Mach three/ are clearly A 1. but have now reached a stage where in recent years they have all the best mares so the old adage success breeds success is apt. Some lesser sires have done very well with small crops and average mares sometimes referred to as breed improvers as they lift ordinary families .Now if Mark and Natalie had a spare barn or 2 and decided to stand their own top bred and performed racehorses the discussion would be valid . (no doubt if they did they would succeed as with everything else they do )

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23 hours ago, JackSprat said:

Lazarus has one very significant piece of history to overcome if he's going to make the grade as a sire...

Despite the endless stream of superstars to emerge from the All Star barn not a single one has gone on to become a successful sire.

Maybe Lazarus, Vincent or Ultimate Machete will turn the tide.

Watch this space.

How many former All Stars trained stallions have stood at stud? Can you name them for us please? I'll start the ball rolling for you... Highview Tommy. What others are there?

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11 hours ago, 2Piper said:

From Barry's stable 

The Unicorn

Mark Craig

Reba Lord

Dare You To

Hitchcock 

Sure to be more

 

Barry's stable is not the All Stars.

Mr Jack Sprat made the call about All Stars stallion failures but as yet he has not named any All Stars trained entires that have gone on to be unsuccessful at stud. So far we have three confirmed stallions - Highview Tommy and Auckland Reactor. Both have left winners the latter the better of the two so far. Il Vicollo was a while ago so I am not sure bout his siring record but fair to say he left nothing as good as himself.

Edited by Thejanitor
graphics

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My original statement of ... "Despite the endless stream of superstars to emerge from the All Star barn not a single one has gone on to become a successful sire."  ... pointed to what I thought was an amazing stat that despite a couple of decades of dominating the industry not a single colt had gone on to become a commercially successful sire. No mention of failures, of which there have only been a handful anyway, but the sheer lack of candidates!

The only ones I can think of that haven't already been mentioned are Ohoka Arizona and Fly Like An Eagle.

 ...

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9 hours ago, Thejanitor said:

 

Barry's stable is not the All Stars.

Mr Jack Sprat made the call about All Stars stallion failures but as yet he has not named any All Stars trained entires that have gone on to be unsuccessful at stud. So far we have three confirmed stallions - Highview Tommy and Auckland Reactor. Both have left winners the latter the better of the two so far. Il Vicollo was a while ago so I am not sure bout his siring record but fair to say he left nothing as good as himself.

That why I stated from Barry's stable and put " Attorney  General"  in above post. But there is a connection is it not. Barry learnt stuff from Roy and Mark learnt from them both as you know there were previous partnerships in training.

Mark has moved with the times and put his spin on things , pardon the pun.

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9 hours ago, JackSprat said:

My original statement of ... "Despite the endless stream of superstars to emerge from the All Star barn not a single one has gone on to become a successful sire."  ... pointed to what I thought was an amazing stat that despite a couple of decades of dominating the industry not a single colt had gone on to become a commercially successful sire. No mention of failures, of which there have only been a handful anyway, but the sheer lack of candidates!

The only ones I can think of that haven't already been mentioned are Ohoka Arizona and Fly Like An Eagle.

 ...

Follow The Stars stands in Aussie

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Il Vicollo had Jack cade, one of the best of his era. Lord Vicollo wasn't bad either. Sold to Aussie he became one of their best 3 year olds but Mark knew he wasn't as good as JC so proceeded to go to Aussie and beat him. Wasn't planned but I raced 2 by IV. One not very tractable but won three in six months and the other won 7 in just over a year, then $130k in the states.  No superstar at stud probably blighted by the blue magic thing but still way ahead of the likes of Gotta Go Cullen for example. No telling is there.

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