tim vince

J dunn

17 posts in this topic

On ‎5‎/‎5‎/‎2019 at 7:45 PM, tim vince said:

Was inaugurated into the hall of fame friday at Auckland.well deserved.

 

It is fair to say the industry is behind Blair and John in troubled times.1 and 2 in premiership so has the support of trainers owners.

 

Looks that way

 

 

 

I find this post a little perplexing.  The industry being behind them in "Troubled times"-are you inferring to their up coming court cases?

Do you really think they have the full support of all involved in the  industry for that?

The reason they are 1 and 2 on the premiership tables is because of their talent. That doesn't change no matter whether they have a pending court case or not.  That is the number 1 reason why they are supported, they repay that support with their driving skills. 

Do you really think if they were a couple of drivers at the bottom anyone would support them. I think not. So to draw the  inference that the support relates to their actions  is not a totally fair one.

How many others out there actually are thinking they could just as easily be in the same predicament had similar police resources been  used to target them. Come on be honest about that when you give that statement some thought.

Finally why is it some  think you either support them or you don't. Why can't those who think like that realize that many believe no one is perfect, you can be the best in the industry but still make errors of judgment which you later regret,and that those errors of judgment are not the only thing people judge you on. And at the end of the day, why should someone care about others views, should they not self reflect and realize they are not  infallible, and that mistakes exposed is not the be all and end all. Just learn from them and then move on when the dust is settled.  It could be argued that point of view is part of the reason why they are number 1 & 2 on the premiership.

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Three days have passed since the so called induction to hall of fame. No mention on the new HRNZ website or is it hidden somewhere on the site or forbidden to be noted as a news item. What is the criteria to be passed on to gain entry to this hall of fame? Obviously being a cheat does not remove one from consideration !! 

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20 minutes ago, eljay said:

   You think they are evil without trial - wonder what they think of you.     

What a ridiculous statement. Evil?  Where has anyone said that. Your just putting your emotive words in others comments to detract from what they say.

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The fact that both John and Blair are still supported by pretty much the same clientele now as they were prior to all the drama speaks much louder to their reputations than the hugely expensive, over-hyped, drawn out and largely fruitless enquiry that kick started all the drama in the first place!

Anyone who has been around this industry for any length of time knows that everyone has bent a rule or two at some point. But it's a long bow to draw to spin the odd minor indiscretion into race fixing. Unless of course you have a hugely expensive, over-hyped, drawn out and largely fruitless enquiry to try and justify.

  • Random conversations where you're gathering "competitive intelligence" does not constitute race fixing.
  • Telling a mate that you think you can win race 3 does not constitute race fixing.
  • Making a snap decision in a race that with the benefit of hindsight was wrong does not constitute race fixing.
  • Asking a rival driver pre-race if they intend to hold the lead does not constitute race fixing.

John Dunn deserves to be inducted into the Hall Of Fame simply for his driving tactics. He's virtually the only driver in NZ that's fearless no matter how many of the All Stars team up against him!

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41 minutes ago, JackSprat said:

The fact that both John and Blair are still supported by pretty much the same clientele now as they were prior to all the drama speaks much louder to their reputations than the hugely expensive, over-hyped, drawn out and largely fruitless enquiry that kick started all the drama in the first place!

Anyone who has been around this industry for any length of time knows that everyone has bent a rule or two at some point. But it's a long bow to draw to spin the odd minor indiscretion into race fixing. Unless of course you have a hugely expensive, over-hyped, drawn out and largely fruitless enquiry to try and justify.

  • Random conversations where you're gathering "competitive intelligence" does not constitute race fixing.
  • Telling a mate that you think you can win race 3 does not constitute race fixing.
  • Making a snap decision in a race that with the benefit of hindsight was wrong does not constitute race fixing.
  • Asking a rival driver pre-race if they intend to hold the lead does not constitute race fixing.

John Dunn deserves to be inducted into the Hall Of Fame simply for his driving tactics. He's virtually the only driver in NZ that's fearless no matter how many of the All Stars team up against him!

I agree with a lot  of what you say however you refer to a largely fruitless enquiry. That comment just doesn't correlate with the fact there are very serious charges before the court.

And lets be honest. What message does the induction into the hall of fame send,at a time when everyone knows of the impending charges. To me that is another illustration of certain sectors just thumbing their noses,and is the exact thinking which exists within many in the industry towards the betting public,and is one of the reasons why turnover has dropped. Another case of shooting themselves in the foot.

John dunn was probably always going to end up in the hall of fame, but the timing does him no favors and reflects poorly on those who made that decision in my opinion.    Still nothing surprises me.               

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2 hours ago, MAJESTIC said:

Go back over last couple years and how often does the DUNN name come up in race fixing, administrating banned substances etc, very quick to put blame on others. Even the old man has a shady past, something to do with a TAB agency.

 

They’ve done more for racing than you’ll ever do 

Scooby ban this low turd immediately or moderate the dog until he learns how to behave 

Go JD, you’re a champion, and BTW there was no race fixing as described, anyone who’s read the evidence can see that.

It’s fake news and a beat up driven by a couple of useless failed ex coppers and a disenchanted ex employee who tried to even the score with his old boss.

Good luck getting a conviction based on that lack of evidence 

 

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14 hours ago, MAJESTIC said:

Three days have passed since the so called induction to hall of fame. No mention on the new HRNZ website or is it hidden somewhere on the site or forbidden to be noted as a news item. What is the criteria to be passed on to gain entry to this hall of fame? Obviously being a cheat does not remove one from consideration !! 

Either prove what you say or retract it...you know the rules here...cheers.... evidence not hearsay.

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As an aside, the Hall Of Fame as it's called is a bit of a joke (in terms of who runs it, how it's administered, marketed etc etc).
It's just Gilbert Myles and his wife living vicariously through the name to try and remain relevant.

I believe the rules are that any trainer with 500 (?) wins and drivers with 1000 (?) wins get automatic inductions.

To be clear, this post has nothing to do with John's induction specifically - ultimately I think he would end up in a 'true' hall of fame like they do in the gallops.

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6 hours ago, MAJESTIC said:

Go back over last couple years and how often does the DUNN name come up in race fixing, administrating banned substances etc, very quick to put blame on others. Even the old man has a shady past, something to do with a TAB agency.

You are a bitter jealous person- I got banned for not worshiping Allstars .

This defamation speech is worthy of a life ban.

Maybe the  above words are from a very average trainer .

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Fact of the matter great trainer great driver .same Blair.if owners trainers thought they were cheats I don't think they would employ them.throwing stones at Robert is pretty poor.done and does a massive amount for the game.

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7 hours ago, poundforpound said:

 

Go JD, you’re a champion, and BTW there was no race fixing as described, anyone who’s read the evidence can see that.

It’s fake news and a beat up driven by a couple of useless failed ex coppers and a disenchanted ex employee who tried to even the score with his old boss.

Good luck getting a conviction based on that lack of evidence 

 

 So your saying the crown prosecutor, after reviewing all the evidence, and whose job it is to decide whether evidence is strong enough to prove defendants have committed a crime before proceeding with charges , has no idea how to do their job.

  And then throw in the mix the ex employee with a grudge, the couple of useless failed coppers and on top of that you can throw in the team of police who were given resources for 18 months to continue this baseless evidence witch hunt, and walah there you have it, a complete injustice perpetrated against the defendants. . 

2 hours ago, tim vince said:

Fact of the matter great trainer great driver .same Blair.if owners trainers thought they were cheats I don't think they would employ them.throwing stones at Robert is pretty poor.done and does a massive amount for the game.

 You've answered why they employ them -because of their talent.  Do you really think any of those involved would ever even think about doing anything underhand given the scrutiny they are under,besides there are only small number of charges before the court so we can't make accurate assumptions about how wide scale it might have been. Also we are yet to hear what parts those charged played.

Fact is one charge is one too many and is enough to undermine punters confidence..Reality is too many industry participants have little regard for the punters who help fund the industry. The 2 drivers mentioned on this thread, prior to these charges being announced, were perceived to be at the forefront of giving punters confidence in the sport. Which is why to have them involved is disappointing. 

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