gazza123

box seat ,debate on blood spinning

152 posts in this topic

box seat next wed night ,discussing blood spinning ,who and what will be asked mystery but dont expect hard hitting in depth item,more like pc coverup,those in  the thorughbred industry will be amazed at its exsistence as blind eye policy rules

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It's nothing new, not illegal, and has been used in Canterbury (at least) by trainers and vets for 7-8 years now. Was a bit of a "trade secret" for a while there, but it's use is more common these days, albeit still seen as a bit of a luxury to utilize. 

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1 hour ago, Rusty said:

It's nothing new, not illegal, and has been used in Canterbury (at least) by trainers and vets for 7-8 years now. Was a bit of a "trade secret" for a while there, but it's use is more common these days, albeit still seen as a bit of a luxury to utilize. 

I saw an article from HRU claiming the Allstars had a monopoly of the use here in NZ - didn't explain why or how or when it is implemented  though. 

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Carabella had it done back in the day at the vets and it was publicized a bit. 

There are a few centrifuges floating about. Bloody expensive machines though, so something the hobby trainer isn't likely to have up on the workbench in the shed if you know what I mean. 

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Whilst it is good that the discussion is to take place it will amount to nothing. The first thing that does need to happen is that Mick Guerin needs to disqualify himself from the segment as he is well known to be biased towards a certain stable. The second thing that needs to be done is to get a Vet who is not associated with the industry (or participants) to give facts either for or against. Integrity needs to be shown by all involved in this segment or it will amount to nothing but a charade. Too many big players are involved in ACS and they won't want to see it stopped.

IMHO I believe it should be stopped until the facts have been proven as to the welfare of the horse and the legality of it are proven. The sport at the top level is haemoraging which is affecting those at the grass roots who love the industry but don't have the money to compete on the same level. It is also affecting the perception of the sport by the bread and butter people - the punters. Welfare of the horse followed by integrity of the sport have be at the forefront of any discussion.

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14 hours ago, tim vince said:

Blood spinning and blood doping is not the same.lasse siren from Finland was the first well known blood doper 

Blood doping is complex subject and different than blood spinning as you say Tim. It was used by endurance athletes cyclists and middle distance runners to boost performance. One to four units of blood are drained from the body and then later replaced a few days before the athletes' chosen event. This boosts performance because there is more blood in the system which increase red blood cells that carry oxygen. There are many other things that can be done to the blood to further increase performance, EPO is one of these. Wikipedia has a good info on it

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Blood_doping

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47 minutes ago, Thejanitor said:

Blood doping is complex subject and different than blood spinning as you say Tim. It was used by endurance athletes cyclists and middle distance runners to boost performance. One to four units of blood are drained from the body and then later replaced a few days before the athletes' chosen event. This boosts performance because there is more blood in the system which increase red blood cells that carry oxygen. There are many other things that can be done to the blood to further increase performance, EPO is one of these. Wikipedia has a good info on it

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Blood_doping

So if "spinning" is removing blood and replacing it later, wouldn't this have the same performance enhancing effect?

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https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/232187/khrc-approves-study-to-develop-epo-micro-dosing-test

ACS was developed in Kentucky, the home of racing in the USA but recently the Kentucky Horse Racing Commission has approved $147,000 from the Kentucky Equine Drug Research Council fund for a two-year study that aims to develop an affordable test to detect horses that have been given small levels—microdoses—of erythropoietin.

In a letter to the KHRC and presentation at its Feb. 19 meeting, Kentucky equine medical director Mary Scollay said there have been anecdotal reports that blood doping through administration of small doses of recombinant human erythropoietin, or its re-engineered form Darbepoetin, is occurring in racing and evading detection. The abuse of erythropoietin increases red blood cells, creating a performance-enhancing effect known as blood doping as these cells are thought to carry more oxygen to muscles.

Scollay said in racing the current screening method for EPO substances is limited and the concentrations resulting from micro-dosing may be lower than the sensitivity of the screening method. Furthermore, the effects from this method of doping far exceed the window of detection for EPO substances, which are typically in the blood for less than 48 hours following administration.

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On 5/3/2019 at 10:47 PM, Lee270744 said:

If you can find GOOGLE on the internet click on it and write Autologous Conditioned Serum that should im saying SHOULD help you understand it.

 

I would suggest you watch before you write stupid stories about ACS.

you are the stupid one - if Greg O'Connor only promotes the business owned by Mark and Natalie on the Box Seat he is opening the industry to ridicule when you see how it is performance enhancing. It had better be a balanced story.  Horses don't sit 3 wide all the way outside other very good horses and then run away without it being performance enhancing - and how many break down because they cant cope with the workload - the ULTIMATE question Greg should be asking

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On 5/3/2019 at 10:47 PM, Lee270744 said:

If you can find GOOGLE on the internet click on it and write Autologous Conditioned Serum that should im saying SHOULD help you understand it.

 

I would suggest you watch before you write stupid stories about ACS.

more advertising material

Light Enhanced ACS –Autologous Conditioned Serum

The new frontier of stem cell therapies and regenerative medicine offers much promise for the world of equine sports medicine therapies.  Various forms of these therapies have been around for a number of years,  and advances are continually being made in improving them.

We offer access to the very latest modality which is Light Enhanced Autologous Conditioned Serum.  This is a form of traditional IRAP where the patients blood is collected and the anti-degenerative compounds that block the triggering of an inflammatory response are extracted in a concentrated form.  This blood factor extract is unique to the patient,  and as these factors all occur naturally in the body these extracts cannot be detected in a swab.   Our technique partners traditional IRAP treatment with a specially patented low level light technology which has the effect that it produces a photo biostimulatory effect on the IRAP blood extract .  This greatly enhances its effectiveness in promoting healing and reducing inflammation and pain.

The Light Enhanced ACS process produces over 40 x 5L vials of extract which can then be administered via conventional Intra articular methods straight into joints,  or can be given IV,  or can be injected into acupuncture points or administered via a nebuliser.  This range of versatile applications offers many options for integrating ACS into an equine athletes programme and managing a range of problems.

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Is this an riu matter.they spend a lot testing for bicarb.not often on gallpers

Sometimes 10minutes before a race which they did to me.

 Surely this is an issue that needs to be put to bed for reasons of confidence.

Put out a statement riu hrnz on blood spinning

 

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On 5/5/2019 at 10:25 AM, enteebee said:

you are the stupid one - if Greg O'Connor only promotes the business owned by Mark and Natalie on the Box Seat he is opening the industry to ridicule when you see how it is performance enhancing. It had better be a balanced story.  Horses don't sit 3 wide all the way outside other very good horses and then run away without it being performance enhancing - and how many break down because they cant cope with the workload - the ULTIMATE question Greg should be asking

No point in you watching the program then as you have already made up your mind

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I have followed this topic for some time now but wonder why is it that GO and the Box Seat are suddenly going to be discussing it openly on their show. What if anything has prompted this move by them??????

On 5/5/2019 at 10:25 AM, enteebee said:

Horses don't sit 3 wide all the way outside other very good horses and then run away without it being performance enhancing - and how many break down because they cant cope with the workload - the ULTIMATE question Greg should be asking 

How do you know he is not going to ask those questions and could you please tell us all who these horses are that are broken down and what is the workload you refer too or is this just another potshot at the AS team

I would say in my experience that its usually only the good ones that have issues and thats because they try so hard

 

Greg

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There are two chances of GOC doing anything to upset the All Stars stable - zero and none. It will be interesting viewing but do not expect it to be anything sensational or an 'expose'.

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On 5/3/2019 at 10:47 PM, Lee270744 said:

If you can find GOOGLE on the internet click on it and write Autologous Conditioned Serum that should im saying SHOULD help you understand it.

 

I would suggest you watch before you write stupid stories about ACS.

I do hope they invited you to comment Lee given your practical knowledge on the subject

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