gazza123

box seat ,debate on blood spinning

236 posts in this topic

27 minutes ago, john legend said:

Honestly why would the editors of the blood conditioning segment in the box seat tonight 15.05.19 decide to remove a question and answer in the middle of the explanation by the Doctor.? Whoever did this showed lack of respect for all harness racing followers. Regardless of the apprpriateness of the answer a clumsy effort to "scratch"it out was extremely poor. I AM FAST LOSING ANY RESPECT FOR HRNZ.(hope this post s tays in situ. ) Most logical thinkers know both the question and the answer.:rcf-angry-1:

thought i was watching the two ronnies or dr lee in a horror movie ,once again free advertising ,very unbalanced programme

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23 minutes ago, john legend said:

Honestly why would the editors of the blood conditioning segment in the box seat tonight 15.05.19 decide to remove a question and answer in the middle of the explanation by the Doctor.? Whoever did this showed lack of respect for all harness racing followers. Regardless of the apprpriateness of the answer a clumsy effort to "scratch"it out was extremely poor. I AM FAST LOSING ANY RESPECT FOR HRNZ.(hope this post s tays in situ. ) Most logical thinkers know both the question and the answer.:rcf-angry-1:

I noted the editing - cut - but what was said for it to be cut ?

One sided report - definitely not balanced or objective . Where were the doubters and why is it not accepted in every country which has horse racing?

Questions not asked and people not interviewed - which sports doctor uses it on humans and for what purpose .

Maybe Eliza McCartney should get some benefit from it ?

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Oh come on you two guys is that all yuh got? have a bleat about 'editing' (I've worked on videos, mostly wedding and birthdays editin out certain swear words etc and it is bloody hard to get it just right to where the sentence carries on mid word like that, no matter how shit hot your software is, seriously) hey for all the jumpin up down about ACS and its use there of, it is still 'legal' so why the hell you don't just go out and get it done for your horses? ahh, it's available to all! it isn't on lock for a select few, and that's the point, for all those naysayers I ask what really is behind your gripin and snipin? anyone can get this treatment for their horses; one thing it did point out, again, is it has to be used with one clear day before racin, so usin it on horse just before racin isn't/can't be done......this BoxSeat report has for me debunked alot, as I'm sure it has for alot of others (perhaps in a few much to their chagrin), and as a natural healing agent for the performance horse available to all, what helps a racehorse be able to race at it best, and continue to do so has gotta be good for em, and for us who get to enjoy seein em racin and kickin ass...  :rcfe-happy-2:

 

Cheers Iraklis

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7 minutes ago, Iraklis said:

Oh come on you two guys is that all yuh got? have a bleat about 'editing' (I've worked on videos, mostly wedding and birthdays editin out certain swear words etc and it is bloody hard to get it just right to where the sentence carries on mid word like that, no matter how shit hot your software is, seriously) hey for all the jumpin up down about ACS and its use there of, it is still 'legal' so why the hell you don't just go out and get it done for your horses? ahh, it's available to all! it isn't on lock for a select few, and that's the point, for all those naysayers I ask what really is behind your gripin and snipin? anyone can get this treatment for their horses; one thing it did point out, again, is it has to be used with one clear day before racin, so usin it on horse just before racin isn't/can't be done......this BoxSeat report has for me debunked alot, as I'm sure it has for alot of others (perhaps in a few much to their chagrin), and as a natural healing agent for the performance horse available to all, what helps a racehorse be able to race at it best, and continue to do so has gotta be good for em, and for us who get to enjoy seein em racin and kickin ass...  :rcfe-happy-2:

 

Cheers Iraklis

I didn’t say I am for or against it - what I am asking a journalist should investigate why it is not legal in some countries and what human sports persons use it - etc .

Otherwise the show - as it did - becomes a editorial advert .

Simple one side of discussion reported doesn’t prove anything .

Maybe RIU should film the doubters opinion and investigate that side .

 

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15 minutes ago, Iraklis said:

Oh come on you two guys is that all yuh got? have a bleat about 'editing' (I've worked on videos, mostly wedding and birthdays editin out certain swear words etc and it is bloody hard to get it just right to where the sentence carries on mid word like that, no matter how shit hot your software is, seriously) hey for all the jumpin up down about ACS and its use there of, it is still 'legal' so why the hell you don't just go out and get it done for your horses? ahh, it's available to all! it isn't on lock for a select few, and that's the point, for all those naysayers I ask what really is behind your gripin and snipin? anyone can get this treatment for their horses; one thing it did point out, again, is it has to be used with one clear day before racin, so usin it on horse just before racin isn't/can't be done......this BoxSeat report has for me debunked alot, as I'm sure it has for alot of others (perhaps in a few much to their chagrin), and as a natural healing agent for the performance horse available to all, what helps a racehorse be able to race at it best, and continue to do so has gotta be good for em, and for us who get to enjoy seein em racin and kickin ass...  :rcfe-happy-2:

 

Cheers Iraklis

u probably said the same thing about carl lewis and flo jo

 

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10 hours ago, gazza123 said:

thought i was watching the two ronnies or dr lee in a horror movie ,once again free advertising ,very unbalanced programme

I notice the word UNBALANCED used by you a few times has it ever been mentioned in consultation?

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the merits of this treatment are not in question as every trainer uses a range of remedies . What I question is why the determination to avoid the elephant in the lab, ? for those that missed it . (in replays) the question went .... We see that the system has healing anti inflammatory qualities but does it  ..............screech....................  (my thought only, "can it have a positive effect on a horses racing ability"?? ) The secnd later the good doctor was smiling and muttered something inaudible.  Come on team. 

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1 hour ago, gazza123 said:

u probably said the same thing about carl lewis and flo jo

 

Are you referring to the horses here or the athletes ?

What did Carl Lewis the athlete get up to other than win about 10 Olympic medals ,mainly gold ?

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HRNZ have commissioned an independent report in to this treatment. Hopefully the report's investigators will explore why the process is banned Europe.
As noted, a fundamental of journalism is to present both sides of the fence and differing opinions.
Not the case here - merely a interview with the All Stars' current and previous vet and the companies' owner, who is an All Stars owner.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with the treatment, I am no scientist, but the tv pieces were cunningly one-sided.

Was GOC ever going to put anything on the show that drew criticism towards the All Stars? no, no he was not.  

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9 hours ago, tasman man 11 said:

 

What did Carl Lewis the athlete get up to other than win about 10 Olympic medals ,mainly gold ?

Maybe he means ben Johnson.  There was I bit of controversy when it was later revealed Carl Lewis had escaped sanctions after  3 times testing positive to small amounts of banned stimulants found in cold medications prior to the Seoul Olympics.Maybe that's what he is referring to.

If the blood spinning is that good for joint repair why do so many of the young all star horses need injections in their joints. Mick g seems to talk about a new one each week. 

I think the programme was good. Maybe they may do a follow up on the counter argument,probably not..

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gazza, and you would be wrong! both those athletes you mentioned had been supposedly runnin on 'artificial' products! ie. not produced in their own blood, there is a vast difference....dohh

JL, not sure we were watchin same programme, no screech just 'blink' and conversation/interview carries on...(vet speakin) 'you have to give it one clear day a(blink)head of time' and she goes on explain its uses fully includin the anti-inflammatory portion of article.....personally didn't think it was editin, it would have to be the roughest I've seen, good editing you can't see the blink; I just thought it was Sky's normal service hiccups..... :rcf-thinking-1:

Jack, your green eyed monster has reared its ugly head, again...just sayin

Ok, that said, this treatment is available to all, right! anyone can use it; it's not like it's performance enhancing, and illegal, and not only available to a very select few, anyone with an issue in their horse can use it! so what's really the problem here? The programme was there to debunk and inform, I believe it did just that......

 

Cheers Iraklis

 

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A few quotes directly from Dr Colwell on the video...

  • "it inceases anti-inflammatory and growth factors" - (note: isn't this why painkillers and steroids were banned?)
  • "it's comparable to other anti-inflammatories we use" - (note: all of which are banned for at least 7 days before racing.)
  • "a lot of people are using it as a pre-race treatment" - (note: hmm, confirmation of pre-race use. Who'd have thought!)

Can't wait for the next installment of this hard hitting expose ... Part 3 - "The case against ACS"

I won't hold my breath!

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Point is Jack mate, 'it aint artificial' and it is of the horses own blood! you saw it for yourself! and if you carried those points/quotes you have listed above on, to include the rest of those sentences, you would come up with a totally different understanding......thus answerin all of your unfounded suspicions :rcfe-happy-2: geez you're a bloody funny guy LOL

 

Cheers Iraklis

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1 hour ago, Iraklis said:

Point is Jack mate, 'it aint artificial' and it is of the horses own blood! you saw it for yourself! and if you carried those points/quotes you have listed above on, to include the rest of those sentences, you would come up with a totally different understanding......thus answerin all of your unfounded suspicions :rcfe-happy-2: geez you're a bloody funny guy LOL

Cheers Iraklis

Everyone will interpret the show as best they can. Those with an open mind ... and some basic scientific knowledge ... will see all the glaringly obvious questions that weren't asked. 

Those that blindly "follow the company line" will see what they always see.

Greg O'Connor even said that he'd been asked my many people if the show was an investigation or just an ad for the product!

Since the product is totally legal why are they afraid to make Part 3 - "The case against ACS"

Wouldn't that just further highlight the products legitimacy?

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Iraklis, you normally keep me amused and informed.Buuuut. this instance I believe yur missing the interislander. and I am a bystander just wanting reasoned debate. however I agree roughest editing Ive seen but editing neverthe less. WHy. Why if there is nothing to hide edit at all. and blood spinning becomes conditioning. At 
$850 for 12 months count me in.

 

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So after both programs it appears the naysayers are still thinking they have been spun a yarn. Now HRNZ are investigating the process suggesting the results will give ammo to one of the parties at the end of it . Will it be concluded there , i doubt it and i have no firm conviction either way as to it  efficacy so im not taking any side here on this thread

 

Greg

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Iraklis--you go on about this product being natural but so too are the red blood cells and it is illegal to inject these.It is not natural to separate the red cells from the rest of the blood and then use ultra violet light to enhance whats left.I'm not saying i'm against its use but this program was clearly biased and really just an advertisement for its use.Why is it banned in other countries if its so natural?

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For those watching the boys and girl on the box seat reruns now available to see if legend had finally lost the plot I can assure you that hrnz or those owning the Box seat 15.5.19 have smoothed out the edited question and answer so now is "not there at all" to me it only emphasises their sensitivity as to the possibility of performance enhancing characteristics of the procedure. You cant fool all the people etc....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Hey, hey, I'm back online (computer issues) at last, did yahs miss me :rcfe-happy-2: 

Mick mate I am fully aware that injectin red blood cells is illegal, but as they are thrown out and only the serum that has been produced by the horse itself, is kept and used, how can it be 'artificial' that was my point, autologus as was pointed out in article is 'of the horse' itself.....

JL no boat missed here buddy, as personally I'm not sure the article was edited, you're assuming it was, just sayin, when weather up here in Auks is bad bloody Sky reception is fricken terrible and we get interfence, blips and clicks all the time, I just took it as one of those moments :rcfe-smile: it wasn't til I read here and saw someone had mentioned editing, to which I replied I have experience in editing and it's bloody hard to do to stitch to words in a conversation (as after takin part of it out, you have to look for another area to match said conversation to be able to make stitch), however if it was edited, then I believe it to be really crap editing....and I still have both versions of the article 1&2 with glitch, and have re-watched it numerous times.....

The treatment is legal! it is available to all, so what's the problem? it aint like treatment is locked down for only a select few, is it? it is widely available to all, perhaps those naysayers should just try it, then let us all know in here how they found it? as Tim says much ado bout nuthin.....

 

Cheers Iraklis

 

 

 

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did miss ya a.Iraklis ! look I agree not a big deal then why not let the Doctor answer a simple question. !?re the benefits iin total. It is done to repair horses quicker than normal and it is natural but is banned in some countries ? why?  Just a tip on new TAB site a good clear concise 2 or 3 page informative sheet (save ink)on any race meeting is to get race up then go across top to pdf form and click on easy form. you get drivers/comments/ selections etc. :rcfe-happy-2:

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I will look at our close neighbours first.Australia current rules on blood conditioning would fall under the Specified Prohibited substances.... IMHO. and I quote. Oxygen carriers....including "modified haemoglobin products". strictly prohibited. . Now Lee if haemoglobin means blood and separating parts of it  means a 'modification" then .game set match. it is banned. Certainly the 2017 case against Mark was for using the serum and having a syringe for its use even before a trial( 48hrs and 24hs)  showed the sensitivity back then. I maybe wrong on my assumptions so,feel free to correct me . especially on PRP.,IRAP.and ACS.

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I'm sorry that you wont be happy with this answer but it not banned in Australia if it was the Labs  in Melbourne and Sydney would be closed.

I'm not sure how much oxygen is carried in Serum hopefully some of the scientists on here will know.

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