gazza123

box seat ,debate on blood spinning

236 posts in this topic

9 hours ago, Lee270744 said:

Jack I have to ask you this would you go to the doctors if you were fit and heathy would you take your car to the mechanic if it was running perfectly then why would you spend all that money to just have your horses serum in the deep freeze if your horse is fit and heathy.

If as I think you have the All Stars Derangement Syndrome then you are more to be pitied.

Most products that have withholding periods may have an ingredient that will produce a positive swab and I'm yet to see a horses own serum produce a positive as it is impossible.

These innuendoes and nonsense you write is it because you lost $10 on a trifecta at Waikato?

I have said before your hatred and jealousy of successful horse people knows no bounds.

Ill have one more try who are you Jack everyone knows me surely you are not that timid?

Lee Pilcher

Welcome to the discussion Lee.

I must say I'm a tad disappointed in your response. I expected you come out strongly in defense of ACS and tell us what a great breakthrough it is in animal welfare.

But no, not even a denial that it's just another pain killing anti-inflammatory treatment, albeit one that won't as yet trigger an irregularity.

Instead you play the age old "you must be an All Stars hater" card, although I must commend you on the introduction of the term "All Stars Derangement Syndrome" which at least brings something slightly less boring to the debate. Appreciate if you could point out where I singled out the All Stars for any special mention, or even alluded to them.

It's not surprising that you should try and re-focus attention on to my identity or the so called All Stars haters. After all, anything is better than opening the controversial ACS treatment up to public scrutiny isn't it?

Kudos on the Box Seat "expose". You'd have to be pleased with that as a PR exercise. The average punter eg Iraklis, watched it and still had no idea afterwards that ACS is even a pain killing anti-inflammatory treatment.

By the way, would be interested to hear ...

1. What legitimate ie. non-performance enhancing, reason could a trainer have for giving a horse this treatment in the days leading up to a race?

2. If there is no reason, or it "doesn't happen", then why should ACS not have a significant withholding period as do other pain killing anti-inflammatory treatments.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, scooby3051 said:

Jack either prove the insinuations OR retract them and apologise...you are making some wild unsubstantiated allegations  about industry people cheating...please either prove what you say..or stop saying it..and retract what you have said..or there is a 3rd option which i really don't want to have to do... we have a happy informed group of posters who respect each other and the forum rules...either do the same or you will not be welcome here...Leigh

No insinuations or unsubstantiated allegations from me. Simply asked a few questions about the latest fad product and it's legitimate uses. I haven't alleged anything about any person to have to retract.

People have been using products in this game from day one to try and find "an edge". I merely question whether this is happening here or not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jack, I aint an average punter I DON'T BET! and that statement of yours is in fact not correct, when you were talking about the treatment bein an anti inflammatory I thought you were talkin about the surface rub type application (as I've already explained) which do have witholding time etc, but as this treatment is of the horses own blood enzymes and not performance enhancing (if you had watched BoxSeat you'd already know all this) etc, couldn't see why you keep referring to it as artificial, and needing significant withold times? I say again your clutchin at straws trying to make something outta nothin, only you just can't see it or you can and you're just bein ignorant....and the thinly veiled snide remarks to Lee in reference to the BoxSeat program confirms it for me.....I suggest you go back to Lee's website, and re-read all that info you so carefully found before, I'm sure if you do it more slowly, more thoroughly this time you'll get your own answers! LEE HAS ANSWERED YOU BEFORE AND IN DEPTH!

 

Cheers Iraklis

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This we all know Iraklis. You seem to take great pride in the fact that you don't punt or make any financial contribution to the industry. By the way, the term "average punter" is a slang term referring to "an average consumer or user of a product or service" as opposed to someone with technical knowledge or expertise in the field.

Rumours that I deliberately planted a word with a double meaning in that post just to see you reply in capitals are just that. Unsubstantiated rumours!

I did watch the Box Seat, every single word of it in fact, but being from a scientific background .... well lets just say (oops, Scooby has told me opinions contrary to official HRNZ policy will not be tolerated, so I can't say!).

I'm looking forward to Part 2 which should be enthralling!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, JackSprat said:

This we all know Iraklis. You seem to take great pride in the fact that you don't punt or make any financial contribution to the industry. By the way, the term "average punter" is a slang term referring to "an average consumer or user of a product or service" as opposed to someone with technical knowledge or expertise in the field.

Rumours that I deliberately planted a word with a double meaning in that post just to see you reply in capitals are just that. Unsubstantiated rumours!

I did watch the Box Seat, every single word of it in fact, but being from a scientific background .... well lets just say (oops, Scooby has told me opinions contrary to official HRNZ policy will not be tolerated, so I can't say!).

I'm looking forward to Part 2 which should be enthralling!

 

Now you are starting to piss me off...which will not end well...and where did i say anything of the sort???? I am the one they come after because of the unsubstantiated innuendo you are throwing about...so either respect the forum rules or don't bother contributing unless you are prepared to put you real name and details to the post.:rcfe-like:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, I may have paraphrased a little!

You along with a few others on here you have got hold of the wrong end of the stick! The issue I have is not with any trainers that are using ACS as they are doing so legitimately under the current rules.

The issue I have is with the legitimacy of the product itself and the pain killing anti-inflammatory benefits it provides as compared to the benefits most people are aware of.

There are no names to name. The users are quite open about it, and rightly so. After all, it's a permitted products under the current rules.

The side benefits however have the potential to skew the playing field!

If raising the issue makes me a bad person, then it's little wonder the industry is on shakier ground than me!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jack, there you go again making unsubstantiated claims, I have never, ever, said I take 'great pride in not makin any contributions to harness racin' you have absolutely no idea whether or not I make any kind of 'contributions to the sport of harness racin at all, there are other sides to harness besides bettin! and yes I am proud of the fact I DONT BET! bettin aint the be all and end all.....I do know you aint makin sense, rumours, what rumours? what the hell you on about there? oh and the product is 'legitimate' it's been passed by RIU etc, and what side benefits other than healin a part of the horse (by using it's own serum) that is causin an issue, could have the potential to 'skew the playin field'? huh? IT AINT PERFORMANCE ENHANCING! and in your own words a permitted product! and if you did watch BoxSeat you clearly didn't understand it, or didn't want to hear the truth of the matter; keep graspin at straws mate and makin your innuendos, you aint botherin me with your rubbish.....LMAO

 

Cheers Iraklis

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/9/2019 at 6:03 PM, Iraklis said:

Jack, I was talkin/thinkin of the anti-inflammatory of the rub on kind, that aren't allowed cos of whats in em etc, but maybe you should not be takin your info so literally (your clutchin at straws), nebulizin was mentioned last night as were all the other points, barrin point 2) possibly comin in next weeks installment; that said however I would imagine that any good horseman would/should know whether the pain a horse is feelin can be treated by this and or is more serious in nature and maybe it's just time to turn horse out.....and I can't see for the life of me how you can write off the BoxSeat report etc as PR spin, it was out there for all to see the Vet and O'Conner were up front with all of this, it was informative and Vet spoke with clarity and was concise in his explanations (unless your implyin Vet is in on it, yeh right).....PR spin to benefit who? one thing the Vet confirmed was that the process cannot 'performance enhance' (as best part of it is hurled out) it is used to help in healin quicker; and RIU guy confirmed it as legal!....so what's your real beef? read your link by the way and, so what? :rcf-thinking-1:

they take the natural bloood,alter.tamper.spin enhance eliminate toxins,then the un natural product is reinjected,inhaled so that the horse will go no better yeah right ,only humans do this to themselves and animals so its not natural,its cheating.enhancing to win at all costs

 

Cheers Iraklis

Was not a balanced programme,people who oppose these practises where not interviewed and i believe next week again two people who are in favour of treatment,hence it can only be seen as a pr propaganda exercise,yes the red blood cells are seperated but are illegally inhaled into lungs by infuzier(sp).alot of stables blood test tuesday horses racing later in week then reinject magic mixtures to make horses "perfect " for racing,if they are off colour they should be scratched

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, gazza123 said:

Was not a balanced programme,people who oppose these practises where not interviewed and i believe next week again two people who are in favour of treatment,hence it can only be seen as a pr propaganda exercise,yes the red blood cells are seperated but are illegally inhaled into lungs by infuzier(sp).alot of stables blood test tuesday horses racing later in week then reinject magic mixtures to make horses "perfect " for racing,if they are off colour they should be scratched

Gazza what a the "a lot of stables you refer to" please clarify or retract...you a simply spreading innuendo...like another one here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is a sad day when HRNZ get so sensitive regarding strong debate on anything or anyone who dont tow the party line. There are a number of great men and women in our industry at all levels and there are some self interested idiots who cant see the wood for the large green things and believe bluster and threats can win the day. I am a little disappointed in  many on here who I regard as mates( although never met) getting into attack mode but hope it all ends well.My name  if anyone gives a toss is John Albert Penney ,a bettor, a drinker,a womaniser (most reject me now !!)a horse owner, and all I want is more wins in harness racing . Is that too much to ask at 71.:rcf-happy-6:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jack, kool, I'm glad you're enjoyin hey I'm still LMAO.....

gazza, can you kindly delete sentence at bottom of quoted part of your post, as I did not post that! the way you have presented it gives the impression I did! as to the rest of your post inhaling 'treatment' for healin of lungs etc is not illegal as Vet on programme stated, and your reference to 'magic mixtures' what would you be referrin to there? cos that's whole different ball game and you know it! I ask what proof do you have of that practice? and to whom do you refer? there was absolutely nothin wrong with BoxSeat programme they had required experts and officials speakin on subject, it was widely broadcast by reputable people, who took the time to debunk a few of the myths surroundin said treatment, methinks you too are lookin for summit thats not there, but if you feel you have enough info/proof of your assertions perhaps you should go direct to RIU leave the matter with them....

WooHoo! you go JL  :rcfe-happy-3:

 

Cheers Iraklis

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, john legend said:

It is a sad day when HRNZ get so sensitive regarding strong debate on anything or anyone who dont tow the party line. There are a number of great men and women in our industry at all levels and there are some self interested idiots who cant see the wood for the large green things and believe bluster and threats can win the day. I am a little disappointed in  many on here who I regard as mates( although never met) getting into attack mode but hope it all ends well.My name  if anyone gives a toss is John Albert Penney ,a bettor, a drinker,a womaniser (most reject me now !!)a horse owner, and all I want is more wins in harness racing . Is that too much to ask at 71.:rcf-happy-6:

Great post John , just call it a family squabble  as only 1 person  has got a touch nasty calling a few people names etc.

I found the Box Seat program to be informative and unbiased, others obviously have issues with it but the serials on the other channel have not challenged it which suggests even they are convinced its Kosha

As for your " My name is sentence" its  sounds like your a reasonable sort of character :rcfe-happy-1:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, scooby3051 said:

Gazza what a the "a lot of stables you refer to" please clarify or retract...you a simply spreading innuendo...like another one here.

trainers test their horses tuesday to see what the white cell count is i.e an indication that horse is unwell.fighting a infection or cold ,these show up on trainers bills,probably mainly professional s as owner/trainers hate costs ,quite often stipes reports state trainer will have blood done and results forwarded to stipes..an expensive way to tell when snots running out the nose.interesting the pro people attack the person ,the against people attack the practise

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, gazza123 said:

trainers test their horses tuesday to see what the white cell count is i.e an indication that horse is unwell.fighting a infection or cold ,these show up on trainers bills,probably mainly professional s as owner/trainers hate costs ,quite often stipes reports state trainer will have blood done and results forwarded to stipes..an expensive way to tell when snots running out the nose

So what trainers are these...sounds like you are talking from a dark place....:rcf-monkey-2:

And can you please show the stipes reports you refer to as well...thanks.

Edited by scooby3051
Spelling

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, scooby3051 said:

So what trainers are these...sounds like you are talking from a dark place....:rcf-monkey-2:

And can you please show the stipes reports you refer to as well...thanks.

https://infohorse.hrnz.co.nz/datahrs/stipes/racedayreport/2019/stipes_rpt_20190503_002.htm stipes report on marcoola and temperal.

Edited by scooby3051
Smart arse comments.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Iraklis said:

Jack, kool, I'm glad you're enjoyin hey I'm still LMAO.....

gazza, can you kindly delete sentence at bottom of quoted part of your post, as I did not post that! the way you have presented it gives the impression I did! as to the rest of your post inhaling 'treatment' for healin of lungs etc is not illegal as Vet on programme stated, and your reference to 'magic mixtures' what would you be referrin to there? cos that's whole different ball game and you know it! I ask what proof do you have of that practice? and to whom do you refer? there was absolutely nothin wrong with BoxSeat programme they had required experts and officials speakin on subject, it was widely broadcast by reputable people, who took the time to debunk a few of the myths surroundin said treatment, methinks you too are lookin for summit thats not there, but if you feel you have enough info/proof of your assertions perhaps you should go direct to RIU leave the matter with them....

WooHoo! you go JL  :rcfe-happy-3:

 

Cheers Iraklis

sorry iraklis .dont know how that got there,theres no edit so i will ask scobby to delete or shift under my name

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, gazza123 said:

it was not a balanced programme,people who oppose these practises where not interviewed and i believe next week again two people who are in favour of treatment,hence it can only be seen as a pr propaganda exercise,yes the red blood cells are seperated but are illegally inhaled into lungs by infuzier(sp).alot of stables blood test tuesday horses racing later in week then reinject magic mixtures to make horses "perfect " for racing,if they are off colour they should be scratched

I thought it was an interesting segment. To me it was a case of treatment which anyone could access given its legal  and available, but in reality would be used by  those who were not worried about having to pay for the said or similar treatment, and had the bigger cheque books 

What you say about the treatment being given via a nebulizer was spoken about by Mr Bishop. He specifically referred to the treatments ability to enhance lung performance if there was some inflammation in a horses lungs. He said it acted like a low grade anti inflammatory, similar to what you might use for asthma. The segment however seemed to focus the message about it being beneficial for joints and injuries. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎5‎/‎3‎/‎2019 at 10:47 PM, Lee270744 said:

If you can find GOOGLE on the internet click on it and write Autologous Conditioned Serum that should im saying SHOULD help you understand it.

 

I would suggest you watch before you write stupid stories about ACS.

Some couldn't wait NTB(that's not no to brains) Gazza who is very silly and must live in WA. and Taku.

This segment was done to dispel the inane stories about ACS.

I look forward to reading the posts after box seat.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honestly why would the editors of the blood conditioning segment in the box seat tonight 15.05.19 decide to remove a question and answer in the middle of the explanation by the Doctor.? Whoever did this showed lack of respect for all harness racing followers. Regardless of the apprpriateness of the answer a clumsy effort to "scratch"it out was extremely poor. I AM FAST LOSING ANY RESPECT FOR HRNZ.(hope this post s tays in situ. ) Most logical thinkers know both the question and the answer.:rcf-angry-1:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now