RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
gazza123

box seat ,debate on blood spinning

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8 minutes ago, MICHAEL HOUSE said:

I didn’t get anything else wrong 

Your that stupid your making mark an  Nat a fortune and they deserve it 

Don't know that I've really helped them make a fortune, but I have sent some coin their way via training fees (well Mark's way) in the past.

PS. We all know M House is never wrong!

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Michael mate I'm thinkin I like your style, you're a funny dude :rcfe-like: sprat, has been harpin on an on an on about the process and all the wrong doin he suspects, but not once has he fronted when asked to provide proof of all his claims, it's all surmise and jealousitis.....

 

Cheers Iraklis

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13 minutes ago, JackSprat said:

Don't know that I've really helped them make a fortune, but I have sent some coin their way via training fees (well Mark's way) in the past.

PS. We all know M House is never wrong!

Your that stupid your giving EBS credits for horses winning that never been treated......

which if your as smart as you think you are ....you will work out how your promotion is working 

im going buy half the company an employ you.... 

together we will make a fortune an you can be right for once 

 

 

 

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49 minutes ago, poundforpound said:

Can’t see why, firstly it's autologous, you’re just blocking interleukin receptors ( IRAP ) and secondly if it wasn’t autologous it’d have a withholding time.

Of course giving any intraarticular therapy requires sedatives and anaesthetics and they do have a withholding time so you couldn't use whole blood byproducts and race soon after anyway.

Another thought, if anti inflammatories are illegal how about using ice baths / stockings, same effect yeah ?? I know of lots of horses who’ve worn them traveling to the races 

 

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Good points. The autologous one is interesting. What might make it arguable that it is a prohibited substance though is if it is "administered" and an "anti-inflammatory agent".

Of course, it is not illegal in human sports, nor is the application of ice. In rugby ice is applied on field during the game. It would be a fair stretch to consider either of them performance enhancing. PRP therapy's effectiveness for tissue healing is not even very conclusive from my understanding.

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42 minutes ago, Iraklis said:

Michael mate I'm thinkin I like your style, you're a funny dude :rcfe-like: sprat, has been harpin on an on an on about the process and all the wrong doin he suspects, but not once has he fronted when asked to provide proof of all his claims, it's all surmise and jealousitis.....

 

Cheers Iraklis

What’s your name Iraklis

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39 minutes ago, MICHAEL HOUSE said:

Your that stupid your giving EBS credits for horses winning that never been treated......

which if your as smart as you think you are ....you will work out how your promotion is working 

im going buy half the company an employ you.... 

together we will make a fortune an you can be right for once 

Thanks for the offer, but not really my line of business. I'm more the employer than the employee. If you were a twenty something tech whiz I might even find a spot for you!

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27 minutes ago, poundforpound said:

In the Inca evidence it comes up when talking about All Stars....the boofheaded fuckwit Grimstone is quoted as giving the Police advice ( God knows why, he can hardly do his own shoelaces up ) on blood spinning,...who’s doing it ( he implies Mark Purdon is doing something dodgy but let me assure you he’s not ) then elaborates further saying the RIU has plans to deal with it soon and that it’s illegal to inject blood ( or parts thereof ) raceday.

It’s unclear how he thought IRAP, PRP or stem cell therapy could be performed on a horse raceday when those procedures require local anaesthetics and or heavy sedation....but hey he’s a fuckwit with an IQ lower than the 90 day bank rate so he could dream up anything ...or maybe the horses undergoing these procedures were being entered in some sort of sleeping races

Cheers, i wondered how something that was legit to HRNZ vets a few months ago is now not so .   2 vets i consulted on the matter  said basically the same as you so no need for me to google.

 

Greg

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7 hours ago, JJ Flash said:

Cheers, i wondered how something that was legit to HRNZ vets a few months ago is now not so .   2 vets i consulted on the matter  said basically the same as you so no need for me to google.

 

Greg

Lots of things in the past that were seen as legitimate that no longer are. Just as there are threshold levels for some things that never were.  Cobalt,levamisole, etc.   Nothing new in that.  

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14 hours ago, what a post said:

Lots of things in the past that were seen as legitimate that no longer are. Just as there are threshold levels for some things that never were.  Cobalt,levamisole, etc.   Nothing new in that.  

So are you saying  or is it your opinion that blood spinning is not legitimate . 

 

Greg

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1 hour ago, JJ Flash said:

So are you saying  or is it your opinion that blood spinning is not legitimate . 

 

Greg

I'm saying it is legitimate if used as the rules allow.

My own personal take is if used for the  purposes promoted by those involved  then I can't see what's wrong . 

The debate seems to relate to whether it is being used for performance enhancement. I just haven't read enough information on that side of things to be convinced of that. I haven't researched it as much as you or others have.

What I do believe is, it is not the pre race performance enhancer which gives the stables behind the product the edge. It makes no sense to intentionally make available a product to everyone which reduces your advantage over them..

I  can see why authorities have suggested a 7 day rule,, as its promoted use is not for a pre race performance enhancement,  so if its being used as intended then why should that upset anyone.

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HRA - Industry Notice - Rule Amendments

22 August 2019

GENERAL OFFENCES (BLOOD DOPING)

The insertion of a new AHRR 254(A) in Part 14 – General Offences under the heading Blood Doping was APPROVED:

254A (1)   Subject to sub-rule (2) a person shall not either directly or indirectly withdraw from a horse, manipulate and reinfuse into a horse homologous, heterologous or autologous blood products or blood cells.

(2)  A registered veterinary surgeon may for lifesaving purposes or through use of veterinary regenerative therapies for the treatment of musculoskeletal injury withdraw from a horse, manipulate and reinfuse into a horse homologous, heterologous or autologous blood products or blood cells.

(3)  A horse that is treated in accordance with sub-rule (2) shall not be permitted to start in any race for a period of eight clear days from the date of the treatment.

(4)  A person who fails to comply with sub-rules (1), (2) or (3) is guilty of an offence.

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21 minutes ago, Hermione said:

HRA - Industry Notice - Rule Amendments

22 August 2019

GENERAL OFFENCES (BLOOD DOPING)

The insertion of a new AHRR 254(A) in Part 14 – General Offences under the heading Blood Doping was APPROVED:

254A (1)   Subject to sub-rule (2) a person shall not either directly or indirectly withdraw from a horse, manipulate and reinfuse into a horse homologous, heterologous or autologous blood products or blood cells.

(2)  A registered veterinary surgeon may for lifesaving purposes or through use of veterinary regenerative therapies for the treatment of musculoskeletal injury withdraw from a horse, manipulate and reinfuse into a horse homologous, heterologous or autologous blood products or blood cells.

(3)  A horse that is treated in accordance with sub-rule (2) shall not be permitted to start in any race for a period of eight clear days from the date of the treatment.

(4)  A person who fails to comply with sub-rules (1), (2) or (3) is guilty of an offence.

Interesting although im not sure it should be headed blood doping . Science as provided by our resident vet and others suggests the spinning process is nothing of the sort. Will NZ follow suit, only time will tell.

 

Greg

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Having dealt with many many vets with varying levels of competence and integrity over a very long period, and in a range of jurisdictions, I can say with great confidence that they have a lot in common with politicians in that many (if not most), will say or do whatever makes them and their bank account look best, without getting them de-registered.

Everything is legal until it isn't. Great move by the Australian authorities. New Zealand's harness racing leadership will be an even bigger laughing stock than they already are if they don't follow suit.

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There's good and bad, competent and incompetent, ethical and unethical members of every profession ... the veterinary profession is no different. To suggest otherwise is either extremely naive or extremely self serving.

If your regular tirades are anything to go by, everyone on the planet, with the obvious exception of your good self, is a complete fuckwit. I believe the odds against such a situation actually being true are in the vicinity of 7 billion to one!

No doubt you're around about the mark with much of the stuff you post, but your god like opinion of your own capabilities is somewhat misplaced.

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8 hours ago, JackSprat said:

but your god like opinion of your own capabilities is somewhat misplaced.

Thats a bit rich coming from you IMHO

I do hope MH found out your real name and pursued you in the legal manner which you deserve.

 

Greg

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32 minutes ago, poundforpound said:

Your problem Jack Flash is that you have NO knowledge of the subject, zero knowledge of the procedures or the results, you’re ignorant, but your jealousy and bitterness toward others who're achieving more than you means taking one word that shouldn’t even be in that headline, “blood”, and using that one word you’re turning an ethical procedure into something sinister.

The management here should ban your type because you bring no knowledge to the table, but a lot of offensive slur.

Maybe you should put down your colouring-in book and go google “stem cell therapy”, or to a lesser extent “platelet rich plasma” therapy, or Irap, “interleukin receptor antagonist therapy “ there’s a small chance you’ll realise how stupid you are 

Dont you mean Jack Spratt not Jack Flash?

 

Greg

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On 8/6/2019 at 2:06 PM, JackSprat said:

7 days is better than the current 1 day regulation, but it should be a mandatory stand-down period of 14-28 days following treatment. Remember the "only reason" these horses are being treated is because they're "injured" and unfit to race without this supposedly "non-performance enhancing" treatment. To be back to peak fitness 1 day later always seemed to be nothing short of a miracle ... imagine how good they'll be with an extra 6 days to recuperate!

In other news, apparently Mickey Mouse is frantically organising extra stabling with horses soon needing to be being shipped in 8 days before races instead of the day before as in the past! :rcfe-laughing:

Heres something for you to contemplate Jack- not that it will ever be enough

 

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