premixer 105 Report post Posted April 30, 2019 Just been reading the rules for betting/laying as an owner and as to be expected, you cannot lay your own horses. However it doesn't say you cant back other horses in the race? Is this the case, or have I missed the relative ruling on this? Does this effectively mean you could back 3 or 4 others as a backup if yours doesn't win? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMD is rife 211 Report post Posted April 30, 2019 Where are these rules published? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
premixer 105 Report post Posted April 30, 2019 page 97 covers betting and laying. https://loveracing.nz/OnHorseFiles/Downloads/RULES OF RACING (effective from 1 April 2019).pdf Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerula 1,389 Report post Posted May 1, 2019 Makes sense NO LAYING BETS 708 (1) Any person who: (a) is a Licensed Person and/or an Owner or lessee (as the case may be) must not Lay any horse under his ownership, management, care, control, supervision or superintendence, including (without limitation) any horse he trains or rides; (b) is employed by a Trainer in connection wi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiknsmack 469 Report post Posted May 1, 2019 I've posted about this before. You can't lay your own horse, but you can back every other horse in the race (de facto laying your horse) and it's all good. premixer 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richmond Tiger 49 Report post Posted May 1, 2019 24 minutes ago, chiknsmack said: I've posted about this before. You can't lay your own horse, but you can back every other horse in the race (de facto laying your horse) and it's all good. and lets be honest, you wouldnt want to employ that method using the NZ TAB given their skinny percentages...better on something like betfair Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
premixer 105 Report post Posted May 1, 2019 Thanks, that's kind of what I was getting at, seems a bit backwards in a way. You cant lay, but jump onto Betfair which is near enough a 100% market, back every other horse and its the same difference, but legal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richmond Tiger 49 Report post Posted May 1, 2019 or just jump on betfair and lay your horse - NZ Racing are farking hopeless and I guarantee this extends to the oversight of such matters....not that I am, for a moment, condoning the breaking of said rules...! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
premixer 105 Report post Posted May 1, 2019 Just doing the numbers on getting back into a few horses and its so bleak I was starting to look at the options of laying it every start to hedge my bets so to speak, about the only way I can see owning a horse without completely just setting fire to money. 10% share of a horse you need a return (roughly) of $3k a year to be break even or thereabouts depending on trainer/area of country unless you luck into a top horse. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richmond Tiger 49 Report post Posted May 1, 2019 If you didn't invest in the horses, wouldnt you back them instead ? (as a hedge) . If you laid them, and they won, you are out of the money (times 2) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richmond Tiger 49 Report post Posted May 1, 2019 actually, ive just realised what you meant. You are going to invest but want to lay them as a hedge against the woeful cost/benefit ratio Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
premixer 105 Report post Posted May 1, 2019 yes thats it, not laying them (my horse) so much that the payout on betfair if it did win was more than the stake money earnt, but enough to split the difference or something along those lines. Haven't quite stacked the numbers up yet, and your horse would actually need to be shortish in the market to make the stake/liability weight up, but thats the general gist of it. $10k race, horse wins $6k, after jockey/trainer/entry fees maybe $500 returned to a 10% holder. Lay the horse to for example $300 liability, it it wins you lose $300 laying it, but win $500 in stakes so net $200. If it loses, win your betfair stake and maybe pick up some prize money for minor placing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rum 1,833 Report post Posted May 1, 2019 Lay bets , the corrupters paradise . Judgethemoment Lingfield a good watch on you tube , fair pace he went out in distance race . Cost Eddie Ahern 10 years of career and Ballinger Ridge also Lingfield also a good watch . Gave Fallon and others some days at Old Bailey , found no case to answer though for Fallon . It's a massive can of worms and Betfair systems all over dodgy betting patterns .They have years of experience and technology spotting these kind a scams . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...