poundforpound

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99 posts in this topic

2 minutes ago, Leggy said:

Is it just me, or does anyone else get the sense that this whole Messara/MAC/RITA thing is going nowhere, at least nowhere constructive or productive?

Not just you , so thats two of us. When I read stakes doubling late last year I knew it was dreamers time .The 3 All Weathers was the next nights bedtime story .

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57 minutes ago, Trump said:

Not savvy  with the Asian model but at a guess I think my answer would be no. Look, Aust is NZ’s closest racing jurisdiction. It is probably the best in the world - not perfect but still the best. Participation, prize money, punting options, breeding etc etc, Aust has a model that is working. The Industry works in unison with State Govts - some better than others. NSW and Melb lead the way. NZ doesn’t need to send reps on junkets to USA, Asia, Europe, China etc. Across the ditch they have everything

Having a population of 25m+ compared to 4.7m might have something to do with it....:rolleyes:

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8 minutes ago, Red Rum said:

Not just you , so thats two of us. When I read stakes doubling late last year I knew it was dreamers time .The 3 All Weathers was the next nights bedtime story .

Aside from some numbers being bandied about by John Allen and his cronies which have no connection to the reality of the research or the DIA or Treasury analysis, I see nothing here which might even hope to increase net revenue to racing. Just a beg, borrow or steal strategy really. Hopeless, I'm afraid.

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As for Asian markets , it's not all the same , for example HK a benchmark closed shop policed to a quality the FBI would be happy with , plus a captive audience with not much other sport in town who enjoy a punt . Singapore sliding , casinos taking over , track attendance not great and horses well  below average , although still a decent night out imho.

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39 minutes ago, Leggy said:

Why? It's a global market ain't it?

You're comparing their infrastructure, investment, industry size, horse/people populations, betting options to ours..??

Simple numbers game ain't it....?

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1 hour ago, Leggy said:

Is it just me, or does anyone else get the sense that this whole Messara/MAC/RITA thing is going nowhere, at least nowhere constructive or productive?

It's going somewhere Leggy , somewhere close to tearing the industry apart culling off the interest from the real racing type person and selling its soul to the fickle, once its done that it'll be truly farked and these fools running it into the ground, like they will know they have done a great job.

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It seems to me ( for what my humble opinion is worth )  that the DIA and Treasury will open a can of worms unconsidered by most.

We only have ourselves to blame though, by years of sitting on our hands and doing absolutely nothing to help ourselves.

Many have cast aspersions on the ' racing, get your house in order '  line of previous racing ministers....we may wish for that approach yet if/when the results of all this become evident. 

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34 minutes ago, Pam Robson said:

It seems to me ( for what my humble opinion is worth )  that the DIA and Treasury will open a can of worms unconsidered by most.

We only have ourselves to blame though, by years of sitting on our hands and doing absolutely nothing to help ourselves.

Many have cast aspersions on the ' racing, get your house in order '  line of previous racing ministers....we may wish for that approach yet if/when the results of all this become evident. 

I always appreciate Pam's "humble opinion" on here. I think you are one of the most sensible and informed contributors.

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The key outcome of track rationalisation should surely be to revitalise the industry to encourage the younger generation(s) to get involved. Racing clubs aren’t the only ones suffering from too few members and participants. Ask your nearest golf club, Lions club or bowling club how they are managing, it won’t likely be good news. As referred to earlier, it’s mostly grey haired people you see at the races. To at least try and redress the many reasons racing has declined (farmers now too far removed from horses being used on farms so most not interested, computers, TV, couples spending more time working to make ends meet, social media making it easy to spread the perception horse ing is cruel etc etc), we do need far better facilities than those provided at most courses, so I am in favour of whatever courses are closed which help the better good of the industry

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Was at Randwick Doncaster day and wall to wall young ones, probably 40 percent sub 35 years of age.

Randwick produced good food, grog, plenty of colour great racing and superb surrounds.

I liked the parade ring out the back all the jockeys in the middle mount up walk around the ring through the tunnel to birdcage and prelims. You were involved in the theatre - simply not boring like Riccarton was last Saturday - so simple

A clean out if management at HQ and beyond needed

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15 minutes ago, TurnyTom said:

Was at Randwick Doncaster day and wall to wall young ones, probably 40 percent sub 35 years of age.

Randwick produced good food, grog, plenty of colour great racing and superb surrounds.

I liked the parade ring out the back all the jockeys in the middle mount up walk around the ring through the tunnel to birdcage and prelims. You were involved in the theatre - simply not boring like Riccarton was last Saturday - so simple

A clean out if management at HQ and beyond needed

We seem to be hearing this all the time, in Aus this in Aus that.Surely Ellerslie is a good example of what is being asked and with the exemption of Karaka Millions night and possibility the other twilight meetings have the young ones you referred to really grasped racing like they have in Aus? 

I went to 5 holiday meetings over the Dec/ Jan period at smaller country clubs and guess what there were a lot of families and young people involved at these events(and no I'm not comparing the time of year to G1 days at the bigger clubs I realise there is a difference) but I don't believe the same crowds would have been at meetings at the likes of the bigger venues had they been at that time of year, so why are we trying to go out of our way to crush something that works when we should be doing something to enhance it?

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I just got to cabinet paper #3 on this.

It says:

"The NZRB has estimated that if the POC charge was set at two per cent of turnover it could yield over $24 million of revenue per annum.6.

6 The NZRB’s estimate for the POC charge is derived from anonymised credit card data from ANZ (which accounts for approximately one-third of the New Zealand credit card market) which categorises transactions by New Zealanders through a gambling Merchant code which enabled them to identify which deposits were with offshore betting providers."

So, they reckon that kiwis are turning over about $1,200 million per annum with overseas bookies? Really? The NZRB manages about $800 million. Is someone telling porkies here?

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3 minutes ago, Leggy said:

I just got to cabinet paper #3 on this.

It says:

"The NZRB has estimated that if the POC charge was set at two per cent of turnover it could yield over $24 million of revenue per annum.6.

6 The NZRB’s estimate for the POC charge is derived from anonymised credit card data from ANZ (which accounts for approximately one-third of the New Zealand credit card market) which categorises transactions by New Zealanders through a gambling Merchant code which enabled them to identify which deposits were with offshore betting providers."

So, they reckon that kiwis are turning over about $1,200 million with overseas bookies? Really?

The real stat of interest there would be what proportion of on line gambling is actually on horses wouldn’t it ?

And further to that, which recipient agencies were within a jurisdiction likely to be “friendly to” and compliant with enforcement of a NZ POC levy / tax 

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16 minutes ago, poundforpound said:

The real stat of interest there would be what proportion of on line gambling is actually on horses wouldn’t it ?

And further to that, which recipient agencies were within a jurisdiction likely to be “friendly to” and compliant with enforcement of a NZ POC levy / tax 

Sorry P4P, I just amended that post but unless I have a major problem with my arithmetic, cabinet are claiming that NZers are doing 50% more turnover overseas than the total turnover of the NZRB.

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8 hours ago, tripple alliance said:

I note there is no mention of altering the original version of racefields which's begs the question , why was it delayed . If the figures published are to believed and were proven then this delay has cost the industry around $15 Million which would have lead to apathy and resistance .  The only logical reason was to create a situation that squeezed the industry into change and to silence objectors to change .

If this was the tactic then I support it .

In my opinion if we don't make big changes racing is doomed , bring it on . Most of racings financial supporters are  approaching or are on the pension which means a little more care with spending or they are approaching departure , I know a couple of lifetime supporters who have departed recently , we need a younger generation to get involved , the only possible way to do this is a massive upgrading of facility's and going upmarket .

The draft wording of the previous  Race Fields legislation was crap. Go get a copy for yourself and make up your own call

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8 hours ago, Whyisit said:

I look at it like this 20 little country tracks closed ,average 10 trainers each ,  80% will give up training not wanting to relocate although having the same dedication and nous as Kevin .

so that leaves 160 trainers less opposition looking at it in a business sense .  As I said Racing will soon become for the rich

Go to the NZTR trainers registration and get your facts right. What a load of horse manure you talk. You've pulled numbers from a Peter Pan fairy dust cloud

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4 hours ago, Patiti said:

A lot is made of Greenfields in the MAC Report.

This was almost dead in the water a few weeks ago.

Its like the whole industry is waiting on Waikato to lead the charge.

Lots of challenges ahead.

Waikato's short sighted version  of events is to sell Te Rapa and buy Bodle's property and turn it into a race track. Well that's smart. Let's just replace one with another FFS. Why not invest in 2500 ha three times? Build 3 race tracks per property, 900 ha of training tracks (long gallops, all weather gallops and any other gallops that are required. Build accommodation for 3000 people (there's a housing shortage), replicate Bistre Village and build a town (that'll pay for all the race tracks), build an equestrian centre, a leading edge educational centre and a horse rehabilitation centre. Let's look after the future of the industry, the people and as important, the horses. We have one chance....no more.

Think 50 years in advance....not the time it takes to relieve yourselves. 

Waikato...greenfields....yeah right....

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9 hours ago, Whyisit said:

I look at it like this 20 little country tracks closed ,average 10 trainers each ,  80% will give up training not wanting to relocate although having the same dedication and nous as Kevin .

so that leaves 160 trainers less opposition looking at it in a business sense .  As I said Racing will soon become for the rich

You’re putting the cart before the horse. Even if your 10 trainers at 20 country tracks was factual, the real question is “How many horses are trained at these tracks?” What is the “actual” horse population at each track. Ten trainers with 1 or 2 horses is no justification to keep racing at that venue.

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2 minutes ago, Trump said:

You’re putting the cart before the horse. Even if your 10 trainers at 20 country tracks was factual, the real question is “How many horses are trained at these tracks?” What is the “actual” horse population at each track. Ten trainers with 1 or 2 horses is no justification to keep racing at that venue.

Of course it is , if the race day is well patronised and its a successful event why would you want to stop racing there? How many horses trained at Wairoa? They haven't stopped racing  there? How many trained at Te Rapa or Ellerslie or Trentham?

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7 minutes ago, Huey said:

Of course it is , if the race day is well patronised and its a successful event why would you want to stop racing there? How many horses trained at Wairoa? They haven't stopped racing  there? How many trained at Te Rapa or Ellerslie or Trentham?

Ummmm.... none ....let's close them down on that basis.

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24 minutes ago, Berri said:

Go to the NZTR trainers registration and get your facts right. What a load of horse manure you talk. You've pulled numbers from a Peter Pan fairy dust cloud

 
Note the date ,  2018 , I just tacked on 1 year to allow for that , the rest is 100%
 
HELPING HAND FOR YOUNG TRAINERS
20 May 2018

The renewal fees for all trainers under the age of 30 were refunded into their accounts.  There were 40 trainers who had their renewal fees refunded of which 14 were Class A trainers, 14 were Class B and 12 were Class C.  The total amount was funded by the NZRB Youth Enhancement Fund was $14,480.

Over fifty percent of thoroughbred racehorse trainers in New Zealand are over sixty years of age. The industry must attract and retain young people as trainers to ensure the future viability of racing. To provide an incentive to young people to become or remain trainers, NZTR undertook to offer free licence renewals for trainers under the age of 30 years.

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4 minutes ago, tripple alliance said:
 
Note the date ,  2018 , I just tacked on 1 year to allow for that , the rest is 100%
 
HELPING HAND FOR YOUNG TRAINERS
20 May 2018

The renewal fees for all trainers under the age of 30 were refunded into their accounts.  There were 40 trainers who had their renewal fees refunded of which 14 were Class A trainers, 14 were Class B and 12 were Class C.  The total amount was funded by the NZRB Youth Enhancement Fund was $14,480.

Over fifty percent of thoroughbred racehorse trainers in New Zealand are over sixty years of age. The industry must attract and retain young people as trainers to ensure the future viability of racing. To provide an incentive to young people to become or remain trainers, NZTR undertook to offer free licence renewals for trainers under the age of 30 years.

Fuck that. Have they heard of age discrimination and human rights?

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