Berri

Sign of the times but going to get worse

16 posts in this topic

Saturday racing Tauranga's shortage of horses....

6, 7, 7, 8, 9, 10, 6 and 10 runners

Betting starts to drop drastically with less than 12 runners.

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I think it is confirmation that there are too many meetings in NZ. Compared to the days when racing was only held on Saturdays and Wednesdays (outside of the Xmas / New Year period) there are probably less horses racing now so does it make sense to have so many meetings?

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2 hours ago, Breeder said:

I think it is confirmation that there are too many meetings in NZ. Compared to the days when racing was only held on Saturdays and Wednesdays (outside of the Xmas / New Year period) there are probably less horses racing now so does it make sense to have so many meetings?

So under S16 $$$$ distributions to the code are based on domestic share, so if you’re proposing less meetings can I presume you also want a smaller share of the industry pie ?

For clarity, in other words you’re effectively arguing for smaller stakes.

How long have you worked for NZTR ?  ( given that they’re doing their best to reduce both meetings and runner numbers too, by virtue of track neglect and the handicapping model forcing male horses out of the industry.)

 

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Winston has boldly stated that he will raise Saturday stakes to a minimum of $50,000. Typical political posturing. The darker the day the brighter the future. Tauranga yesterday staged a $10,000 Maiden Race. Last Saturday Trentham staged a Maiden Race and a 2yo Race for $10,000. The same day Edenhope in Victoria staged three Maiden Races for $25,000. On the back of falling tote turnovers how credible is Winston’s promise?!

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39 minutes ago, gubellini said:

Winston has boldly stated that he will raise Saturday stakes to a minimum of $50,000. Typical political posturing. The darker the day the brighter the future. Tauranga yesterday staged a $10,000 Maiden Race. Last Saturday Trentham staged a Maiden Race and a 2yo Race for $10,000. The same day Edenhope in Victoria staged three Maiden Races for $25,000. On the back of falling tote turnovers how credible is Winston’s promise?!

But Winston ( through his appointee saviour Messara ) thinks it’s ok to rob the ( fairly ) rich but vulnerable clubs to pay the ( fairly  ) poor but greedy owners their extra stake money.

It’s not unlike me wanting to build myself a brand new ten bedroom house that I can’t afford......but demanding you give me a few acres off your farm that I can cash up and use to fund my new house.

What’s wrong with that ?

That’s how this current coalition government works, you just take the hard earned assets of the wealthy and give them to those who haven’t worked for them and won’t appreciate them. They call it capital gains tax.....we call it The Messara report.....

 

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Poundforpound

I hold a similar view of the NZTR that you do.

If reducing the number of meetings means a reduction of money to thoroughbred racing via the distribution system then that "formula" needs to be addressed at the same time. I do not pretend to understand the fine details of the funding system but racing is competing for a relatively finite discretionary / entertainment income pool. With a vastly increased number of options for people to spend that money on ( compared to say 30 - 40 years ago) then racing has to make sure it presents as a very good option. I happen to believe it has spread itself too thinly.

What is the alternative ? More borrowing to improve stakes.?

 

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I didn’t actually mean to attack you Breeder, rather I was ( as you’ve implied ) reminding anyone interested of the stupidity of both NZTR and our funding model ( granted that’s The Racing Act ), all compounded by the lunacy of the handicapping model we’re applying........

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On 3/17/2019 at 12:12 PM, poundforpound said:

So under S16 $$$$ distributions to the code are based on domestic share, so if you’re proposing less meetings can I presume you also want a smaller share of the industry pie ?

Code distributions are based on domestic share of turnover. If fewer meetings (with higher stakes) mean larger fields, and larger fields mean more turnover per race, you could potentially increase thoroughbred turnover (and therefore code share of total turnover) by running fewer meetings.

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On 3/17/2019 at 12:50 PM, gubellini said:

Winston has boldly stated that he will raise Saturday stakes to a minimum of $50,000. Typical political posturing. The darker the day the brighter the future. Tauranga yesterday staged a $10,000 Maiden Race. Last Saturday Trentham staged a Maiden Race and a 2yo Race for $10,000. The same day Edenhope in Victoria staged three Maiden Races for $25,000. On the back of falling tote turnovers how credible is Winston’s promise?!

Winston has made a number of "bold statements" in his 40 year political career, none of which he has delivered on. I guess there's always a first but .................................

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1 hour ago, chiknsmack said:

Code distributions are based on domestic share of turnover. If fewer meetings (with higher stakes) mean larger fields, and larger fields mean more turnover per race, you could potentially increase thoroughbred turnover (and therefore code share of total turnover) by running fewer meetings.

 Can you show me the data that proves a correlation between higher stakes and what you claim to be “ larger fields” please ?

A hint......ask Lord Lucan......or go check what happened after Fairtax......absolutely fucking nothing because there is no correlation 

This is the greatest myth perpetuated in racing FFS....and that’s why modest mid week meetings often draw bigger fields than say Ellerslie on a premier day.........and why The Derby doesn’t even get a capacity field any more

I guess you may have meant that with less opportunities horses would have to race whenever they could so that could drive field size up....but if that was a factor why don’t you just disincentivise trials and incentivize actual racing, that’s easy to do, make racing completely free, no cost to owners, and make mid week racing penalty free ( ratings wise ) for horses who haven’t won a race in the last 12 months 

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1 minute ago, poundforpound said:

and that’s why modest mid week meetings often draw bigger fields than say Ellerslie on a premier day

Why do modest mid week meetings often draw bigger fields than say Ellerslie on a premier day? Honest question.

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7 hours ago, chiknsmack said:

Code distributions are based on domestic share of turnover. If fewer meetings (with higher stakes) mean larger fields, and larger fields mean more turnover per race, you could potentially increase thoroughbred turnover (and therefore code share of total turnover) by running fewer meetings.

There is no evidence that larger stakes increase field sizes. Just look at the rating 65, 72 and 82 fields recently at Trentham for $30,000; they struggled to average 8 or so horses. And the $50,000 lower grade races at Ellerslie weren't flash; you generally get bigger fields in Southland for $10,000.

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A lot of the small fields are a result of administrative incompetence rather than a shortage of horses. Everytime you programme seven races rather than ten races you are eliminating dozens of horses who don't have a suitable race. Trainers looking for a 65 1,200m don't suddenly say "oh well, we will just race in the 82 1,600m instead". The reason there was no SI representation in the Derby or Oaks is because there hasn't been a 3yo race in the SI further than 1,600m this season, and only one over 1,600m since Cup Week.

These are certainly trying times for Racing around the world, but a lot of the problems facing Racing in NZ are down to incompetence. Racing in NZ will never be rescued by people with no interest in it or commitment to it. 

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19 hours ago, poundforpound said:

 .....and why The Derby doesn’t even get a capacity field any more

except for this year when possibly the best horse was balloted out .... :rcf-laughing-1:

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