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Sheriff

Festival sale looking a bit grim?

28 posts in this topic

Kiwis are bailing out, that means it's time to get involved.

Entry level has never been cheaper, you'll buy a hell of a horse for 30k the next two days.

If anyone is interested in coming in to one or two, maybe an RTR horse as that'll be a small catalogue this year, or perhaps buy a runner to set for the race...whatever you fancy, if you would like to have a bit of the action just email me with your contact details and your preference, ie what you'd like to spend, the shareholding you fancy on a percentage basis, and the type of horse you like (early runner, one for the race, RTR option, or a later type).

[email protected] or [email protected]

yep you are bang on, now is the time to buy. Would love to have the money to buy a filly to race and then bred from to start a personal lineage.

ah well, maybe in five years

good luck

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yep you are bang on, now is the time to buy. Would love to have the money to buy a filly to race and then bred from to start a personal lineage.

ah well, maybe in five years

good luck

Even though there were any number of passings the competition for the good lookers still seemed tough.

Are we discarding too many in search of the so called athlete?

After all race results dont mirror yearling prices from what I have noticed over many years.

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I'm pleased I didn't go up for the festival sale because the few I sorted out for the first day sold reasonably well.

My criteria was solely to purchase a nice colt to pin hook for the South island sale.

My lots were on pedigree only, so would have had to be okay on confirmation as well -

Lot 1162 Passed 18000 Res 25000

1166 24000

1187 58000

1189 22000

1299 16000

1327 12000

1332 40000

1343 Withdrawn

At least I'm obviously on the right track pedigree wise. ;)

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Kiwis are bailing out, that means it's time to get involved.

Entry level has never been cheaper, you'll buy a hell of a horse for 30k the next two days.

If anyone is interested in coming in to one or two, maybe an RTR horse as that'll be a small catalogue this year, or perhaps buy a runner to set for the race...whatever you fancy, if you would like to have a bit of the action just email me with your contact details and your preference, ie what you'd like to spend, the shareholding you fancy on a percentage basis, and the type of horse you like (early runner, one for the race, RTR option, or a later type).

[email protected] or [email protected]

Please can you tell me why few people want fillies ? Some studs are offering a discount on stud fees if you get a filly. Some of our best racehorses have been female. ( I don't need to name them ) Only a few colts go on to be stallion prospects and the rest, that don't make the grade, end up gelded and are of no further use except as hacks, show horses etc. ( some of them perform really well, so I'm not knocking it). At least a well bred female has a future as a brood mare. This also does not look good for the future of our TB breeding industry. We need to retain and race our good fillies . . don't we ?????

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Please can you tell me why few people want fillies ? Some studs are offering a discount on stud fees if you get a filly. Some of our best racehorses have been female. ( I don't need to name them ) Only a few colts go on to be stallion prospects and the rest, that don't make the grade, end up gelded and are of no further use except as hacks, show horses etc. ( some of them perform really well, so I'm not knocking it). At least a well bred female has a future as a brood mare. This also does not look good for the future of our TB breeding industry. We need to retain and race our good fillies . . don't we ?????

Don't the colts sell better up to Asia??

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Don't the colts sell better up to Asia??

Maybe. Don't know if I am right, but I think they only have colts/geldings to race in Hong Kong. They obviously don't want too many spare hormones running around the racecourse. I might be seriously wrong here, but I am sure someone will correct me if that is the case.

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Please can you tell me why few people want fillies ? Some studs are offering a discount on stud fees if you get a filly. Some of our best racehorses have been female. ( I don't need to name them ) Only a few colts go on to be stallion prospects and the rest, that don't make the grade, end up gelded and are of no further use except as hacks, show horses etc. ( some of them perform really well, so I'm not knocking it). At least a well bred female has a future as a brood mare. This also does not look good for the future of our TB breeding industry. We need to retain and race our good fillies . . don't we ?????

Now your starting to get the idea. An astute breeder would not put their well bred filly in a sale unless they wanted to get out of the business. Better to retain it for the future, lease it to someone else to race if they didnt want to do it themselves and have it returned so they can breed from it. Colts however are not much good to the breeder unless theywant to retain for future stud duties so best to get rid of them to someone else so they can have the bills. Look through the catalogue and count the number of broodmares who have actually raced themselves. Then have another look and see how many of the colts actually remain colts for very long. I think you might find that there isnt many in either case.

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Now your starting to get the idea. An astute breeder would not put their well bred filly in a sale unless they wanted to get out of the business. Better to retain it for the future, lease it to someone else to race if they didnt want to do it themselves and have it returned so they can breed from it. Colts however are not much good to the breeder unless theywant to retain for future stud duties so best to get rid of them to someone else so they can have the bills. Look through the catalogue and count the number of broodmares who have actually raced themselves. Then have another look and see how many of the colts actually remain colts for very long. I think you might find that there isnt many in either case.

Correct!!! The only fillies from the so called good blood lines

that would be in the sale ring are either out of a young Mare or there are already a tonne of filly siblings retained by the breeder already.

I Kept my Filly from my old Mare as she is the only living filly from the mare and the Mare has now been retired.

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Correct!!! The only fillies from the so called good blood lines

that would be in the sale ring are either out of a young Mare or there are already a tonne of filly siblings retained by the breeder already.

I Kept my Filly from my old Mare as she is the only living filly from the mare and the Mare has now been retired.

Dont agree Rosie. The studs cant keep all the good ones. Boundless was put up by Trelawney and Cherry tried to buy her back.

TJ bought her for 80k.

Boundless had Star Way, Sir Tristram, and Zamazaan through her Group 1 2nd dam the Group 1 mare Limitless.

Boundless won 700k and with an ounce of luck in Australia would have topped the million.

Boundless will be for sale in the Easter Broodmare sales in Sydney. It is my hope that she will come back here.

We are racing a gelding now and I can see he will be a giveaway at some stage.

I will go back to racing a filly next as a decent trainer can put enough runs on the board to ensure residual value I believe. Regards NM

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Somebody has already alluded to it, but the biggest influence on the yearling colt market would be the chance to hopefully get one good enough to flick on to Asia. They have no breeding industry and are only interested in colts/geldings. In buying a filly, one automatically foregoes that possibility.

I too would love to race a filly [ if finances and my wife permitted] for the reasons others have stated, but for the majority who don't share the interest in future breeding and race for a win or two and hopefully a good sale, fillies are of little interest.

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The festival sale was a disaster for every vendor I would say. The atmosphere on site today was one of dispair. The overall stats show nearly $2 million less in aggreagate (of 50% less) than last year. There will be alot of breeders who will not be able to pay thier bills. A number who sold will still owe NZB money after they take the proceeds as they must pay the entry fees, commission and stabling charges.

NZB need to thoroughly review the sale. I sold a colt for just 25% of what I paid for the service fee - let alone the cost of production. The industry will suffer, as smaller breeders call it quit.

The general consenses from studmasters I spoke to was that 2010 servcies were 20% down on 2009, and with sales results like these, it will be another 20% less in 2011! We a looking a a sub 3000 foal crop.

With so many passings - The catalouges for the weanling and broodmare sale and the ready to run sale this year will both again be huge, leading to even lower prices as supply outstrips demand.

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The festival sale was a disaster for every vendor I would say. The atmosphere on site today was one of dispair. The overall stats show nearly $2 million less in aggreagate (of 50% less) than last year. There will be alot of breeders who will not be able to pay thier bills. A number who sold will still owe NZB money after they take the proceeds as they must pay the entry fees, commission and stabling charges.

NZB need to thoroughly review the sale. I sold a colt for just 25% of what I paid for the service fee - let alone the cost of production. The industry will suffer, as smaller breeders call it quit.

The general consenses from studmasters I spoke to was that 2010 servcies were 20% down on 2009, and with sales results like these, it will be another 20% less in 2011! We a looking a a sub 3000 foal crop.

With so many passings - The catalouges for the weanling and broodmare sale and the ready to run sale this year will both again be huge, leading to even lower prices as supply outstrips demand.

Why would you want to keep going ? I saw a lot of yearlings sold for far less than their stud fees. Not much incentive to breed any more is there ? As to racing them :- we have had a syndicate for many years. We have raced several horses. It was all fun and we did not expect to get rich, but we did win a few races. Even when you win you lose because the stake money is so pathetic. One by one the syndicate members dropped out and I doubt we will ever race another horse. One more owner lost to racing. How many more owners can NZTR afford to do without? Maybe it will end up like the UK. The "sport of kings" i.e. unless you are mega-rich, bugger off.

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Why would you want to keep going ? I saw a lot of yearlings sold for far less than their stud fees. Not much incentive to breed any more is there ? As to racing them :- we have had a syndicate for many years. We have raced several horses. It was all fun and we did not expect to get rich, but we did win a few races. Even when you win you lose because the stake money is so pathetic. One by one the syndicate members dropped out and I doubt we will ever race another horse. One more owner lost to racing. How many more owners can NZTR afford to do without? Maybe it will end up like the UK. The "sport of kings" i.e. unless you are mega-rich, bugger off.

You are so right. I have shares in an unraced filly currently, have raced others before. Not in it to make money, but a realistic chance to do so would be nice.

With stakes the way they are, very few would actually profit beyond initial costs, trainers fees, vet fees etc. The stakes are just not there. A lot of other costs have gone up, but stakes have actually reduced, especially to the majority of horse owners in this country.

The breeders of the filly I have shares in, are certainly feeling the way you describe.

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A small breeder I am.

2009 got 5 fillies from 5 foals.

2010 1 colt and 1 filly

What a disaster. I only wanted to sell half of them so I can race the others.

And who could afford to race all those? But twas my own fault to think there might be a place for me in this breeding/racing climate of ours.

I am now in damage control and about to exit.

Have 5 coming this year to good enough sires.

Thewayyouare

Falkirk

Tavistock

Ekraar

Lucky Unicorn.

AND I WANT OUT NOW.

Of the horses already in work

Will syndicate and take 1 to Victoria to race, another being prepped for Brisbane.

What's the point/pleasure of racing here?

I saw some excellent horses in the Select Sale that reached half of their service fee and last year's prices, and wonderful fillies too that nobody wanted. It was downright morbid below the top echelon. I cannot but believe many of those passed in with small or no bids placed on them at the sales, will be on the hounds truck quite soon. And when it comes to the Mixed Sale later in the year (which I can't bring myself to go to), a lot of fine in foal mares will meet the same fate. There will be so many being "culled".

I wonder if a truthful debrief of what's happening to our industry will enlighten us enough to make informed decisions about our involvement in the business.

The studs must surely have some harsh decisions to make too! Their confidence in serving clients comes under serious fire.

Interesting times, but there will be many who will now abandon this industry.

The question is, will this be what is needed "going forward"?

Talk about a Towering Inferno!

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The Festival Sale was an absolute Disaster for the breeder. The Premier and select were not much better as the cost of sevice fees and travelling costs for broodmares to and from Aus. are expensive. The Select Sale was probably the best value for breeders but not by that much.

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Too many studs

Too many stallions

Too many overpriced stud fees

Too many overpaid NZTR/NZRB employees

Too many backroom deals to inflate prices at the sales.

Too low stakes

Too low sales returns to small breeders.

As the ad says. "Boy I love this game!!!!" NOT

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Too many studs

Too many stallions

Too many overpriced stud fees

Too many overpaid NZTR/NZRB employees

Too many backroom deals to inflate prices at the sales.

Too low stakes

Too low sales returns to small breeders.

As the ad says. "Boy I love this game!!!!" NOT

And one other, too low punter participation brought about by overpaid administration making bad calls.

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Too many studs

Too many stallions

Too many overpriced stud fees

Too many overpaid NZTR/NZRB employees

Too many backroom deals to inflate prices at the sales.

Too low stakes

Too low sales returns to small breeders.

As the ad says. "Boy I love this game!!!!" NOT

Says it all.

Now I'll put these questions to our administrators.

Were most of us wrong when we started to shout gloom?

What's the prognosis for "going forward" now?

What's the strategy to keep good horses racing in NZ so the TAB can operate?

(Start with stakes!)

What's your message now to NZ owners to keep them spending to put horses on tracks?

To the NZThoroughbred Breeders Assoc. -

Are we (below the big studs) now defunct?

What will be your call/response to the breeding industry? (Sales formats, studs etc)

No more motivational claptrap please. Get real and spell it out.

ALL of the above quote is REALITY.

The Karaka Sales put the final nail in many coffins.

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Says it all.

Now I'll put these questions to our administrators.

Were most of us wrong when we started to shout gloom?

What's the prognosis for "going forward" now?

What's the strategy to keep good horses racing in NZ so the TAB can operate?

(Start with stakes!)

What's your message now to NZ owners to keep them spending to put horses on tracks?

ALL of the above quote is REALITY

The Karaka Sales put the final nail in many coffins.

The TAB doesn't need racing in NZ to operate. It can function and make a huge profit on overseas racing and sports.

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the performance by NZRB during its entire existance has been woeful and the only increase in profit has been as a direct result of winstons over 30 million per annum of tax cuts

The situation that the industry finds itself in now was inevitable but I am very surprised how quickly it got there . Clearly there needs to be a massive clean of top administrators and cost saving before any progress can be made.

The idea that MS and AB continue in their positions when they know so little about the NZ industry is appalling. The way back for the industry is going to be very difficult unless the government can be persuaded to part with more money but even then a viable solution is need to ensure the future of the industry. We can't just pee it away like winstons money was.

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I'm really worried.

I have an O'reilly mare which is really light on pedigree due to 2nd/3rd dams only having 1-2 foals each. Her dam was stakes placed but she has had issues and bad luck with her produce. She is racing at moment - just need a little luck.

I'm young have no thoughts of buying a house and just want to bred & race good horses, but also give her a good shot, and back my judgement.

The SI sale was a disaster and I think the state of racing in NZ isn't much better, causing the ripple effect with local buyers at Karaka. As a buyer its a great time to buy a horse as the sheriff has said. Racing has its issues, though I think racing in the Sth is better than it is in Central Districts, and the racing in the nth will always be solid because of horse numbers, but depends on the administartors.

I intend to follow the dream and hope it is better by the time I sell in 2 years. A soviet star a mate and I have will foal next season to Gallant Guru - fingers crossed her Falkirk colt in Victoria lives up to his potential.

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This "collapse" of NZ racing has been building up for 30 years, and in addition to the excessive cost structure to run the industry, the other big factor leading to its demise, is that there has not been the rationalisation required to reduce the number of courses where racing is held. Racing cannot expect to get support from the next generation of people when nearly all of the courses provide 1950s-1960s facilities and deteritorating, poorly maintained assets. No-one has been prepared to deal with the empty stands and see that few clubs have the finance required for capital works. What needs to happen is radical but necessary. For example, in the Waikato, I would close EVERY current track for racing, and that includes Te Rapa where the track surface may be great, but the 1960s facilities are a joke,- purchase a farm in central Waikato and build a brand new multi purpose race track which would also have facilities for other equine and non-equine income. Without this radical approach, racing in NZ is haeding for oblivion.

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This "collapse" of NZ racing has been building up for 30 years, and in addition to the excessive cost structure to run the industry, the other big factor leading to its demise, is that there has not been the rationalisation required to reduce the number of courses where racing is held. Racing cannot expect to get support from the next generation of people when nearly all of the courses provide 1950s-1960s facilities and deteritorating, poorly maintained assets. No-one has been prepared to deal with the empty stands and see that few clubs have the finance required for capital works. What needs to happen is radical but necessary. For example, in the Waikato, I would close EVERY current track for racing, and that includes Te Rapa where the track surface may be great, but the 1960s facilities are a joke,- purchase a farm in central Waikato and build a brand new multi purpose race track which would also have facilities for other equine and non-equine income. Without this radical approach, racing in NZ is haeding for oblivion.

Spot on bazach

Society has changed...racing refuses to change with it

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This "collapse" of NZ racing has been building up for 30 years, and in addition to the excessive cost structure to run the industry, the other big factor leading to its demise, is that there has not been the rationalisation required to reduce the number of courses where racing is held. Racing cannot expect to get support from the next generation of people when nearly all of the courses provide 1950s-1960s facilities and deteritorating, poorly maintained assets. No-one has been prepared to deal with the empty stands and see that few clubs have the finance required for capital works. What needs to happen is radical but necessary. For example, in the Waikato, I would close EVERY current track for racing, and that includes Te Rapa where the track surface may be great, but the 1960s facilities are a joke,- purchase a farm in central Waikato and build a brand new multi purpose race track which would also have facilities for other equine and non-equine income. Without this radical approach, racing in NZ is haeding for oblivion.

Careful- you will be locked up for talking common sense.

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