poundforpound

The cream rises to the top

24 posts in this topic

Can’t argue with class. Also interesting that there appeared to be a strong inside bias.

Other than 1st two races 7 of 8 winners (and most placegetters) drew inside 6. Exception was R6 where winner got a lovely run on rails.

Horses which got back and went wide were no hope all day.

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27 minutes ago, fitzy said:

Can’t argue with class. Also interesting that there appeared to be a strong inside bias.

Other than 1st two races 7 of 8 winners (and most placegetters) drew inside 6. Exception was R6 where winner got a lovely run on rails.

Horses which got back and went wide were no hope all day.

Honesty ?

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20 minutes ago, Beekeeper said:

Of the 60 horses placing in 10 races  at the Auckland Derby day races  45 were bred overseas !!!!! What’s going on ?

My guess is best sold overseas , others here mostly gelded , most of Derby field gelded which is odd  , unlike in Europe where they are banned from classics bar Irish and French legers  as classics  in  theory are  the test of the best of the  breed over generations  therefore unless you  import stallions, send mares overseas or buy overseas increasingly the NZ breeding industry becomes irrelevant .  When was last  and how often  has a  NZ Derby winner  sired a Derby winner in Oz or NZ  in last 15 or so years. I haven't checked so might be loads but I don't think so.

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      33 minutes ago, Beekeeper said:

Of the 60 horses placing in 10 races  at the Auckland Derby day races  45 were bred overseas !!!!! What’s going on ?

Sorry I am a bit confused Beekeeper.

9 of the 30 horses that were top-3 at Ellerslie yesterday were bred in Aus. The other 21 bred in NZ.

Def a good day for Aussie breds (derby quinella) but don't forget NZ breds win a few decent races over there eh.

Cheers, Matt

 

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7 minutes ago, Beekeeper said:

cirrection.  Of the 30 horses placed yesterday if one looks at their Sires and  Dams (60) 45 ——15!

One thing I would say in defence of NZ , it's so international now you would likely get same result in Aust apart from Sprints  ,South Africa  GB , Ire or France . Probably imho the last kind of closed shop might be USA dirt runners .If you look at results of South American classics in the main centres there most are by Euro raced and bred stallions.Likes of Mastercraftsman  runners dominated Chilean Derby last month, and Medaglio D'ro dominates everywhere they run.

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5 hours ago, Red Rum said:

My guess is best sold overseas , others here mostly gelded , most of Derby field gelded which is odd  , unlike in Europe where they are banned from classics bar Irish and French legers  as classics  in  theory are  the test of the best of the  breed over generations  therefore unless you  import stallions, send mares overseas or buy overseas increasingly the NZ breeding industry becomes irrelevant .  When was last  and how often  has a  NZ Derby winner  sired a Derby winner in Oz or NZ  in last 15 or so years. I haven't checked so might be loads but I don't think so.

I doubt there has been many of late but the NZ bred Nom Du Jeu bred the Hong Kong Derby winner after winning the Vic Derby.

Prior to that NZ bred Grosvenor [ by Sir Tristram ] won a Derby [maybe more?] and sired a NZ Derby winner and Ebony Grosve who I think won both Australia's main derbies. Plus sired another derby winner in Omnicorp.

In a short stud career EG sired Mandela who was runner-up to Xcellent in 2004 NZ Derby.

Much earlier Sobig [ Summertime - Passive ] won the NZ Derby and sired a couple of winners of NZ Derby as well.His mother Passive also won the  Great Northern Derby.

So Big sired Think Big [2x Melbourne Cups]

Of course NZ used to have more derbies...the GN , the NZ and the Wellington.

Also an 

 ice cream dipped in chocolate was a chocolate derby !

I stand to be corrected .

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1 hour ago, tasman man 11 said:

I doubt there has been many of late but the NZ bred Nom Du Jeu bred the Hong Kong Derby winner after winning the Vic Derby.

Prior to that NZ bred Grosvenor [ by Sir Tristram ] won a Derby [maybe more?] and sired a NZ Derby winner and Ebony Grosve who I think won both Australia's main derbies. Plus sired another derby winner in Omnicorp.

In a short stud career EG sired Mandela who was runner-up to Xcellent in 2004 NZ Derby.

Much earlier Sobig [ Summertime - Passive ] won the NZ Derby and sired a couple of winners of NZ Derby as well.His mother Passive also won the  Great Northern Derby.

So Big sired Think Big [2x Melbourne Cups]

Of course NZ used to have more derbies...the GN , the NZ and the Wellington.

Also an 

 ice cream dipped in chocolate was a chocolate derby !

I stand to be corrected .

Nom Du Jeu won The AJC Derby not The VRC Derby

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20 hours ago, Red Rum said:

My guess is best sold overseas , others here mostly gelded , most of Derby field gelded which is odd  , unlike in Europe where they are banned from classics bar Irish and French legers  as classics  in  theory are  the test of the best of the  breed over generations  therefore unless you  import stallions, send mares overseas or buy overseas increasingly the NZ breeding industry becomes irrelevant .  When was last  and how often  has a  NZ Derby winner  sired a Derby winner in Oz or NZ  in last 15 or so years. I haven't checked so might be loads but I don't think so.

Not many colts have won the NZ Derby in the period you are talking about. in the last 29 years since 1990 by my reckoning only seven colts have won the race:

Cavalleri  1991

St Reims  2002

Redoute's Dancer  2003

Jimmy Choux  2011

Puccini  2014

Mongolian Khan  2015

Crown Prosecutor  2019

Both Cavalleri and Redoute's Dancer incidentally never won another race after winning the NZ Derby. Cavalleri stod only for a short time in NZ before being exported somewhere.

Both Puccini and Mongolian Khan don't have any 3yos yet. 

 

 

  

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28 minutes ago, rdytdy said:

Not many colts have won the NZ Derby in the period you are talking about. in the last 29 years since 1990 by my reckoning only seven colts have won the race:

Cavalleri  1991

St Reims  2002

Redoute's Dancer  2003

Jimmy Choux  2011

Puccini  2014

Mongolian Khan  2015

Crown Prosecutor  2019

Both Cavalleri and Redoute's Dancer incidentally never won another race after winning the NZ Derby. Cavalleri stod only for a short time in NZ before being exported somewhere.

Both Puccini and Mongolian Khan don't have any 3yos yet. 

 

 

  

Derby along with other classics  is the test of the best of a generation , always thought it strange the best of the crop have balls  chopped off . So different from a lot of other Derbys . I think Funny Cide was first gelding for years to win in Kentucky  and none since . 

 

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15 hours ago, tasman man 11 said:

I doubt there has been many of late but the NZ bred Nom Du Jeu bred the Hong Kong Derby winner after winning the Vic Derby.

Prior to that NZ bred Grosvenor [ by Sir Tristram ] won a Derby [maybe more?] and sired a NZ Derby winner and Ebony Grosve who I think won both Australia's main derbies. Plus sired another derby winner in Omnicorp.

In a short stud career EG sired Mandela who was runner-up to Xcellent in 2004 NZ Derby.

Much earlier Sobig [ Summertime - Passive ] won the NZ Derby and sired a couple of winners of NZ Derby as well.His mother Passive also won the  Great Northern Derby.

So Big sired Think Big [2x Melbourne Cups]

Of course NZ used to have more derbies...the GN , the NZ and the Wellington.

Also an 

 ice cream dipped in chocolate was a chocolate derby !

I stand to be corrected .

Balmerino of course left the double Derby winner Bounty Hawk  (VRC Derby and WATC Derby) 

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44 minutes ago, rdytdy said:

Balmerino of course left the double Derby winner Bounty Hawk  (VRC Derby and WATC Derby) 

Balmerino, closest John Dunlop came to winning the Arc.

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On 3/3/2019 at 8:13 AM, poundforpound said:

On the big race days...in the big races, always the same....

Mckee x 2

Baker Forsman x 3

Rogerson

Kelso

Pike

Moroney / Gerard 

Sweet P Marsh

 

 

No class is a dozen Bluffs for $25

Great ad

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the days of the owner trainer winning a big race seem pretty well over- used to like those guys winning - kiwi veandercross etc I remember  king amber winning 4 days of the old summer carnival- h morgan Avondale?

 

bluff oysters champagne only game in town is leos joint

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2 hours ago, tim vince said:

the days of the owner trainer winning a big race seem pretty well over- used to like those guys winning - kiwi veandercross etc I remember  king amber winning 4 days of the old summer carnival- h morgan Avondale?

 

bluff oysters champagne only game in town is leos joint

And made a lot easier for the big boys training horses by closing down the country tracks per say .

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14 hours ago, Whyisit said:

The ones quoted in the Messarra report.

Good luck if your relying on his report to dictate course closures. There is a lot in the pipeline about this issue im guessing so until they actually get closed then take it with a pinch of salt.

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