crustyngrizzly 1,702 Report post Posted February 21, 2019 Is a thoroughbred or standardbred considered an asset for CGT? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
talk 308 Report post Posted February 21, 2019 Not if it is a painting Black Kirrama and Patiti 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADM 225 Report post Posted February 21, 2019 More a liability Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tauhei Notts 1,413 Report post Posted February 21, 2019 If you claim the GST on expenses related to that horse, then the horse will be considered a business asset and gains will be taxable. If you do not claim the GST on expenses then the horse will be considered a personal chattel and no capital gains tax will be payable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ardentbuzz 31 Report post Posted February 21, 2019 2 hours ago, Tauhei Notts said: If you claim the GST on expenses related to that horse, then the horse will be considered a business asset and gains will be taxable. If you do not claim the GST on expenses then the horse will be considered a personal chattel and no capital gains tax will be payable. So if the horse is no good and is a business asset can you get a Capital Gains Tax refund on the purchase price when you sell it on???? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breeder 609 Report post Posted February 21, 2019 1 hour ago, ardentbuzz said: So if the horse is no good and is a business asset can you get a Capital Gains Tax refund on the purchase price when you sell it on???? That would be the logical thing but there is no way that will occur. Same as if a rental property losses value. Cullen's view will be "suck it up". The big question for industry will be, will this effectively kill the "pin hook" business From what I have seen the rural and provincial people will be hit the hardest. Midget 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breeder 609 Report post Posted February 21, 2019 Extremely good questions pfp. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tauhei Notts 1,413 Report post Posted February 22, 2019 In my opinion that case would rest on whether the purchasers of the $50,000 yearling were registered for GST. If they were not registered for GST then I am sure the windfall profits would be tax free. And, when the horse was syndicated it should be structured in such a way that you can get the big big depreciation allowances on that stallion. Once you have a stallion at stud that horse is no longer a personal chattel, as the term personal chattel is written about in Cullen's Paper. There was a Taxation Review Authority case concerning Mannix, in about 1974, that covered that. But, if the purchasers of that $50,000 yearling were registered for GST then those windfall profits would be taxable income, for they would be in the business of trading horses and the horses would no longer be called personal chattels. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Clydesdale 229 Report post Posted February 22, 2019 P4P - I don’t think Mr Notts quite has a grip on things taxable, but I would suggest that Mr Cullen thinks that if you gain you pay, but if you don’t gain, you also don’t get to claim. That’s all fair as far as he is concerned.......It will have as much chance to get off the ground as a walrus. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam Robson 1,551 Report post Posted February 22, 2019 8 hours ago, John Clydesdale said: P4P - I don’t think Mr Notts quite has a grip on things taxable, but I would suggest that Mr Cullen thinks that if you gain you pay, but if you don’t gain, you also don’t get to claim. That’s all fair as far as he is concerned.......It will have as much chance to get off the ground as a walrus. You mean, like Kiwibuild? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breeder 609 Report post Posted February 22, 2019 An interesting bit from a NewsHub article by Ryan Bridge. It looks like Cullen is back peddling a bit or he is indirectly telling us he was acting under riding instructions. "The CGT includes business gains on the sale of businesses. This is the most controversial aspect of the plan. Cullen told me yesterday it is his least favourite option because the compliance costs on businesses are estimated to be worth anywhere up to $1 billion." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonkatime 323 Report post Posted February 22, 2019 8 minutes ago, Breeder said: An interesting bit from a NewsHub article by Ryan Bridge. It looks like Cullen is back peddling a bit or he is indirectly telling us he was acting under riding instructions. "The CGT includes business gains on the sale of businesses. This is the most controversial aspect of the plan. Cullen told me yesterday it is his least favourite option because the compliance costs on businesses are estimated to be worth anywhere up to $1 billion." It’s quite subjective valuing a business, I think as part of the report they were exploring the idea but the compliance costs compared to the revenue raised would probably make it barely worth while. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flockofewes2 216 Report post Posted February 22, 2019 1 hour ago, poundforpound said: Me Cullen has the exact same disease every socialist ( Labour government ) has, he thinks he knows how to spend your money better than you do, and he thinks the government can tax its way into prosperity .....all it does is try to rectify the uneven distribution of prosperity by creating an even distribution of misery .... but every nine years we elect these lunatics from Grey Lynn / Ponsonby so they can impose their warped values and grubby liberal habits on us. We never learn. Labour Govts are progressive(apart from fake ones like Rogernomics). National Govts retain the status quo,and primarily enact legislation to enrich a minority.They are very good at embedding urban myths as to them being 'sound financial managers',and a' safe pair of hands'.Good PR and plumbing new depths in black ops are hallmarks of the last Nat Govt. Most of the good things average NZ'ers enjoy,healthcare,education,minimum wage,holidays,are a result of Labour initiatives. National are very good at disowning their ex leaders and P.M's...Muldoon,Bolger,Shipley...(add Key..soon) as they contour their principles frequently to reflect popular voting patterns. Insider, drewandjo and bazach 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryb 2,064 Report post Posted February 22, 2019 5 minutes ago, flockofewes2 said: Most of the good things average NZ'ers enjoy,healthcare,education,minimum wage,holidays,are a result of Labour initiatives. Most of the bad things are as a result of labour initiatives. Soaring social welfare costs, lower crime sentances, poor infastructure spending, foreign policy disasters. increasing refugee's, reintroduction of trade unions, napier and Breeder 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flockofewes2 216 Report post Posted February 23, 2019 2 hours ago, poundforpound said: Run out of your medication have you ? . and presumably living in a state owned caravan..... very poor attempt at challenging the proposition. Mind you it is based on sound foundations. Do not waste your ad hominum epithets. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flockofewes2 216 Report post Posted February 23, 2019 2 hours ago, barryb said: Most of the bad things are as a result of labour initiatives. Soaring social welfare costs, lower crime sentances, poor infastructure spending, foreign policy disasters. increasing refugee's, reintroduction of trade unions, Not one thing you mention qualifies for any objective critique.i.e you cannot sustain your fallacious position. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohokaman 5,843 Report post Posted February 23, 2019 You have clearly forgotten the healthy position National left this mob : So Grant Robertson has been gifted almost the strongest set of Government books in the OECD. Some key data: Tax revenue up 6.1% and expenditure up 5.5% Average wages up 3.0% Jobs up 3.7% OBEGAL surplus of $5.5 billion Total surplus of $8.4 billion after accounting for investment gains Net debt down $2 billion, decreasing from 21.7% to 19.9% of GDP napier 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohokaman 5,843 Report post Posted February 23, 2019 And this little diamond will affect thousands... https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12206285 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flockofewes2 216 Report post Posted February 23, 2019 8 minutes ago, Ohokaman said: You have clearly forgotten the healthy position National left this mob : So Grant Robertson has been gifted almost the strongest set of Government books in the OECD. Some key data: Tax revenue up 6.1% and expenditure up 5.5% Average wages up 3.0% Jobs up 3.7% OBEGAL surplus of $5.5 billion Total surplus of $8.4 billion after accounting for investment gains Net debt down $2 billion, decreasing from 21.7% to 19.9% of GDP The reality is that Govts have little direct impact on the economy compared to factors like interest rates,forex rates and international events. As for being' gifted 'a strong set of books'...English acknowledged that fact when he succeeded Cullen as M.O.F. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flockofewes2 216 Report post Posted February 23, 2019 9 minutes ago, Ohokaman said: And this little diamond will affect thousands... https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12206285 A tax working group has submitted their findings for discussion and analysis. That is ALL. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohokaman 5,843 Report post Posted February 23, 2019 33 minutes ago, flockofewes2 said: A tax working group has submitted their findings for discussion and analysis. That is ALL. It has as much chance of flying as I have...... Baz (NZ) 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breeder 609 Report post Posted February 23, 2019 1 hour ago, flockofewes2 said: A tax working group has submitted their findings for discussion and analysis. That is ALL. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flockofewes2 216 Report post Posted February 23, 2019 32 minutes ago, Ohokaman said: It has as much chance of flying as I have...... it is not an it...there are many tax options presented. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRea 5 Report post Posted February 23, 2019 P4P Best wishes for your wonderful mare today. Very testing ground indeed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breeder 609 Report post Posted February 23, 2019 oops Not sure what happened to my reply to flockofewe2 above. It was meant add that "discussion and analysis" is what is happening on the tread" Also I think Cullen said something like -- "you will not be able to do much because we've spent it all. The cupboard is bare" so I'm not sure that is what leaving the economy in a good state is all about. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...