psyc

Large Debt, What to Do???

47 posts in this topic

3 hours ago, psyc said:

Yes, would love to hear from the trainer.

Is guts of this , person leases horse to race, basically it's not very good through ability or illness/injury . The person then drops it back to you at their cost hopefully in decent condition fed well and watered without obvious untreated injuries  that should have been  urgently attended to ie cuts , weeping festering  sores etcs but you want person to pay for it to sit in your field even though it's no good for what it was leased for ? 

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4 hours ago, Red Rum said:

Is guts of this , person leases horse to race, basically it's not very good through ability or illness/injury . The person then drops it back to you at their cost hopefully in decent condition fed well and watered without obvious untreated injuries  that should have been  urgently attended to ie cuts , weeping festering  sores etcs but you want person to pay for it to sit in your field even though it's no good for what it was leased for ? 

Thats what it seems like to me as the lease has not run its term...maybe I have the cat by the tail, but thats what it sounds like.

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Basically , the horse has been sent home but the lease has not been officially cancelled. Thus the owner has continued to graze the horse and charge the lessee for as long as the lease should run or until it is officially cancelled or expired. Why, I wonder, did the lessor not clarify that the lease was over and have it ratified as such? Or why did the lessee not make it clear he no longer wanted the horse and, again, annul the lease? Grey area here and I don't like the chances of the lessor on this occasion.

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6 hours ago, Blue said:

Basically , the horse has been sent home but the lease has not been officially cancelled. Thus the owner has continued to graze the horse and charge the lessee for as long as the lease should run or until it is officially cancelled or expired. Why, I wonder, did the lessor not clarify that the lease was over and have it ratified as such? Or why did the lessee not make it clear he no longer wanted the horse and, again, annul the lease? Grey area here and I don't like the chances of the lessor on this occasion.

That's the crux of it Blue , the trainer didn't pull up in dead of night and kick horse out . If he drops it off says spell it here and I will have it back in couple months for another prep  it's down to trainer , if he drops it off says horse is a snail it's in good health but of no use for what it's leased then lease is clearly then over imho  and it's down to owner surely . It's a minefield and a mess . It's a strange one most people would be quite clear in the instructions when horse is returned I would have thought . If owner of horse didn't want it back and lease holder didn't want it I would fear for the horses welfare .

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This situation looks to be complicated by two horses having been leased by the same lessor to the same lessee at the same time. The lessee wants to keep the one that goes alright and cut ties with the one that doesn't. Lessor wants the lease to either be cancelled for both (in which case lessor can now race the good one) or neither (in which case lessee can pay lessor for agistment of the no-good one until the lessee ends the lease of both horses).

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4 minutes ago, chiknsmack said:

This situation looks to be complicated by two horses having been leased by the same lessor to the same lessee at the same time. The lessee wants to keep the one that goes alright and cut ties with the one that doesn't. Lessor wants the lease to either be cancelled for both (in which case lessor can now race the good one) or neither (in which case lessee can pay lessor for agistment of the no-good one until the lessee ends the lease of both horses).

Oh I see now , not straightforward  at all, I'd pay the 6k if the second one looks real good, and decent lease length  and suck it up.

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2 minutes ago, Pam Robson said:

Assholes....clearly the safety and welfare of the horse is secondary to someone's ego.

Treated as simply a commodity.  It's a messy situation  . What if the horse spooked while this was going on and ran into the road cleaning up the horse and some poor unsuspecting occupants of a  car on dark unlit high speed road .Ive seen a cow do a full on dive through a car , it's a mess for all. They need to sort it out . Must be a middle ground .

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TAURANGA FAVOURITE SCRATCHED AFTER BIZARRE OVERNIGHT INCIDENT

Posted by Dennis Ryan | Mar 23, 2019 | Featured, Gallops

Tauranga favourite scratched after bizarre overnight incident

Talented racemare Pop Star Princess has been scratched from today’s Tauranga race meeting after an apparent overnight attempt to uplift her from the Cambridge stables of her trainer and part-owner Fred Cornege.

Pop Star Princess, the winner of three of her 14 starts and runner-up in the last three, was the pre-post favourite for the second race at Tauranga, the Rating 82 NZB Insurance Pearl Series Race. Had she won, Cornege was planning to enter the Makfi mare for the Gr. 1 Fiber Fresh New Zealand Thoroughbred Breeders’ Stakes at Te Aroha on April 6.

Those plans are now out the window after what Cornege describes as an extraordinary and disturbing turn of events during the early hours of this morning.

“Some time after one o’clock my wife Lindsay got up when she heard the dogs barking,” Cornege told www.theinformant.co.nz. “She let the dogs out and they raced over to the stables, but when Lindsay got there Pop Star Princess wasn’t in her box.

“Then when she went searching she saw a horsefloat behind a ute out on the road, with three people near it. Apparently when she got closer one of the people told her was taking the mare.

“Pop Star Princess had broken away and was galloping around our track, which is between the stables and the road boundary.”

Cornege in the meantime had called the police.

“Thankfully two, maybe three, police cars then turned up – it was amazing how quickly they got there,” he continued. “By this time the mare had been caught and loaded on the float, and we had to leave her there while the police took control of the situation.

“One of the people told the police that he was taking the horse. It was only when I showed the police the lease form stating that Lindsay and I held an 80 per cent share in the horse that they allowed her to be unloaded from the float and be returned to her box.”

According to Cornege, the unwelcome visitors were officially trespassed from the property which is located adjacent to State Highway One just south of Cambridge.

“It was very unnerving, you never expect something like that to happen,” he added. “Pop Star Princess was understandably pretty upset while all this was going on. We’ve never had her on a trailer float and with her being stuck on it while the police went through all the details she got very restless, kicking out and carrying on.

“Thankfully she doesn’t appear to have suffered any serious injury, but she has knocked her hocks around. We really wanted to run her today, but it wasn’t possible after everything she had been through.

“I got in contact with the RIU later this morning to put them in the picture and the police have asked us to drop by the station today and they’ll take official statements from us.”

Racing Integrity Unit regional investigator Andy Cruickshank acknowledged that Cornege had been in contact, but given the police involvement it was a civil matter and therefore did not involve the RIU at this point.

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12 minutes ago, puha said:

Who would lease a horse off that nutter in the future ?

Well it depends which party is right? Is Repossession legal without notification?

I remember going on regular repossession rides for a car dealer when customers had not paid . Rightly or wrongly?

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40 minutes ago, Baz (NZ) said:

Well it depends which party is right? Is Repossession legal without notification?

I remember going on regular repossession rides for a car dealer when customers had not paid . Rightly or wrongly?

Rightly or wrongly horses are quiet regularly returned when its apparent they wont make a racehorse .Both parties are usually amicable about the situation . So this is an unusual situation .

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I can't believe the tosser had the stupidity to bring the matter to a public forum and then attempt such an action.

Obviously he couldn't care less about his horse, what a bloody shame she will have to return to his ownership eventually. 

No doubt the RIU are being their  normal pro-active selves. 

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This situation had me reviewing my current leases.  I have never considered the expiry date to be absolute ie early termination of a dud or injured horse has always been a possible outcome.

My leases include the following terms (and they weren't written by a lawyer)

2.0 TERM OF LEASE

2.1 The Lease will commence on 1 March 2017 and continue for a period of five years terminating on 28 February 2022 unless terminated earlier.

10.0 TERMINATION PROVISIONS

10.2 The Lessee may terminate this agreement at any time upon giving 14 days’ notice in writing to the Owner.  Upon termination of this agreement for any reason, the Lessee shall, within 7 days of the termination or prior to the horse next racing (whichever is the earlier) advise NZTR of such cancellaion.

My understanding is that this supports industry practice.These things are always best to be understood from the outset.  In the absence of clarity, the right thing to do should outweigh the legal position.

  

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11 hours ago, Insider said:

Large Debit, What to Do???   [Thread heading]

Thank goodness no one on Race Cafe was silly enough to advise the actions that were taken!

Large Debit?

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