psyc

Large Debt, What to Do???

47 posts in this topic

What is the best option when a trainer owes several thousand dollars on a lease for agistment??? Have tried NZTR, RIU and email address on lease form for outstanding debt. Have informed the trainer if debt now outstanding for up to 12 months is not paid I will go public. This is the start.

I am prepared to sell the debt to a collector.

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6 minutes ago, psyc said:

What is the best option when a trainer owes several thousand dollars on a lease for agistment??? Have tried NZTR, RIU and email address on lease form for outstanding debt. Have informed the trainer if debt now outstanding for up to 12 months is not paid I will go public. This is the start.

I am prepared to sell the debt to a collector.

This is a civil matter surely, you have many options at your disposal, small claims if it’s a debt in dispute, a debt collection agency, or the courts if it’s just an unpaid debt, and that could lead to bankruptcy. 

Why would you bring it here ? It’s fairly average behaviour IMO, and as for selling the debt....mmm....if you’re suggesting you’d sell it to standover men / gangs that’s reprehensible 

 

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Lawyers cost too much. The trainer has been a bully to me and if I sell the debt I dont care what happens once I get my money. I neglected to mention his son is a lawyer. That is why the legal system is a waste of time.

My understanding is that NZTR or the RIU could take away his license?? But at this point they are not interested in helping. I have only a small number of horses and little knowledge around this matter. I am asking for advice not criticism, can you help? Bye the way there are legitimate agencies that will buy the debt. Or are you a gangster?

I bring to a public forum because I want a public discussion on this. How many people are in the same boat?

What do you mean fairly average behaviour IMO? I thought the average person pays there bills???

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The civil courts will take months if not years to achieve anything and will cost you a fortune in legal fees and  the disputes tribunal will only handle the matter if the debt is in dispute and if a judgement is made in your favour it will not be enforced if he refuses to pay. The best bet is to take a lien over any property or horses he may have at your place or to sue him for bankruptcy

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Why take a lien when I own the horse he has leased???? So my options are sell the debt or small claims?? Should I name him publicly and shame him into paying his debt?? I could shame him sooo badly on social media??? I am sick of what people get away with through anonymity.

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If he has leased the horse and he has not paid you any percentages that he owes you from the horses racing then it would be a matter for the racecourse detective. I suggest you get in touch with the Racing Integrity Unit

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I have found RIU personnel very helpful with a recent debt...sorted to the satisfaction of both parties.

If you cannot get any help from that avenue, perhaps your grounds for claiming loss are a tad shaky?

Considering the son is a lawyer, one would assume he/she has at least a rudimentary understanding of rights within the law.

In the meantime, I hope the horse(s) concerned is/ are in good health and not languishing in a back paddock somewhere.

Go to a reputable debt collector  if your grounds are sound and don't do business with him/her again.

 

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I thought that NZTR used to list those owners, trainers Etc that had unpaid racing debts? If it was me, I would write to him and advise he/she has 7 days to pay any dues owing after which time, any unpaid amount will be listed with an official debt collection agency. This would probably affect the debtors credit rating - something to avoid. Show no mercy to the debtor. Doesn’t the Mongrel Mob have a debt collecting arm?

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1 hour ago, The Diceman Cometh said:

Doesn’t the Mongrel Mob have a debt collecting arm?

Yes, they do and very effective they are to.

Happen to know they're very effective TDC. A large, say 150kgs-  well-spoken, softly spoken,well-presented man arriving on your doorstep on a Harley can bring satisfactory results without any intimidation at all. The first visit is introductory and a reminder of one's obligations. The second visit, not so much -  but there is rarely need for a second visit.

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6 hours ago, arjay said:

Sell the debt, what at 10 cents in the dollar, I doubt you would get a buyer. Mongrel mob, dont think they be interested at all

He says it's a 'large debt' RJ. 10-15% could be a good day's pay and at least get's satisfaction for the creditor and brings the matter to a close.

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1 hour ago, Blue said:

He says it's a 'large debt' RJ. 10-15% could be a good day's pay and at least get's satisfaction for the creditor and brings the matter to a close.

The debt is $6000 would be happy to take $5000. Anyone want to collect money? . And he has another horse of mine, Pop Star Princes. He owes $6000 agistment on "Just Twiggy".

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How long a period is the Agistment for ?  Seems an expensive agistment bill ? Is he disputing the amount ?  

Was it sent home for a spell and not raced again ?  Something doesn’t add up - seems unfair you can name him but not identify yourself  

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55 minutes ago, psyc said:

The debt is $6000 would be happy to take $5000. Anyone want to collect money? . And he has another horse of mine, Pop Star Princes. He owes $6000 agistment on "Just Twiggy".

If you want to name him then please be prepared to have full disclosure and put your name to your posts to please.

Thanks.I do not think this is the place for this to be solved as P4P suggested...if the trainer concerned would like to also give his side of the story it would be helpful for everyone to make a full judgement... i believe there is always two sides to very story...

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34 minutes ago, Just Looking said:

How long a period is the Agistment for ?  Seems an expensive agistment bill ? Is he disputing the amount ?  

Was it sent home for a spell and not raced again ?  Something doesn’t add up - seems unfair you can name him but not identify yourself  

If you knew how to use the interweb it is not hard to find out my name. Go to NZTR website and search horse name.He delivered the horse home and it has been grazing here for 12 months still under a lease agreement. I have checked with NZTR and I am entitled to charge grazing whilst the lease is still registered with them. He wants to cancel the lease, we said no unless he also cancels the lease on our other horse he has. NZTR informs he cant have it both ways.He is convivial enough whilst he is on the winning side. When hes not he turns into a nasty bully utilizing his sons lawyering skill to intimidate and coerce.

 

As a consequence I will never lease out another horse and tell everyone I know the same. This is only my opinion?

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1 hour ago, psyc said:

The debt is $6000 would be happy to take $5000. Anyone want to collect money? . And he has another horse of mine, Pop Star Princes. He owes $6000 agistment on "Just Twiggy".

Not hard to work this one out. There are two couples involved in this, what is their view ??

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1 hour ago, Pam Robson said:

I'm pleased about that.

Why are you pleased Pam? Do you lease horses and look forward to ripping off poor ignorant owners like me. Don't worry has had plenty of warning about me going public. For me it seems the easiest form of redress is to make it public otherwise he hides and still does not pay. Is that what you do Pam?

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Generally, when a leased horse is finished, it is returned to the owner.

That appears to be what has happened here....but you are expecting the lessee to maintain a horse that is of no further use to him.

Of course ,  as the term of the lease appears to  be still current, that is your prerogative...but most owners put their horses welfare first and are pleased to have their charge home and safe.

I have leased scores of horses , for clients , syndicates, etc....and NEVER has an owner refused to cancel a lease if the animal seems to have no further use as a racehorse.

Often I am able to rehome them- with the owners approval of course....but I have  never been required to keep one until the lease runs out.

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Stables that is why i said there is two sides to every story...and pysc...stop mentioning the trainers name or I will stop you...thanks...this is not a place to air your dirty laundry...you have had many members give advice so please follow the good advice given if you think you have any recourse on the trainer...but this is something you need to sort out between the two of you or with the authorities.

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On 2/20/2019 at 6:59 PM, scooby3051 said:

If you want to name him then please be prepared to have full disclosure and put your name to your posts to please.

Thanks.I do not think this is the place for this to be solved as P4P suggested...if the trainer concerned would like to also give his side of the story it would be helpful for everyone to make a full judgement... i believe there is always two sides to very story...

Yes, would love to hear from the trainer.

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On 2/20/2019 at 8:42 PM, Stables said:

I understood that a lease was terminated upon delivery of the horse back to it's owner. I wash my hands of any further discussion on this matter

You too understand wrong. That is what you want to believe. The cancelled lease has never been signed, ergo it is still a contractual document.

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