Make Harness Racing Great Again

[Rusty 575]

9 hours ago, JJ Flash said:

Back to the original topic, why is it that clubs refuse to make any real effort to get young people back on course. You see them all turn up at Cup week for example yet no-one is there promoting the club and racing post those events. Where are the Apps and the inducements to get them back on track on other dates. For me , all clubs should have mandatory under 30 areas with lots of promos . Bands , reasonably priced F and B as well as say a few easy bets to help the newbies.

Greg

Excellent post. Great comments Greg. 

I became a member of the NZ Metro Trotting Club when I was 18 years old. After 12 years of membership I stood up at an AGM and asked the head honcho what tangible things had the club done in the past 12 months to try and attract younger people to the races, and what specific plans did they have moving forward to retain younger members of The Met (quite often it pays to already know the answers to the questions you are asking). 

The silence was deafening, although I think he may have started to slowly choke down! 

That was my last year of membership with the club and I haven't missed it at all. Probably won't be many members about in another 10-20 years unless drastic change occurs very quickly. 

[Newmarket RC 209]

7 hours ago, Rusty said:

Excellent post. Great comments Greg. 

I became a member of the NZ Metro Trotting Club when I was 18 years old. After 12 years of membership I stood up at an AGM and asked the head honcho what tangible things had the club done in the past 12 months to try and attract younger people to the races, and what specific plans did they have moving forward to retain younger members of The Met (quite often it pays to already know the answers to the questions you are asking). 

The silence was deafening, although I think he may have started to slowly choke down! 

That was my last year of membership with the club and I haven't missed it at all. Probably won't be many members about in another 10-20 years unless drastic change occurs very quickly. 

I think we are all hearing you Rusty. Didnt Ellerslie introduce a Whips and Spurs room  for younger race goers which proved very sucessful.

As for the Met its hamstrung by board members who are not in touch with commercial reality and what the future holds. McKenzie sorted the place out ,put in great structures and got it profitable after the Goodber years, the guy after him did nothing of note that i can see whilst its too early to say what the new CEO can do.

[what a post 811]

15 hours ago, Rusty said:

Excellent post. Great comments Greg. 

I became a member of the NZ Metro Trotting Club when I was 18 years old. After 12 years of membership I stood up at an AGM and asked the head honcho what tangible things had the club done in the past 12 months to try and attract younger people to the races, and what specific plans did they have moving forward to retain younger members of The Met (quite often it pays to already know the answers to the questions you are asking). 

The silence was deafening, although I think he may have started to slowly choke down! 

That was my last year of membership with the club and I haven't missed it at all. Probably won't be many members about in another 10-20 years unless drastic change occurs very quickly. 

Actually I think part of the reason for the decline in participation is because of the flawed logic that there needs to be major focus on bringing younger (18 to 35 year olds) people into the sport by directly targeting them through promotions,or whatever.  

Have they not worked out by now,after 40 years of hearing the same thing it does not work..

Being unable to recognize who you would successfully target  leads to failure in any strategy.

If you are to grow your business you should firstly identify who your current customers are, and then try and broaden the base of similar type people.If you do  research you will find that is how most successful businesses work.  

Why would you want to focus resources on attracting people who are,or soon will be  economically strained with mortgages and household debt, are raising  young families and simply don't have the means to participate. It just doesn't make sense to me. 

 One off attendances like cup days,or xmas at the races work because they are seen as being events. That is when the young people should be targeted, however people who attend days like that are  your couple of times a year racegoers. They are needed,however realistically they are just that,once or twice a year attendees. They may become more regular customers when they don't have the financial commitments .

Then you have those who are a little older and they may  bring their young families along to the races at  grass track meetings where they consider it suitable for young families. Is that not how many of us became involved in the sport,through contact established through parents.There it is again, different race meetings attract different clients. Each meeting should have a specific target audience.

As to owners ranks,as I say ,if you want to increase numbers then look to target similar type people who already are owners.

[Fartoomuch 1,376]

24 minutes ago, what a post said:

Actually I think part of the reason for the decline in participation is because of the flawed logic that there needs to be major focus on bringing younger (18 to 35 year olds) people into the sport by directly targeting them through promotions,or whatever.  

Have they not worked out by now,after 40 years of hearing the same thing it does not work..

Being unable to recognize who you would successfully target  leads to failure in any strategy.

If you are to grow your business you should firstly identify who your current customers are, and then try and broaden the base of similar type people.If you do  research you will find that is how most successful businesses work.  

Why would you want to focus resources on attracting people who are,or soon will be  economically strained with mortgages and household debt, are raising  young families and simply don't have the means to participate. It just doesn't make sense to me. 

 One off attendances like cup days,or xmas at the races work because they are seen as being events. That is when the young people should be targeted, however people who attend days like that are  your couple of times a year racegoers. They are needed,however realistically they are just that,once or twice a year attendees. They may become more regular customers when they don't have the financial commitments .

Then you have those who are a little older and they may  bring their young families along to the races at  grass track meetings where they consider it suitable for young families. Is that not how many of us became involved in the sport,through contact established through parents.There it is again, different race meetings attract different clients. Each meeting should have a specific target audience.

As to owners ranks,as I say ,if you want to increase numbers then look to target similar type people who already are owners.

Would you care to comment on the success of BGP or Whips and Spurs or do you think they are not successful at getting younger people involved.

[Nelli 434]

On 2/13/2019 at 1:07 PM, tim vince said:

I see part of the problem clogging up system  is no pints for placings 5 seconds and 5 6ths is the same as 5 lasts. Surely they shouldn't be the same.

This is exactly the point I was trying to say about having conditions. If a horse is stuck not moving up or down the ratings because it keeps on getting 4ths and 5ths and beaten up by lower rated horses not penalised for 2nds and 3rds, then what options do owners have but to sell. The horse has reached its mark and is simply costing money to race. Unless the rating system or field selection reflects current earnings, and our intermediate to good capability horses can have a chance of covering costs racing, then we will continue to lose both horses and owners.

[Nelli 434]

Agree picnic meetings are a great way to get new people involved. People can have a wider range of experiences than behind the glass at the main metro tracks. Another good way could be hosting business work events. Clubs already do these - the trick is how to convert these casual attendees into people with a lifetime passion for harness racing. 

[what a post 811]

1 hour ago, Fartoomuch said:

Would you care to comment on the success of BGP or Whips and Spurs or do you think they are not successful at getting younger people involved.

I don't know anything about them so can't comment other than to assume they relate to the galloping code.  If they are in the harness code then I have never heard of them.  I assume they are trying to use the same philosophy which I have promoted, focusing on attracting people with similar backgrounds to themselves to join their customer base/group. Good luck to them whoever they may be. 

[We're Doomed 4,866]

Some people above are quite right and others are horribly wrong. The person who suggested more penalty free races should be taken out the back and shot. The biggest problem with harness racing is horses not moving through the grades. Harness people have always been scared to win races as they think they will become uncompetitive and not have opportunities. You need to have better programmes to encourage better class racing and more opportunities for better horses. The few top liners trained by the Purdon chap only contest the big races so you need the equivalent of the regular $35,000 open races that galloping has so the next tier of decent horses have plenty of opportunity. Get rid of the $14,999 races and get out there and be positive, try to win.

[tasman man 11 979]

BGP is a great concept/movement working very well at the Gallops and should be transferable to Harness.

Its an organised group who attend gallops in big numbers , are a big boost to betting numbers and I assume food and beverage as well.

And its not just the odd meeting ,they are becoming more frequent and its sustainable.

A real area of growth. Exciting and a group folk want to belong to.

I doubt they too interested in consistently small fields which Harness serving up more and  more , hence the horse population needs increasing up north.

The handicapping  system needs more thought put into it.it should be like v like.

Folk who say celebrities and music, circus performers and bouncy castle etc will save Harness clearly have not thought it through as those things aren't sustainable ,achievable or affordable.

Harness needs to continue pushing for more owners and possibly club members who find it worthwhile to attend more often.

Alex Park has good facilities overall, a good TAB ,good sports bar and good range of food and can definitely cater for a lot more attendees than now.

Gotta be the off course and overseas betting keeping the head above water currently along with food packages.

 

Edited February 14, 2019 by tasman man 11
Spelling

[JJ Flash 2,135]

6 hours ago, tasman man 11 said:

BGP is a great concept/movement working very well at the Gallops and should be transferable to Harness.

Its an organised group who attend gallops in big numbers , are a big boost to betting numbers and I assume food and beverage as well.

And its not just the odd meeting ,they are becoming more frequent and its sustainable.

A real area of growth. Exciting and a group folk want to belong to.

I doubt they too interested in consistently small fields which Harness serving up more and  more , hence the horse population needs increasing up north.

The handicapping  system needs more thought put into it.it should be like v like.

Folk who say celebrities and music, circus performers and bouncy castle etc will save Harness clearly have not thought it through as those things aren't sustainable ,achievable or affordable.

Harness needs to continue pushing for more owners and possibly club members who find it worthwhile to attend more often.

Alex Park has good facilities overall, a good TAB ,good sports bar and good range of food and can definitely cater for a lot more attendees than now.

Gotta be the off course and overseas betting keeping the head above water currently along with food packages.

 

What a quality post Tasman Man with a local perspective of whats good about Alex Park and what moves could make it better.

Greg

[lamour 673]

10 hours ago, tasman man 11 said:

BGP is a great concept/movement working very well at the Gallops and should be transferable to Harness.

Its an organised group who attend gallops in big numbers , are a big boost to betting numbers and I assume food and beverage as well.

And its not just the odd meeting ,they are becoming more frequent and its sustainable.

A real area of growth. Exciting and a group folk want to belong to.

I doubt they too interested in consistently small fields which Harness serving up more and  more , hence the horse population needs increasing up north.

The handicapping  system needs more thought put into it.it should be like v like.

Folk who say celebrities and music, circus performers and bouncy castle etc will save Harness clearly have not thought it through as those things aren't sustainable ,achievable or affordable.

Harness needs to continue pushing for more owners and possibly club members who find it worthwhile to attend more often.

Alex Park has good facilities overall, a good TAB ,good sports bar and good range of food and can definitely cater for a lot more attendees than now.

Gotta be the off course and overseas betting keeping the head above water currently along with food packages.

 

I hadn’t heard of BGP Tasman but it sounds great.   Are you able to tell us more about it?  What do the initials stand for and how do they attract people to join?

[what a post 811]

There are a lot of ways harness racing could use to promote themselves .

Unfortunately with the advent of all weather tracks located inside grass tracks they have taken away part of the attraction. Why don't tracks like ashburton,timaru,wyndham,nelson ,etc,etc run grass track meetings in the summer. Why cant some meetings have a combination of races on the grass and all weather. 

Why,on suitable tracks  tracks like motukarara (a very good club)do they not have guided tours of  the stabling area after each race with controllable numbers,offering the experience of being able to watch a horse being geared up,being able to touch the equine athletes,speak to a driver,a trainer,,watch one ungeared,washed down,etc etc.  Speak to an owner who can explain the excitement,nerves,expectations pre  or after race.

Each group would obviously have a number limit and have to undergo a brief health and safety run down before entering.  They could be shown the kiddie carts side of things. They could take selfies with horses drivers,trainers gaining exposure via social media.  Then those doing the tours can go into draws to have  rides in the mobile.   Someone could be employed by the club to go round the public to promote such  tours,and be the guide.

There are heaps of things that could be tried. Some may work,some might not . Personally I think harness racing in some areas does not recognize what they can offer which is unique.

[lamour 673]

54 minutes ago, what a post said:

There are a lot of ways harness racing could use to promote themselves .

Unfortunately with the advent of all weather tracks located inside grass tracks they have taken away part of the attraction. Why don't tracks like ashburton,timaru,wyndham,nelson ,etc,etc run grass track meetings in the summer. Why cant some meetings have a combination of races on the grass and all weather. 

Why,on suitable tracks  tracks like motukarara (a very good club)do they not have guided tours of  the stabling area after each race with controllable numbers,offering the experience of being able to watch a horse being geared up,being able to touch the equine athletes,speak to a driver,a trainer,,watch one ungeared,washed down,etc etc.  Speak to an owner who can explain the excitement,nerves,expectations pre  or after race.

Each group would obviously have a number limit and have to undergo a brief health and safety run down before entering.  They could be shown the kiddie carts side of things. They could take selfies with horses drivers,trainers gaining exposure via social media.  Then those doing the tours can go into draws to have  rides in the mobile.   Someone could be employed by the club to go round the public to promote such  tours,and be the guide.

There are heaps of things that could be tried. Some may work,some might not . Personally I think harness racing in some areas does not recognize what they can offer which is unique.

Some great ideas  there What A Post.  I hope Jess Smith reads this thread, she seems go ahead and is just the type to introduce new initiatives.  I Particularly like your idea of showing people around stables.  We need people to connect with the horses and feel they are in the middle of all the action.  All to often changes made in previous years seem to make people more remote from the action and this has come at a serious cost in the long term. 

[Fartoomuch 1,376]

2 hours ago, what a post said:

There are a lot of ways harness racing could use to promote themselves .

Unfortunately with the advent of all weather tracks located inside grass tracks they have taken away part of the attraction. Why don't tracks like ashburton,timaru,wyndham,nelson ,etc,etc run grass track meetings in the summer. Why cant some meetings have a combination of races on the grass and all weather. 

Why,on suitable tracks  tracks like motukarara (a very good club)do they not have guided tours of  the stabling area after each race with controllable numbers,offering the experience of being able to watch a horse being geared up,being able to touch the equine athletes,speak to a driver,a trainer,,watch one ungeared,washed down,etc etc.  Speak to an owner who can explain the excitement,nerves,expectations pre  or after race.

Each group would obviously have a number limit and have to undergo a brief health and safety run down before entering.  They could be shown the kiddie carts side of things. They could take selfies with horses drivers,trainers gaining exposure via social media.  Then those doing the tours can go into draws to have  rides in the mobile.   Someone could be employed by the club to go round the public to promote such  tours,and be the guide.

There are heaps of things that could be tried. Some may work,some might not . Personally I think harness racing in some areas does not recognize what they can offer which is unique.

Very good ideas WAP,  you and others introduce the belief that country grass tracks attract the locals and visitors alike. Most are community based and rely almost solely on volunteer labour who do a great job IMHO.

[Spikecity 749]

2 hours ago, what a post said:

 

Unfortunately with the advent of all weather tracks located inside grass tracks they have taken away part of the attraction. Why don't tracks like ashburton,timaru,wyndham,nelson ,etc,etc run grass track meetings in the summer. Why cant some meetings have a combination of races on the grass and all weather. 

 

Shatin in Hong Kong does this to good effect - some races on the grass and some on the dirt track

[tasman man 11 979]

4 hours ago, lamour said:

I hadn’t heard of BGP Tasman but it sounds great.   Are you able to tell us more about it?  What do the initials stand for and how do they attract people to join?

Its the Boys Get Paid 'group' that have been very noticeable at Northern gallops meetings ,landing some big bets and having fun.

There is a thread about them in the Gallops section.

There is a website ,and I hadn't joined in the fun thinking I was too old but from what Ive read ,maybe not !

Recently they caused a bit of stir by asking about a rebate for their betting to put toward other initiatives.

it sounds exciting !

[Rusty 575]

25 minute intervals between races would definitely help the on-course experience, from a spectator's perspective. Especially during the cooler months. It has been trialled in the past and there were more positive comments than negative. However, the Aussie's would more than likely frown upon it, and would want NZ start times to work around their scheduling. 

[Rusty 575]

8 hours ago, tasman man 11 said:

Its the Boys Get Paid 'group' that have been very noticeable at Northern gallops meetings ,landing some big bets and having fun.

There is a thread about them in the Gallops section.

There is a website ,and I hadn't joined in the fun thinking I was too old but from what Ive read ,maybe not !

Recently they caused a bit of stir by asking about a rebate for their betting to put toward other initiatives.

it sounds exciting !

Fully recommend the BGP (Boys Get Paid) website, Facebook group etc. 

Noone would ever be considered "too old" to join. Although they don't just let anyone join in via Facebook.

I recall the BGP "leader", Luke, having his photo taken with an old boy a few years ago. If I recall the story correctly he said the gentleman would often frequent the racecourse with his good mate, they would have a beer, a bet and a yarn. Unfortunately the chap's friend passed away and he had noone to go to the races with anymore. Upon hearing the man's story, Luke took him under his wing, had a beer with him and exchanged a few stories. All part and parcel of the BGP family really. The other thing too, with the BGP is that there is very little negativity. It's positive, positive, positive, and heaps of energy behind the movement. 

You get a lot of tips and a bit of good oil on occasions too. Not just limited to the racing game either. Although mainly dominated by the thoroughbred code, harness does get good coverage and the BGP hit the Cambridge Jewels pretty hard. 

Go the lads. 

[We're Doomed 4,866]

I must admit Harness Racing does confuse me with its class structure. At Winton today all of the maiden races are worth around about the $12,000 mark, whereas a race with several winners in it is worth only $8,000. All of the races with winners in them seem to be worth no more than $10,000, mostly less. Is this some sort of novelty gimmick just for today, or is it a common approach. I think one of harness racing's biggest problems is the lack of incentive or willingness for horses to go through the grades.

[Newmarket RC 209]

Get rid of the amateurs who dont know or dont abide by current HRNZ rules. Heres 2 examples from Sundays meeting at that place beginning with Waiko

 

"

Race 5	M Howard (FOR THE KITTY) [Rule 869 (2) & Whip Regs (b)] - Used whip outside of Regulations. Fined $500.
	Race 7	T Grant (RACHMANINOV) [Rule 849(2)] - Failed to affix the correct saddlecloth. Fined $100.

 

The whip rules have been around for ages and he blatantly took no notice of them whilst how hard is it to put your correct number on.

[what a post 811]

1 hour ago, Newmarket RC said:

Get rid of the amateurs who dont know or dont abide by current HRNZ rules. Heres 2 examples from Sundays meeting at that place beginning with Waiko

 

"

Race 5	M Howard (FOR THE KITTY) [Rule 869 (2) & Whip Regs (b)] - Used whip outside of Regulations. Fined $500.
	Race 7	T Grant (RACHMANINOV) [Rule 849(2)] - Failed to affix the correct saddlecloth. Fined $100.

 

The whip rules have been around for ages and he blatantly took no notice of them whilst how hard is it to put your correct number on.

What about ricky may who was recently suspended for excess use of the whip.  Or  Purdon/Rasmussen and M Edmonds  who were fined for having the wrong saddlecloths on 1 febuary. Do you want to get rid of those amateurs as well?

[Taku Umanga 194]

1 hour ago, Newmarket RC said:

Get rid of the amateurs who dont know or dont abide by current HRNZ rules. Heres 2 examples from Sundays meeting at that place beginning with Waiko

 

"

Race 5	M Howard (FOR THE KITTY) [Rule 869 (2) & Whip Regs (b)] - Used whip outside of Regulations. Fined $500.
	Race 7	T Grant (RACHMANINOV) [Rule 849(2)] - Failed to affix the correct saddlecloth. Fined $100.

 

The whip rules have been around for ages and he blatantly took no notice of them whilst how hard is it to put your correct number on.

 

Yep - bloody amateurs! 

Race 4

M Purdon & N Rasmussen (FLYING EVEN BETTOR & VIRGIL) [Rule 849(2)] - Presented stable runners with incorrect saddlecloth numbers. Fined $100.

[eljay 1,720]

Mr Umanga - the Board with the backing of the clubs are trying to up the intelligence level in the sport and their first attempt has to supply numbers (and saddlecloths) that need a degree to get them right.    You may have noticed that the cloth ones fold over a bit and with the horses gear can make it very difficult to make out exactly what number the horse is actually carrying.     This is also not helped with numbers such as 6 and if inverted 9, and 1 with extended top to digit and 7, 5's & 8's & 3's can also be confused by some of the gear.     Anyway it doesn't affect the punter because they don't get fined for taking the wrong number.

[Fartoomuch 1,376]

18 hours ago, what a post said:

What about ricky may who was recently suspended for excess use of the whip.  Or  Purdon/Rasmussen and M Edmonds  who were fined for having the wrong saddlecloths on 1 febuary. Do you want to get rid of those amateurs as well?

Same rules for everyone wap

Wonder if those mentioned  repeat their transgressions  at today's meeting.