LightsOut

The first 3 weeks racing turnover figures under the new Betting Platform

29 posts in this topic

Make sure your sitting down to read on.,

First week - $27.014m vs $31.382m last year

 Second week - $31.990m vs $35.075m last year (helped this year by 200k of BGP money

Third week - $30.614m vs $33.596m

So around $10,000,000 down in racing turnover in the first three weeks an average of just over $3,300,000 a week multiply that by 52 weeks = $175,000,000 down.

The Betting Platform was sold to the Racing Industry on the basis that it would pay for itself in three years due to how much more turnover it would bring in. By God it's going to lose the Industry tens of millions plus the cost of tens of million to build it plus $17,000,000 to pay in fees to Paddy Power & Openbet plus the millions to service the loan the Industry had to take to pay for it. And I thought the Nigerians were good extracting money on promised dreams.

Industry told it pays for itself in three years by:

1. Doubling customers (not happening). Retain what they had last year and it will be amazing plus now a full season of no Australians able to bet into NZ)

2. All the 1,000's of more betting options would increase turnover (not happening).  Over 100 more race meetings in the first three weeks equate that to the number of race betting options and turnover down by millions. Figures look far worse if you equate them to actual number of races over the three weeks compared to last year.  

3. Stop arbitraging (that was an odd one odds are only as good as what goes into the system, few of my mates last three weeks have got on sports games that have moved overseas but not on the NZ market so I don't believe that line.    

4. Race Field Fees (not happening this season)

Word is that the Sports betting yield is miles behind compared to the same period as last year which is no surprise when you get told by a couple of customers they betting on sporting matches in play and making thousands because whoever was trading was doing so to delayed coverage (like backing a horse when it's past the post). Who needs to arbitrage when you know you can't lose.Yes I don't blame you,  you just double checked you were in fact reading Race Cafe and not a Fantasy novel.  

Deloittes in the report commissioned by NZTR that a Betting Platform costing the Industry $30m (not $50m) wasn't sustainable in such a small market warranted the expense of it and they were unfortunately 1000% correct. At least the NZTR appointed Board Member had his vote recorded as against signing the Betting Platform agreement.

If anyone from NZRB in the media states how good the new Betting Platform is performing for the NZ Racing Industry and the NZRB's revenue they should be sacked on the spot as should whoever put the agreement in place for the Board to sign.

Looking at which tracks to close should go on hold as there might be a bulk deal coming soon.

If you can't read between the lines above I will put it in simple plain and simple English in just a few words "The NZ Racing was stuffed but is now totally f#@%#ed.        

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I detect a hint of pessimism

pessimism definitionemphasizing or thinking of the bad part of a situation rather than the good part, or the feeling that bad things are more likely to happen

 

hint definitiona slight or indirect indication or suggestion

Correct on the first word but not the 2nd

pessimism = 100%

hint = 0%

Unfortunately figures don't lie

 

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7 hours ago, LightsOut said:

Make sure your sitting down to read on.,

First week - $27.014m vs $31.382m last year

 Second week - $31.990m vs $35.075m last year (helped this year by 200k of BGP money

Third week - $30.614m vs $33.596m

So around $10,000,000 down in racing turnover in the first three weeks an average of just over $3,300,000 a week multiply that by 52 weeks = $175,000,000 down.

The Betting Platform was sold to the Racing Industry on the basis that it would pay for itself in three years due to how much more turnover it would bring in. By God it's going to lose the Industry tens of millions plus the cost of tens of million to build it plus $17,000,000 to pay in fees to Paddy Power & Openbet plus the millions to service the loan the Industry had to take to pay for it. And I thought the Nigerians were good extracting money on promised dreams.

Industry told it pays for itself in three years by:

1. Doubling customers (not happening). Retain what they had last year and it will be amazing plus now a full season of no Australians able to bet into NZ)

2. All the 1,000's of more betting options would increase turnover (not happening).  Over 100 more race meetings in the first three weeks equate that to the number of race betting options and turnover down by millions. Figures look far worse if you equate them to actual number of races over the three weeks compared to last year.  

3. Stop arbitraging (that was an odd one odds are only as good as what goes into the system, few of my mates last three weeks have got on sports games that have moved overseas but not on the NZ market so I don't believe that line.    

4. Race Field Fees (not happening this season)

Word is that the Sports betting yield is miles behind compared to the same period as last year which is no surprise when you get told by a couple of customers they betting on sporting matches in play and making thousands because whoever was trading was doing so to delayed coverage (like backing a horse when it's past the post). Who needs to arbitrage when you know you can't lose.Yes I don't blame you,  you just double checked you were in fact reading Race Cafe and not a Fantasy novel.  

Deloittes in the report commissioned by NZTR that a Betting Platform costing the Industry $30m (not $50m) wasn't sustainable in such a small market warranted the expense of it and they were unfortunately 1000% correct. At least the NZTR appointed Board Member had his vote recorded as against signing the Betting Platform agreement.

If anyone from NZRB in the media states how good the new Betting Platform is performing for the NZ Racing Industry and the NZRB's revenue they should be sacked on the spot as should whoever put the agreement in place for the Board to sign.

Looking at which tracks to close should go on hold as there might be a bulk deal coming soon.

If you can't read between the lines above I will put it in simple plain and simple English in just a few words "The NZ Racing was stuffed but is now totally f#@%#ed.        

Your headline , racing turnover figures . 

A question , are these figures just racing or do the figures you quote include sports betting as well ? .

Perhaps you have partly explained some of the decline , ''now a full season of no Australians able to bet into NZ'' ,  anyway give it more time , I'm still waiting for the expanded form to appear when I click on expanded form .

As for racing being stuffed you are right unless drastic action taken , most of us are to old and are content just  riding it to the bottom , where will the majority of racing participants be in 10 years time , playing bowls at the retirement villages if we are lucky , 5/10 year plans are not much use to most of us , that's the reality ..

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The answer tripple alliance is -

So around $10,000,000 down in racing turnover in the first three weeks an average of just over $3,300,000 a week multiply that by 52 weeks = $175,000,000 down. 

Answer according to Lightsout - RACING TURNOVER

 

 

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Have you got the figures for the 2-3 weeks before the new platform roll out compared to the previous year?   

Be interested to see if the decrease is directly related to the new platform, or just a downward trend in racing turnover in general.    

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Have you got the figures for the 2-3 weeks before the new platform roll out compared to the previous year?   

Be interested to see if the decrease is directly related to the new platform, or just a downward trend in racing turnover in general. 

Very good point premixer I will come back to you on that. If its a general trend then that first week with the new Platform down 16% and 40 more meetings having been taken along with the extra turnover and revenue added that the new Platform was sold on as creating then the Industry is well,  unfortunately I don't need to tell you as you will have worked it out. The turnover figures posted didn't include Sports betting so it may well be a lot worse than it actually is when everything is combined. 

Deloittes had no crystal ball just facts and figures which sadly is proving spot on as to their paid advice given to NZTR on the Betting Platform costs.One could say commenting such as the above is been negative but I like to think its been realistic and having your head out of the sand when everything is considered. Deloittes said at $30m (not 50m) that the Racing Industry couldn't sustain the cost, while the Industry was sold on it that it would pay for itself in 3 years but no mention was made where the $51m was coming from over those 3 years to pay for Paddy Powers & Open Bet fees and expenses to service it. If Deloittes said in their recommendation no to a  $30m project how the hell is the Industry going to fund the cost of $101m over the next three years plus millions more in bank interest fees to pay for it. 

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premixer i now wish that you hadn't asked for the compared figures as it's more depressing that I thought it would be. Have the headache pills on standby to take once you have finished reading the figures.

Figures include total NZ and overseas racing turnover (fixed & tote) for all codes

2017  1st August to 31st December 2017 turnover = $766.21m on 34,027 races

2018 1st August to 31st December 2018 turnover = $743.607m on 40,432 races

In 5 months this season 6,000 more races taken and $22,000,000 down in turnover with still 7 months of the racing season to go. So in 22 weeks 1st August to 31st December down $22,000,000 which equates to $1,000,000 a week. Remember the Platform was sold to the Industry on the basis that the 1,000's of new betting options that would be made available would increase turnover. It's not happening as the figures show. No wonder they are taking every possible race eg USA, UK, Timbuktu, and Tokyo they can to boost turnover

premixer in reply to your query re the first 3 weeks compared to same period last year for the new Betting Platform .

2019 -  3 week period prior to the new web site $119,930,191

2018 - the same period 3 week period  $122,204,000

So this year 3 weeks prior to the Platform is $2,268,000 less or $756,000 per week.

Into 3 weeks of the Bet Platform launch and with 19% more races this year compared to last year down 10% in turnover compared to 2.5% down in the 3 weeks prior to the launch. So in financial returns the new Betting Platform has seen that decline increase to $3,000,000 a week. In simple terms the new Betting Platform has sped up the decline in NZRB racing turnover.    

Get Deloittes to do an update on what the Betting Platform is contributing now verse previously and their thoughts on it all. Shouldn't cost much to do as only requires one page. 

With the above figures and the development cost of the Platform to be paid for along  with $17,000,000 a year to service it by Open Bet and Paddy Power and the millions in interest on the loans to pay for it I can't paint any clearer picture for the final outcome which was endorsed by Deloittes.

These figures don't even allow for what yield returns sports and racing bookmaking is returning this season compared to last. I don't have access to sports turnover figures but it's highly unlikely that there has been an increase to offset the higher margin racing products.

 The Racing Minister needs to act now as a Company leaking millions a week instead of making millions it was sold on as doing is only ending up in one place. The false promises haven't eventuated its that close to having a statutory manager needed in the NZRB right now not in months. Winston do what a Minister is voted into do' Act now". Time isn't running out it has already done that. 

 

  

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I’m sure they aren’t over run at the TAB HQ today so if you’d like to stimulate some interest on The Awapuni races tomorrow why don’t you get some FF prices out?

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48 minutes ago, puha said:

I’m sure they aren’t over run at the TAB HQ today so if you’d like to stimulate some interest on The Awapuni races tomorrow why don’t you get some FF prices out?

 

The fixed odds have been coming out at the same for a long time. Mid week meetings open 4.30 the day before. 

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Usually 4.pm by my reckoning so 4.20 pm is not bad by this new sites standsrds plus it’s not a mid week meeting it’s Saturday meeting run on a Friday.From memeory it’s so we don’t have three major meetings on Saturday.

 

 

 

 

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On 2/6/2019 at 10:10 AM, LightsOut said:

Make sure your sitting down to read on.,

First week - $27.014m vs $31.382m last year

 Second week - $31.990m vs $35.075m last year (helped this year by 200k of BGP money

Third week - $30.614m vs $33.596m

So around $10,000,000 down in racing turnover in the first three weeks an average of just over $3,300,000 a week multiply that by 52 weeks = $175,000,000 down.

The Betting Platform was sold to the Racing Industry on the basis that it would pay for itself in three years due to how much more turnover it would bring in. By God it's going to lose the Industry tens of millions plus the cost of tens of million to build it plus $17,000,000 to pay in fees to Paddy Power & Openbet plus the millions to service the loan the Industry had to take to pay for it. And I thought the Nigerians were good extracting money on promised dreams.

Industry told it pays for itself in three years by:

1. Doubling customers (not happening). Retain what they had last year and it will be amazing plus now a full season of no Australians able to bet into NZ)

2. All the 1,000's of more betting options would increase turnover (not happening).  Over 100 more race meetings in the first three weeks equate that to the number of race betting options and turnover down by millions. Figures look far worse if you equate them to actual number of races over the three weeks compared to last year.  

3. Stop arbitraging (that was an odd one odds are only as good as what goes into the system, few of my mates last three weeks have got on sports games that have moved overseas but not on the NZ market so I don't believe that line.    

4. Race Field Fees (not happening this season)

Word is that the Sports betting yield is miles behind compared to the same period as last year which is no surprise when you get told by a couple of customers they betting on sporting matches in play and making thousands because whoever was trading was doing so to delayed coverage (like backing a horse when it's past the post). Who needs to arbitrage when you know you can't lose.Yes I don't blame you,  you just double checked you were in fact reading Race Cafe and not a Fantasy novel.  

Deloittes in the report commissioned by NZTR that a Betting Platform costing the Industry $30m (not $50m) wasn't sustainable in such a small market warranted the expense of it and they were unfortunately 1000% correct. At least the NZTR appointed Board Member had his vote recorded as against signing the Betting Platform agreement.

If anyone from NZRB in the media states how good the new Betting Platform is performing for the NZ Racing Industry and the NZRB's revenue they should be sacked on the spot as should whoever put the agreement in place for the Board to sign.

Looking at which tracks to close should go on hold as there might be a bulk deal coming soon.

If you can't read between the lines above I will put it in simple plain and simple English in just a few words "The NZ Racing was stuffed but is now totally f#@%#ed.        

Pretty ordinary to say the least. Where are you getting these figures? Didn’t think they were published to the public until the half year results and then the annual report? 

What has sports done? You’d hope some of the money has gone there like it is over here and and probably a greater rate now with old DK etc bring the game into disrepute. 

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10 hours ago, Fredd002 said:

The answer tripple alliance is -

So around $10,000,000 down in racing turnover in the first three weeks an average of just over $3,300,000 a week multiply that by 52 weeks = $175,000,000 down. 

Answer according to Lightsout - RACING TURNOVER

 

 

OK let's accept it's just racing turnover which means these figures only part of the big picture and possibly meaningless , for all we know the shortfall in racing turnover may have been made up with increases in sports betting , we live in hope .  

One things for sure when the bulk of your  customers are in the older generation many of them will find change difficult to handle  so some backlash should be expected , let's hope the younger ones are getting on board with sports betting , that's the big hope .

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1 hour ago, tripple alliance said:

OK let's accept it's just racing turnover which means these figures only part of the big picture and possibly meaningless , for all we know the shortfall in racing turnover may have been made up with increases in sports betting , we live in hope .  

One things for sure when the bulk of your  customers are in the older generation many of them will find change difficult to handle  so some backlash should be expected , let's hope the younger ones are getting on board with sports betting , that's the big hope .

Hopefully you are right.

Have a look at stuff and see the outrage about Cadbury changing the size of a chocolate bar, says a lot about the NZ public mindset that we would be far more upset about that than gifting $100m to marginal use land.

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pakari - Pretty ordinary to say the least. Where are you getting these figures? Didn’t think they were published to the public until the half year results and then the annual report? 

What has sports done? You’d hope some of the money has gone there like it is over here and and probably a greater rate now with old DK etc bring the game into disrepute.

I got the figures from James Cameron new movie script 'Titanic 2'

The turnover figures are weekly ones,  the 6 and 12 month figures will reflect the total weeks for those periods. One would hope a lot more than myself are able to access turnover figures which once upon a time were published to the public on a weekly basis. NZRB say they are transparent unfortunately they don't appear to be as much so as what they were in the past.  

I think its very obvious when you look at the number of racing options this season compared to last season in the 3 week period but its well down so do you honestly think adding a huge number of options to sports betting will increase turnover?

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35 minutes ago, LightsOut said:

I got the figures from James Cameron new movie script 'Titanic 2'

The turnover figures are weekly ones,  the 6 and 12 month figures will reflect the total weeks for those periods. One would hope a lot more than myself are able to access turnover figures which once upon a time were published to the public on a weekly basis. NZRB say they are transparent unfortunately they don't appear to be as much so as what they were in the past.  

I think its very obvious when you look at the number of racing options this season compared to last season in the 3 week period but its well down so do you honestly think adding a huge number of options to sports betting will increase turnover?

In terms of sports betting, I went to bet on a basket ball game I was going to watch. There was 177 options to try and sift through to find what I wanted so I gave up. Granted they did need more options but I think they have gone to far the other way. 

Last night I also went to place a live bet, same problem as in the past odds suspended or can’t get my bet on due to the odds changing between the same two figures over and over again. I got sick of waiting 8 seconds over and over again only to be told the odds had changed so I gave up. 

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Have you got the figures for the 2-3 weeks before the new platform roll out compared to the previous year?   

Be interested to see if the decrease is directly related to the new platform, or just a downward trend in racing turnover in general. 

You are joking 170 betting options on a single basketball game, how the hell are they going to track each market, no wonder they lost money on a game getting traded to delayed coverage.

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15 minutes ago, LightsOut said:

You are joking 170 betting options on a single basketball game, how the hell are they going to track each market, no wonder they lost money on a game getting traded to delayed coverage.

Sadly no I’m not. There 150 plus options on most NBA games and even 30ish on college games. 

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On 2/24/2019 at 12:52 PM, hedley said:

Another fault is their failure to notify how much stakemoney is being raced for in each race.

Hedley, it is there. Just a matter of finding it.

What I do is 1. Click on Thoroughbreds (or Harness or Greyhounds) 2. In a line above you will see MORE. Click on that and then 3. Click on PDF Form. Then 4.  click on the Mini Form of your meeting.

This brings up an Index (very useful) and a list of the races with the stakemoney. Stay there and go through each race. Formline comments etc including breakdown of stakemoney.

There may be quicker ways but that takes only 20 seconds once you are familiar with it.

Cheers

 

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