chevy86

Sales Washup

94 posts in this topic

The odds are certainly stacked against me ! :rcf-laughing-2:
But I just love the game and never been in a position before to race one! :wub:
I've done well with the dish lickers in the past...but I'm trying to be a big boy now! :rcf-tongue-2:

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21 minutes ago, Baz (NZ) said:

The odds are certainly stacked against me ! :rcf-laughing-2:
But I just love the game and never been in a position before to race one! :wub:
I've done well with the dish lickers in the past...but I'm trying to be a big boy now! :rcf-tongue-2:

Baz, with owners  goggles on they are all good until they hit the track!!:rcf-wink:

Good luck with the filly mate

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1 minute ago, Swoopa said:

Baz, with owners  goggles on they are all good until they hit the track!!:rcf-wink:

Good luck with the filly mate

I know this too well Swoopa! My feet are cemented firmly on the ground! Just like fireworks...:rcf-rich: up in smoke ! :rcf-laughing-2:

This was me today......:rcf-in-love::rcf-in-love::rcf-in-love:

This will be me raceday.....:rcf-poo::rcf-monkey::rcf-sad-12:

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6 minutes ago, Swoopa said:

Just checked results today and see there were some heavy casualties on the battle field!! (Ouch )

Shhh....I'm on gavelhouse waiting for the next auction to start ! :rcf-laughing-2:

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re Charm Spirit. His UK/European crop have just turned 3 - so they haven't raced at 3 yet. He had a very high number of runners (74) from the 106 foals in Europe as 2 year olds.

A good number of winners (26) but yes only one stakes winner.

Its just too early to say with this guy yet (the same as Sacred Falls). Don't right CS off if his 2 year olds are average here though. European 2 year old races over 1400-1600 are very different from 1000-1200m speed races in Aussie on hard tracks. As mentioned he was out of a Montjeu mare.

If I was offered one out of a really good mare I would have a crack

Cheers, Matt

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I see I am being ridiculed elsewhere for my stance on this matter...if we are to encourage meaningful debate and get industry leaders involved in contributing to the discussions then there needs to be clear boundaries ... and not just allow hearsay and rumours...I have always had a policy of if you cant prove it don't post it...I will not change that principle...or the limited amount of moderation we have here...it keeps the site running smoothly without infighting and decent.

I hope that members will continue to enjoy the site and the platform it provides...Leigh

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26 minutes ago, scooby3051 said:

I see I am being ridiculed elsewhere for my stance on this matter...if we are to encourage meaningful debate and get industry leaders involved in contributing to the discussions then there needs to be clear boundaries ... and not just allow hearsay and rumours...I have always had a policy of if you cant prove it don't post it...I will not change that principle...or the limited amount of moderation we have here...it keeps the site running smoothly without infighting and decent.

I hope that members will continue to enjoy the site and the platform it provides...Leigh

Ignore those clowns Scooby...the site is working just fine as it is......:rcfe-like:

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On 2/3/2019 at 9:43 PM, scooby3051 said:

Baz looked out for you today but you never come up to say hi....:rcf-sad-10:....it was a tough day at the office for sellers thats for sure.

Heard a few knocked down to you Scooby but you do not seem to be mentioned in the results. Bit of a phantom eh? Buying for your entourage I suspect? Truly was a Shakespearian Tragedy for vendors and has me on the threshold of not breeding any more but big ups to those who relieved distressed sellers of their stock and I wish the purchasers all the best with their altruism.

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12 minutes ago, chevy86 said:

Heard a few knocked down to you Scooby but you do not seem to be mentioned in the results. Bit of a phantom eh? Buying for your entourage I suspect? Truly was a Shakespearian Tragedy for vendors and has me on the threshold of not breeding any more but big ups to those who relieved distressed sellers of their stock and I wish the purchasers all the best with their altruism.

No we bought 4 actually...:rcfe-like:

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On 2/5/2019 at 9:36 AM, Mattski said:

re Charm Spirit. His UK/European crop have just turned 3 - so they haven't raced at 3 yet. He had a very high number of runners (74) from the 106 foals in Europe as 2 year olds.

A good number of winners (26) but yes only one stakes winner.

Its just too early to say with this guy yet (the same as Sacred Falls). Don't right CS off if his 2 year olds are average here though. European 2 year old races over 1400-1600 are very different from 1000-1200m speed races in Aussie on hard tracks. As mentioned he was out of a Montjeu mare.

If I was offered one out of a really good mare I would have a crack

Cheers, Matt

Will be interested to see how Lilikoi goes at Te Aroha today. Nice trial recently.

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I read where another group of Kiwis are setting up a stallions syndicate ( Lib Patenga, Waikato Stud , Windsor Park and few other individuals). Bruce Perry bought a Brazen Beau yesterday in Sydney for A$500k to go with an I Am Invincible he bought at Karaka. Good luck to them !

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1 hour ago, Breeder said:

I read where another group of Kiwis are setting up a stallions syndicate ( Lib Patenga, Waikato Stud , Windsor Park and few other individuals). Bruce Perry bought a Brazen Beau yesterday in Sydney for A$500k to go with an I Am Invincible he bought at Karaka. Good luck to them !

Speed, speed and more speed.....who can blame them, it’s what the market wants....but is it what the great days of NZ Racing were built on ?

Personally I’d far sooner race or breed stayers ( and before someone attacks me on my yearling purchases, they were just RTR turnovers )

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Agree Poundforpound ---effectively competing directly with the Aussies. Not sure that is a good strategy but it is their money, who am I to argue with the move.

Another thing I read earlier is there is a rumour floating around that they may move the Melbourne Premier sale to the end of January --directly competing with Karaka.

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7 hours ago, Ohokaman said:

Will be interested to see how Lilikoi goes at Te Aroha today. Nice trial recently.

Others may see it differently but for me she never really fired a shot. Never backed her.

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1 hour ago, Blue said:

Others may see it differently but for me she never really fired a shot. Never backed her.

True Blue. Pretty disappointing on face value...backed off the map so they expected something.

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14 minutes ago, Ohokaman said:

True Blue. Pretty disappointing on face value...backed off the map so they expected something.

Did you read in racing post Moonlight Magic retired to stud , sold to India . Closely related to Galileo . Only had that one run in Oz for Cummings but finished lame , high level of European form. Wonder what sort of money he went for , a real blueblood with Derby and Arc connections aplenty.

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The sales were an unmitigated disaster for the industry as a whole. It is 4 years from now that is the real problem. Another 10-14% drop in foals on the ground see us move closer to the Germany/ Italy/ Spain and Ireland before the zero tax scenario. Germany is on notice for its group ones and Italy and Spain have lost their Group ones. Numbers have crashed, fewer runners/ decrease in betting/ racing industry runs out of options. Aussie trainers give up coming to NZ because they can't syndicate NZ horses because they can't win group ones in Aussie when they race in Aussie. Means that the NZ thoroughbred devalues further and then we have collapse.

Industry's answer is to secure average speed class for stallions, no importation to talk of in respect of top class broodmare lines (especially UK/ Europe - their form can be franked) left the staying concept at the alter, NZTR responsible for the demise of staying races, not even any 1400/ 1600m races for two year olds/ tracks can't be raced on because surfaces are unsafe. Satying races and programs are the future. Why don't people see this?

Guys like Jackson get Saundry on board without board consultation and Jackson has shown he can't manage a piss up in a brewery. Also imported Bayliss to the same failure model. He should be shown the door. Hopefully the designated team does away with the bullshit structure of the current racing bureaucracies. It's time over due. Too much dead and dying wood.

FOB isn't working well. Can't understand why anyone would say it is. Yes OK for sports betting but hopeless for racing. Can't white label it - can't affiliate plan it - can't API it without $5-8m to spend. Hopeless because they don't know what I am talking about.

The sublime has turned into the ridiculous. Time to create an environment for change.

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4 minutes ago, Berri said:

The sales were an unmitigated disaster for the industry as a whole. It is 4 years from now that is the real problem. Another 10-14% drop in foals on the ground see us move closer to the Germany/ Italy/ Spain and Ireland before the zero tax scenario. Germany is on notice for its group ones and Italy and Spain have lost their Group ones. Numbers have crashed, fewer runners/ decrease in betting/ racing industry runs out of options. Aussie trainers give up coming to NZ because they can't syndicate NZ horses because they can't win group ones in Aussie when they race in Aussie. Means that the NZ thoroughbred devalues further and then we have collapse.

Industry's answer is to secure average speed class for stallions, no importation to talk of in respect of top class broodmare lines (especially UK/ Europe - their form can be franked) left the staying concept at the alter, NZTR responsible for the demise of staying races, not even any 1400/ 1600m races for two year olds/ tracks can't be raced on because surfaces are unsafe. Satying races and programs are the future. Why don't people see this?

Guys like Jackson get Saundry on board without board consultation and Jackson has shown he can't manage a piss up in a brewery. Also imported Bayliss to the same failure model. He should be shown the door. Hopefully the designated team does away with the bullshit structure of the current racing bureaucracies. It's time over due. Too much dead and dying wood.

FOB isn't working well. Can't understand why anyone would say it is. Yes OK for sports betting but hopeless for racing. Can't white label it - can't affiliate plan it - can't API it without $5-8m to spend. Hopeless because they don't know what I am talking about.

The sublime has turned into the ridiculous. Time to create an environment for change.

Very few European mares get imported here it seems , Ballymacoll had a complete dispersal last year or might have been year before and Juddmonte  sell off plenty of stock at various auctions each year , if NZ want to upgrade staying blood those are they the places they should be looking ?  Japanese did so  for years hovering up European bloodlines .Most stayers here at the moment  wouldn't get within 10 lengths of the Champion bumper winner at Cheltenham Festival imho 

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12 hours ago, Red Rum said:

Very few European mares get imported here it seems , Ballymacoll had a complete dispersal last year or might have been year before and Juddmonte  sell off plenty of stock at various auctions each year , if NZ want to upgrade staying blood those are they the places they should be looking ?  Japanese did so  for years hovering up European bloodlines .Most stayers here at the moment  wouldn't get within 10 lengths of the Champion bumper winner at Cheltenham Festival imho 

Few fabrications in there fella.

Firstly the Japanese upgraded with Sunday Silence because the Americans didn’t want him, then they bought all the English classic horses that weren’t wanted up there.

Now your point about Cheltenham bumpers, that’s a definite “fuck off”.

I’ve ridden the best of my time in NZ, and the equivalent in the UK, a lot from Ballymacoll actually ( including the mighty Troy ) and their handicappers are inferior to ours because of their actions and the fact they’re trained uphill ( that’s to do with selection and survival, ask me about Danehill on that matter )

Their British G1 2000m - 2400m horses are miles better than our current lot though 

IMO your best stayers handicaps up there are the Cesarewitch and the Ebor....and the form out of those races is typically well below Melbourne Cup standard ( although the mug punters and silly journos fall for Ebor form every year )

To be effective in the MC you pretty much need NH group or classic form, and a bit of a turn of foot.

Those Ebor / Chester Cup / Cesarewitch types aren’t really suited to down here with their high knee grinding actions 

I know you’ll find an exception to the above, but I’m speaking generally, and whilst I can cop a bit of criticism of NZ I think you should back your dismissive denigration up with facts, not just opinions 

I’ll conclude with the Japanese form, only my theory but I think they’ve ended up with a breed of good horses with good actions because they race on hard ground, and Darwin means the high knee round actioned types can’t cope. 

In addition the Japs embrace technology so they can measure variables that improve the breed, we don’t measure anything except precocity and speed, and thus we can’t improve our stayers as a breed and hands we’re sliding into oblivion 

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13 hours ago, Berri said:

The sales were an unmitigated disaster for the industry as a whole. It is 4 years from now that is the real problem. Another 10-14% drop in foals on the ground see us move closer to the Germany/ Italy/ Spain and Ireland before the zero tax scenario. Germany is on notice for its group ones and Italy and Spain have lost their Group ones. Numbers have crashed, fewer runners/ decrease in betting/ racing industry runs out of options. Aussie trainers give up coming to NZ because they can't syndicate NZ horses because they can't win group ones in Aussie when they race in Aussie. Means that the NZ thoroughbred devalues further and then we have collapse.

Industry's answer is to secure average speed class for stallions, no importation to talk of in respect of top class broodmare lines (especially UK/ Europe - their form can be franked) left the staying concept at the alter, NZTR responsible for the demise of staying races, not even any 1400/ 1600m races for two year olds/ tracks can't be raced on because surfaces are unsafe. Satying races and programs are the future. Why don't people see this?

Guys like Jackson get Saundry on board without board consultation and Jackson has shown he can't manage a piss up in a brewery. Also imported Bayliss to the same failure model. He should be shown the door. Hopefully the designated team does away with the bullshit structure of the current racing bureaucracies. It's time over due. Too much dead and dying wood.

FOB isn't working well. Can't understand why anyone would say it is. Yes OK for sports betting but hopeless for racing. Can't white label it - can't affiliate plan it - can't API it without $5-8m to spend. Hopeless because they don't know what I am talking about.

The sublime has turned into the ridiculous. Time to create an environment for change.

I'm inclined to want to say you are sounding very negative, but sadly I do find myself agreeing with most of what you say.  The demise of staying races in this country is very sad. They couldn't even get a $35,000 staying race off the ground at Riccarton last week. (It did surprise me a couple of trainers didn't pop in a couple of maidens just so six horses or so could race around and collect $35,000 for all of their connections, but that is another subject). We just don't seem to have stayers coming through the grades, and there isn't the excitement when a new-comer steps up to open grade. The saddest thing is that I can't see any sign that anyone recognises this problem and is doing anything about it. There is no sign of new races, changed programmes, boosted stakes, incentives; nothing to indicate that anyone recognises we have a problem.

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