RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
fermoy

Karaka on TV?

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12 hours ago, Stables said:

Under the rules of the sale, unfortunately the vendor loses because he has to pay NZ Bloodstock a 10% fee on the passed in value. So NZ Bloodstock still get the same money as they would have if the horse had been sold

Great marketing ploy isn't it. Push up the bid just short of the reserve then charge the owner for passing it in. Auctioneer is starting most at $30k otherwise there possibly wouldn't be one bid on some therefore owner would pay no commission or do they charge commission on the reserve regardless?

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Amazing. Suddenly they are starting to call the last bids before "passing in" as "vendor's bids".eg Lots 443 and 446 last bids both 190k (reserve obviously 200K). I guess calling the last bid as such "cleans up the process" and negates the authenticity of any previous bids.

OR--maybe the Commerce Commission follows Race Cafe and somebody has made a call to Karaka!

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7 hours ago, gubellini said:

Book 1- Yearlings bred for the Sale Ring.

Books 2 and 3- Yearlings bred for the racecourse. 

A significant percentage of these Book I “blue bloods” will not see a racecourse let alone win decent races.

Interesting you say that. Have you ever taken the time to look back over what TE Akau have brought the last few years and how well the horses have done or havent done.  I looked at 2015 for inteest and ownly looked at the syndicate horses. Total of 9 horses paid a figure of 2.46 million. So far they have earnt 531865. That includes Heroic Valopur in that and it earned 377355. Of those 9 horses 4 are inactive an 800000 purchase didnt even race. So when you look at that there is a hugh loss especially once you take into account the insurance training fees.

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2 hours ago, chevy86 said:

Amazing. Suddenly they are starting to call the last bids before "passing in" as "vendor's bids".eg Lots 443 and 446 last bids both 190k (reserve obviously 200K). I guess calling the last bid as such "cleans up the process" and negates the authenticity of any previous bids.

OR--maybe the Commerce Commission follows Race Cafe and somebody has made a call to Karaka!

I agree  with you Chevy. You have to follow The Consumer Guarantees Act amongst others when selling cars and Real Estate agents have set rules to follow when auctioning a house so why not thoroughbreds

 

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2 hours ago, army said:

Interesting you say that. Have you ever taken the time to look back over what TE Akau have brought the last few years and how well the horses have done or havent done.  I looked at 2015 for inteest and ownly looked at the syndicate horses. Total of 9 horses paid a figure of 2.46 million. So far they have earnt 531865. That includes Heroic Valopur in that and it earned 377355. Of those 9 horses 4 are inactive an 800000 purchase didnt even race. So when you look at that there is a hugh loss especially once you take into account the insurance training fees.

No they would be way in front.....they have sold some for big money as stallions.

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21 hours ago, Red Rum said:

 .Some of those yearling later in week could go for lower than float fee to Karaka.

I've said that many times RR. It's impossible to sell that many horses in that time frame and get a positive result for all vendors. Alternatively vendors on the later days are very naive if they fail to realise they're going to get a bath.

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27 minutes ago, Blue said:

I've said that many times RR. It's impossible to sell that many horses in that time frame and get a positive result for all vendors. Alternatively vendors on the later days are very naive if they fail to realise they're going to get a bath.

It's impossible you say? Did you not see the recent Magic Millions Book 1 results?

Lots: 888      Sold: 718     Passed In: 88     Withdrawn: 82     Clearance: 89.08%

Top Price: $1,700,000 and another 10 Lots sold for $1m+!

Gross: $170,697,500     Average: $237,740     Median: $170,000

More catalogued then Karaka Book 1 yet Gross, Average and Median all up on 2018 figures!

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56 minutes ago, Blue said:

I've said that many times RR. It's impossible to sell that many horses in that time frame and get a positive result for all vendors. Alternatively vendors on the later days are very naive if they fail to realise they're going to get a bath.

Read a story about Irish sales last year , some foals / yearlings  were abandoned to knackers van because vendors didn't want to float them home,  that's rock rock bottom Blue . Hopefully not that bad here . Overproduction a problem. I suppose sales good poor mares are bred,  time sale time comes and a slump hits  offspring worthless , harsh but it's brutal at times imho.

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5 minutes ago, Red Rum said:

 Overproduction a problem. 

Only going to get worse in the future with less participants in the game once the closure of tracks and forcing people to spend there gambling money in the pokie machines as racing will be forgotten sport in some areas.

I'll go up Sunday and make a home for a couple of cheapies..... finding people to race them will be the biggest problem.  

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2 hours ago, scooby3051 said:

No they would be way in front.....they have sold some for big money as stallions.

Te Akau not only ones who've chucked some money down  gurgler on odd  dud over years .Snaafi Dancer 1983 Keeneland Sales 10 mill USD of dud , slower  on John Dunlops gallops at Arundel than old electric milk float , so slow that he apparently advised the Maktoums to go straight to stud as he would be embarrassing,  went to stud  and fired blanks . 10 million usd worth of dud.

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2 hours ago, scooby3051 said:

No they would be way in front.....they have sold some for big money as stallions.

I just looked at one year and syndicate horse and none of them are stallions. I did Te Akau because they were the biggest NZ buyer so it was easy to look up. I did the syndicate horses that were not exported because once again it was easy to follow. The 9 I used was only part of what they brought so yes they could of sold some for stallions and yes heretic velourcid in there even though she racing overseas but earns good money here. 

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6 minutes ago, Aaron Bidlake said:

Only going to get worse in the future with less participants in the game once the closure of tracks and forcing people to spend there gambling money in the pokie machines as racing will be forgotten sport in some areas.

I'll go up Sunday and make a home for a couple of cheapies..... finding people to race them will be the biggest problem.  

If stakes do increase which I doubt they will by much, I mean going in writing saying stakes doubling like I've read is just  dreaming .It just cannot happen financially , and sustainably .However if they increase a bit , then those that can do a bit themselves to cut costs  might get lucky with cheaper undervalued horse  and ride a bit of wave , who knows it's possible. 

Over 3k month for syndicate horse though , 36k year , wow   ,  some of those snails some syndicates keep in training you got to wonder about.Id be pulling pin on a few 4 year old maidens /rating 65 ers  who follow round at back,  quick sharp.Dead money, bar subsidising a lifestyle for someone.

 

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I guess you are the only one then who doesn't know/understand that until the auctioneer says the yearling is on the market then it hasn't reached its reserve......and to get it to that reserve there has to be/has always been vendor bids

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4 hours ago, Virtual.Stipe said:

It's impossible you say? Did you not see the recent Magic Millions Book 1 results?

Lots: 888      Sold: 718     Passed In: 88     Withdrawn: 82     Clearance: 89.08%

Top Price: $1,700,000 and another 10 Lots sold for $1m+!

Gross: $170,697,500     Average: $237,740     Median: $170,000

More catalogued then Karaka Book 1 yet Gross, Average and Median all up on 2018 figures!

I think you have "virtually" answered you own question Stipe.

Magic Millions sale Australia,Blue was probably just suggesting NZ sale. 

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23 minutes ago, Swoopa said:

I think you have "virtually" answered you own question Stipe.

Magic Millions sale Australia,Blue was probably just suggesting NZ sale. 

Blue didn't mention any particular sale. He stated: "It's impossible to sell that many horses in that time frame and get a positive result for all vendors"

Magic Millions results prove that IT IS POSSIBLE to sell that many horses in that time frame and get a positive result for all vendors.

Karaka Book 1 was quantity before quality. Not enough progeny by the hot "Aussie sires" in the catalogue to attract more of the 60ish% of your market to come to NZ. Having them here, means they are looking at yearlings and one or two or more might appeal in person to the eye, when it doesn't in the catalogue.

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VS.  The serious Aussie buyers do not generally come here to buy horses by Australian sires --they can get plenty of them at home. They usually want classic type horses.

BTW. If you want to see how brutal this game can be have a look at this month's Inglis online sale. At a quick count and just looking at the the colts/geldings there are 5 Fastnet Rocks, 3 Sntizels, a couple of Written Tycoons etc. --all going for "peanuts"

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9 hours ago, Virtual.Stipe said:

Blue didn't mention any particular sale. He stated: "It's impossible to sell that many horses in that time frame and get a positive result for all vendors"

Magic Millions results prove that IT IS POSSIBLE to sell that many horses in that time frame and get a positive result for all vendors.

Karaka Book 1 was quantity before quality. Not enough progeny by the hot "Aussie sires" in the catalogue to attract more of the 60ish% of your market to come to NZ. Having them here, means they are looking at yearlings and one or two or more might appeal in person to the eye, when it doesn't in the catalogue.

Yes, He hasn't  specified which  sale or sales in general but this thread is about Karaka,so I am presuming.I'm sure Blue can answer that himself!

Adding to Breeders comments, alot of buyers are only going MM,Inglis Melbourne and  Sydney sale so that  they have horse to run around under the three bonus schemes in Australia if they don't make a group horse.

Only had a quick look at the results thus far,but seems the Aussies have come for a" Derby "horse!!

 

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Certainly only referring to Karaka and given the current state of the industry in NZ. I was there on Day #1 and heard Winston's address but just another version of what's already been said and as I have mentioned previously, any great move in stakes (which he didn't specifically mention this time) will invariably be countered by a similar rise in training fees so things will remain relatively the same IMHO. Someone earlier mentioned syndicate costs. Pretty hefty in my experience. Every blade of grass has a $$ figure attached. Right down to the surcharge on public holidays. You can pay dearly for the photo on the wall if you're not careful or seriously dedicated.

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1 hour ago, Breeder said:

VS.  The serious Aussie buyers do not generally come here to buy horses by Australian sires --they can get plenty of them at home. They usually want classic type horses.

BTW. If you want to see how brutal this game can be have a look at this month's Inglis online sale. At a quick count and just looking at the the colts/geldings there are 5 Fastnet Rocks, 3 Sntizels, a couple of Written Tycoons etc. --all going for "peanuts"

I disagree. Long Leaf(Fastnet Rock) was bought by Coolmoore for $750k in 2017. In 2018, of the 13 Fastnet's sold last year, 8 went to Australia, including the $1mil Lot 156 to Lindsay Park.

The Inglis Online sale you refer is for "tried" horses which shold be compared to Gavel House. I'll let you know how many go for "peanuts" at Inglis Easter this year, when I'm there.

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If you read my comment about the Inglis online sale correctly you would note I said that it was an indication of how brutal the game was --- most of those horse would have been bought for big money and now they are being on sold for "nothing". I was not comparing the sale to the "normal" yearling sales.

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We sold a horse at Karaka in 2018. The reserve on one of our horses was 80k and the stud who was selling for us had vendor bidders in the audience. Astonishingly, one of the vendor bidders missed the memo and put his hand up for a 90k bid (i.e 10k through reserve). The look on the auctioneers (Morgan) was priceless and he actually said "are you sure". 

The yearling obviously didn't sell given there was no genuine buyer but the best was to come. I emailed NZB anonymously and enquired as to why the results said our horse had been passed in when in fact the hammer had fallen, albeit on the back of a mistake. Their response  - "the horse was purchased legitimately but subsequently failed a vet test" 

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16 hours ago, Red Rum said:

If stakes do increase which I doubt they will by much, I mean going in writing saying stakes doubling like I've read is just  dreaming .It just cannot happen financially , and sustainably .However if they increase a bit , then those that can do a bit themselves to cut costs  might get lucky with cheaper undervalued horse  and ride a bit of wave , who knows it's possible. 

Over 3k month for syndicate horse though , 36k year , wow   ,  some of those snails some syndicates keep in training you got to wonder about.Id be pulling pin on a few 4 year old maidens /rating 65 ers  who follow round at back,  quick sharp.Dead money, bar subsidising a lifestyle for someone.

 

Not wrong there RR. Will be interesting to see what the costs are around that expensive Savabeel colt...

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18 hours ago, Aaron Bidlake said:

Only going to get worse in the future with less participants in the game once the closure of tracks and forcing people to spend there gambling money in the pokie machines as racing will be forgotten sport in some areas.

I'll go up Sunday and make a home for a couple of cheapies..... finding people to race them will be the biggest problem.  

Just buy the right ones Aaron and you'll be fine....:rcfe-like:

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