RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
JackSprat

The Fixer Fixed Up

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11 hours ago, lamour said:

I can only assume Nat didn’t want to come round so as not to risk getting a tough run if the pace went on again.

Exactly this. My thoughts exactly. 

From the draw, and his lack of recent racing, The Fixer was driven as expected. 

Hindsight is a lovely thing.

If Ms Rasmussen set The Fixer alite during the early stages of the slow 61 second half, there is absolutely no guarantee it still would have eventuated to be a 61 second half. Eg. Speed goes on, something else pulls out in front of you, or you get trapped 3 wide without cover, first up and you're shot. 

The NZ Cup winning driver knew what she was doing, to give her horse it's best winning chance. 

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56 minutes ago, Rusty said:

Exactly this. My thoughts exactly. 

From the draw, and his lack of recent racing, The Fixer was driven as expected. 

Hindsight is a lovely thing.

If Ms Rasmussen set The Fixer alite during the early stages of the slow 61 second half, there is absolutely no guarantee it still would have eventuated to be a 61 second half. Eg. Speed goes on, something else pulls out in front of you, or you get trapped 3 wide without cover, first up and you're shot. 

The NZ Cup winning driver knew what she was doing, to give her horse it's best winning chance. 

Good summation as was this earlier

Thats an interesting observation of the race and the way it panned out. Given the draw im sure if she had taken off mid race ended parked and blew out the last bit on a 26.5 second final 400  how would you and others assess that drive,

 

Greg

Thats why its called punting

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1 hour ago, Rusty said:

If Ms Rasmussen set The Fixer alite during the early stages of the slow 61 second half, there is absolutely no guarantee it still would have eventuated to be a 61 second half. Eg. Speed goes on, something else pulls out in front of you, or you get trapped 3 wide without cover, first up and you're shot. 

The NZ Cup winning driver knew what she was doing, to give her horse it's best winning chance. 

Stablemate in the death and the pace was going to go on? Yeah right.

Yes she knew exactly what she was doing alright, but it was nothing to do with getting some place money, it was to get the perfect pre-Aussie hitout .... and she got it!

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6 hours ago, JackSprat said:

Stablemate in the death and the pace was going to go on? Yeah right.

Yes she knew exactly what she was doing alright, but it was nothing to do with getting some place money, it was to get the perfect pre-Aussie hitout .... and she got it!

Ok Jack , i think we all get the picture as far as you are concerned on what happened on the track. Clearly, others saw it differently.

PS, have you actually ever driven under race day conditions at a premiere meeting???

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I been watchin, readin thru this thread and you know what Jack mate, perhaps you could've done what alot of others do 'READ ALLSTARS WEBSITE'! it had it all on there, what Mark's thorts and Nats thorts were on how they figgered race would pan, horses chances an fitness etc etc etc.....how race went was of no surprise to me (and I don't bet) after reading their site, no fix up or fit up.......that's it how it was! pointless to moan now, it's done! you copped a loss, one word.....BUGGAH!!!!

GOOOOOO!!!! THE MIGHTY ALLSTARS FOR ALL THE RACES AHEAD IN AUS!!!   :rcfe-happy-2:

Cheers Iraklis

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So you'd suggest reading the All Stars website to see who's having a go and who's just out for a run?

And people wonder why the game is in a death spiral!

Punters (big and small) are entitled to believe that all starters are doing their best - as opposed to doing their best for next week.

Years ago you could give a horse a quiet run and go unnoticed. Video replays took care of that. The cheating is highlighted now-a-days, and the punters are voting with their feet!

Anyone that thinks "quiet runs" are acceptable in this day and age is obviously a diehard punter from the older demographics brought up on a diet of a certain amount of cheating being expected. .

It's no coincidence that the younger punters are taking their money to where the cheating is less likely to occur, and the results more reliable eg. casinos, lotteries and even sports betting. Yes they'll turn up on NZ Cup day in droves but they'd sooner spent $100 on food and drink on the day than $100 punting for the entire year!

The drive on The Fixer the other night won't kill the game on it's own, but it's typical of the reason why the average age of a harness punter is now close to retirement age, and unlike his/her younger counterparts, too old and tired to demand better.

The game is dying at roughly the same rate that the retirees are. Years and years of industry leaders that have failed to address this trend are now overseeing an industry that probably has less than 20 years to live in any sort of professional capacity.

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Well Jack as I said it was all there, for all to read, hell the man (MarkP) even referred to his thorts in an interview (so did Nat), point is you 'CHOSE' to bet the horse that aint AllStars fault/blame and neither is it race fixing, or anything else! :rolleyes: oh, and if you think about it, The Fixer has been awol since The Cup right, the Mile was his first back after his time out......come on, how hard do you really think he was guna go? a shit draw, a not fully match fit horse, over sprint distance; did you really want to see him bein thrashed to win or place in the race to salve your bettin pride? and how do you know at that time The Fixer wasn't doin his best with what he had on the night? if you as a 'punter longtime' had done your homework more carefully you would have known all this, and perhaps made a better decision! thus, I reiterate, the necessary info was all out there for all to read an hear and none the least The Allstars site!

Race is done and dusted, cryin in yuh beerseys now aint guna help the situation, sorry mate but you 'gambled' and lost simple, aint that part of gamblin yuh take it on the chin when yuh do!

 

Cheers Iraklis

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18 hours ago, Newmarket RC said:

Ok Jack , i think we all get the picture as far as you are concerned on what happened on the track. Clearly, others saw it differently.

PS, have you actually ever driven under race day conditions at a premiere meeting???

Given the no response  I'd say he has never driven under race day conditions.

Good post by Iraklis though. 

Horse was never ready  for that assignment from that draw with the time they ran.  MP basically said as much in interviews and on their webpage.

 

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14 hours ago, JackSprat said:

So you'd suggest reading the All Stars website to see who's having a go and who's just out for a run?

And people wonder why the game is in a death spiral!

Punters (big and small) are entitled to believe that all starters are doing their best - as opposed to doing their best for next week.

Years ago you could give a horse a quiet run and go unnoticed. Video replays took care of that. The cheating is highlighted now-a-days, and the punters are voting with their feet!

Anyone that thinks "quiet runs" are acceptable in this day and age is obviously a diehard punter from the older demographics brought up on a diet of a certain amount of cheating being expected. .

It's no coincidence that the younger punters are taking their money to where the cheating is less likely to occur, and the results more reliable eg. casinos, lotteries and even sports betting. Yes they'll turn up on NZ Cup day in droves but they'd sooner spent $100 on food and drink on the day than $100 punting for the entire year!

The drive on The Fixer the other night won't kill the game on it's own, but it's typical of the reason why the average age of a harness punter is now close to retirement age, and unlike his/her younger counterparts, too old and tired to demand better.

The game is dying at roughly the same rate that the retirees are. Years and years of industry leaders that have failed to address this trend are now overseeing an industry that probably has less than 20 years to live in any sort of professional capacity.

I take it by your avoidance of my original statement that you are Ok with "reading the All Stars website to see who's having a go and who's just out for a run"?

If a horse isn't ready to put his best foot forward ie. give the punters a run for their money, then they should be at the trials!

And by punters I don't mean me. The $10 I lost on the race is of no significance to me or the TAB, but the damage such behaviour does to the image of the game is immeasurable.

Clearly you are in the "old diehard punter" demographic that are happy to factor in "trying or not trying" as an acceptable variable in punting. New age punters aren't, hence the game being in a death spiral.

It's not rocket science. A whole generation have deserted the game because of it, and when the older generation that are propping up the game pass on, so will harness racing.

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50 minutes ago, Fartoomuch said:

Given the no response  I'd say he has never driven under race day conditions.

Quite the contrary FTM. Had quite a successful career as both a trainer and driver at a semi-pro level for over a decade, and later as an administrator and sponsor.

 

Horse was never ready  for that assignment from that draw with the time they ran.  MP basically said as much in interviews and on their webpage.

So can you kindly tell us what right he had to be in the race as a well supported 2nd favourite carrying a huge amount of punters money, if as you say he was "never ready" and incapable of running "the time they ran" - 1.54.5 - which handy maidens regularly run - why was he there?

We now know whey. They wanted a "nice workout" to prepare him for his Aussie campaign.

I'm not surprised that you can't see the problem with this. Neither can those running the game!

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Fair dinkum Jack.....it's just plain silly to even partly blame racings loss in popularity to  horses such as The Fixer entering races when not fully fit or not primed to win or place !

For various reasons , even in group races , many horses will not be capable of winning or running up to their very best form.

In last few weeks I saw Temporale barely complete a race when well fancied then a few days later come out and win a good race. It had an off night. A friends horse after winning a few modest race here because trainer said it was never more than 85% fit ,was sold to the USA where it could race with medication and it stepped off plane and won 7 from 8 !

Last night I watched two of worlds top tennis players compete in matches where they were clearly injured ,I bet huge money changed hands on those games.....Ditto in Boxing ,where anything goes the betting is huge and growing . These two 'horse races' where its so easy to tank are among the fastest growing betting events....its gambling !

Feel welcome to give me my pedigree...yes I'm one of those !

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Jack read what I said properly mate! regarding the Fixer I believe yes it is ok to read what his trainer and co-trainer say about his upcoming races and how they feel he may or may not go! why would it not be, POINT IS ALL THE NECESSARY INFO WAS OUT THERE FOR ALL INCLUDING YOU! to see, and you seem to be doin a hell of a lot of moanin for someone who only lost $10!!! methinks your tryin to make summit outta nuthin give over already......and for your info I aint from any ol school punters club etc as, and I will say in words you can get I....DO...NOT...BET!!!!!

The Fixer had as much right to be in the field as any other! his entry fee was paid up so what's your problem really? I say again, next time do yuh homework bit better and yuh mightnt lose yuh $10! no one forced you to back him, you assumed that he would run his guts out first up after a break, and oh gee! he didn't......

 

Cheers Iraklis

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2 hours ago, tasman man 11 said:

Fair dinkum Jack.....it's just plain silly to even partly blame racings loss in popularity to  horses such as The Fixer entering races when not fully fit or not primed to win or place !

For various reasons , even in group races , many horses will not be capable of winning or running up to their very best form.

In last few weeks I saw Temporale barely complete a race when well fancied then a few days later come out and win a good race. It had an off night. A friends horse after winning a few modest race here because trainer said it was never more than 85% fit ,was sold to the USA where it could race with medication and it stepped off plane and won 7 from 8 !

Last night I watched two of worlds top tennis players compete in matches where they were clearly injured ,I bet huge money changed hands on those games.....Ditto in Boxing ,where anything goes the betting is huge and growing . These two 'horse races' where its so easy to tank are among the fastest growing betting events....its gambling !

Feel welcome to give me my pedigree...yes I'm one of those !

Not silly in the least Tasman Man. It's all part of the same problem - punters don't trust harness racing. Wondering which horses running in races have intentions other than trying to win is clearly a trust issue. Old school thought is that it's "just another variable" surrounding the race. For the younger generation it says "let go to the casino".

Players carrying injuries, or horses performing below par are a very different issue to those that are in peak condition but only trying at 80%.

The old school thinking about this being acceptable is what got the game into the state it finds itself in now. It's the problem - not the answer!

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2 hours ago, Iraklis said:

Jack read what I said properly mate! regarding the Fixer I believe yes it is ok to read what his trainer and co-trainer say about his upcoming races and how they feel he may or may not go! why would it not be, POINT IS ALL THE NECESSARY INFO WAS OUT THERE FOR ALL INCLUDING YOU! to see, and you seem to be doin a hell of a lot of moanin for someone who only lost $10!!! methinks your tryin to make summit outta nuthin give over already......and for your info I aint from any ol school punters club etc as, and I will say in words you can get I....DO...NOT...BET!!!!!

The Fixer had as much right to be in the field as any other! his entry fee was paid up so what's your problem really? I say again, next time do yuh homework bit better and yuh mightnt lose yuh $10! no one forced you to back him, you assumed that he would run his guts out first up after a break, and oh gee! he didn't......

Cheers Iraklis

Whilst you appear to be a raging harness racing enthusiast, you don't have the perspective what keeps the game turning over - the punting dollars.

It makes no difference to you if one or two well supported runners are only going around for the run with "bigger fish to fry" next week,  because you have no money at stake and are only there for the spectacle and preferably an All Stars victory. You don't actually do anything for the game other than provide a little (or maybe a lot) of vocal support.

You've missed the point entirely about my "moaning". The $10 I lost is meaningless. I'd happily give more to a busker in the mall providing good entertainment - and doing his best. What it is though is symbolic of why you could fire a gun into the crowd at most trotting meetings safe in the knowledge that you aren't going to hit a member of the general public under the age of 50!

No newly interested person in the game is going to go to the All Stars website to see whether various running are trying this week or not. And nor should they have to!

As long as "soft runs" are condoned, the under 50's at race meeting will become harder and harder to find.

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25 minutes ago, JackSprat said:

Whilst you appear to be a raging harness racing enthusiast, you don't have the perspective what keeps the game turning over - the punting dollars.

It makes no difference to you if one or two well supported runners are only going around for the run with "bigger fish to fry" next week,  because you have no money at stake and are only there for the spectacle and preferably an All Stars victory. You don't actually do anything for the game other than provide a little (or maybe a lot) of vocal support.

You've missed the point entirely about my "moaning". The $10 I lost is meaningless. I'd happily give more to a busker in the mall providing good entertainment - and doing his best. What it is though is symbolic of why you could fire a gun into the crowd at most trotting meetings safe in the knowledge that you aren't going to hit a member of the general public under the age of 50!

No newly interested person in the game is going to go to the All Stars website to see whether various running are trying this week or not. And nor should they have to!

As long as "soft runs" are condoned, the under 50's at race meeting will become harder and harder to find.

Just my opinion but i think you are out of line attacking Iraklis in the way you have.

He is a true enthusiast  based on all his posts. Whether he punts or not is his business and irrelevant 

As for your increasingly obvious attack on  All Stars go for your life. You join an.illustrious group including Brodie and Bogeyman. I rest my case.

They are always available to trackside in both islands  and .tell it as honestly as possible given we are talking about horses not machines based on.my observations 

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34 minutes ago, Fartoomuch said:

Just my opinion but i think you are out of line attacking Iraklis in the way you have.

He is a true enthusiast  based on all his posts. Whether he punts or not is his business and irrelevant 

As for your increasingly obvious attack on  All Stars go for your life. You join an.illustrious group including Brodie and Bogeyman. I rest my case.

They are always available to trackside in both islands  and .tell it as honestly as possible given we are talking about horses not machines based on.my observations 

No attack at all on Iraklis. Totally agree that he's an enthusiast. Just putting his views in perspective. Probably a hell of a nice guy, but looking out for the punter is not one of his concerns.

As for attacking the All Stars stable. You're barking up the wrong tree there old chap. Have known Mark for close to 30 years, and had horses with him in the past You have to admire their skill even though I'm no longer a client. Doesn't mean that I think their dominance is good for the game.

I'm simply pointing out why the under 50's aren't interested in the game. Unfortunately the game is run by the Over 50's, for the Over 50's, and they have no clue why the Under 50"s couldn't care less!

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42 minutes ago, ivanthegreat said:

Nice crowd...Ranfurly Shield rugby was the same.

It was at end of War....people enjoyed a day out , nothing else to do.

Some of them would have had 10 bob each way or a 5 shilling double[ ? ]...the TAB had not started.

The racing with those big crowds was a shambles...huge transport and catering issues ,and you couldn't move to get to the toilet so many in crowd never bet..But in post war years attendances and turnovers boomed.

The 1945-46 year saw tote turnover 75% up on previous season, And many people willing to try their hand at Ownership....they had to run many races in division.

But the racing was rife with dishonesty........drugs were experimented with ,horses switched , jockeys interfering with opposition horses , bribes [ even to the judge ,cos no photo finish.]etc etc etc

Racing has never been as clean and honest as the present time !

Crowds today ???????? There were more people than in that 1945 photo at the Sylvia Park mall today.

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1 hour ago, JackSprat said:

Whilst you appear to be a raging harness racing enthusiast, you don't have the perspective what keeps the game turning over - the punting dollars.

It makes no difference to you if one or two well supported runners are only going around for the run with "bigger fish to fry" next week,  because you have no money at stake and are only there for the spectacle and preferably an All Stars victory. You don't actually do anything for the game other than provide a little (or maybe a lot) of vocal support.

You've missed the point entirely about my "moaning". The $10 I lost is meaningless. I'd happily give more to a busker in the mall providing good entertainment - and doing his best. What it is though is symbolic of why you could fire a gun into the crowd at most trotting meetings safe in the knowledge that you aren't going to hit a member of the general public under the age of 50!

No newly interested person in the game is going to go to the All Stars website to see whether various running are trying this week or not. And nor should they have to!

As long as "soft runs" are condoned, the under 50's at race meeting will become harder and harder to find.

Us youngsters don't like going to a racetrack cos its so bloody boring ,watching some horses run around a track ,on average for 2 minutes every 35 minutes.

Most facilities are very poor.

Most TAB's are depressing.

Its very complicated to learn the ropes ,especially compared to sports Betting where we all have an interest / opinion in the outcome.

Racing is NOT a COOL thing to do ......OK for one day a year ,dress up for the social fun and daytime drinking and everyone wants to go for the experience  !

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The industry does not need so called enthusiasts like Iraklis who don't bet or contribute financially. It needs punters like Jack Sprat and I agree with him. Trainers must not be allowed to use races, particularly feature races which attract more betting, to be used as trials to improve a horses fitness for a forthcomiung event. That preparation should be done at home or at trials and workouts. When horses go to the races they should be ready to win and driven accordingly. Isn't that what operation Inca is all about?

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1 hour ago, tasman man 11 said:

Us youngsters don't like going to a racetrack cos its so bloody boring ,watching some horses run around a track ,on average for 2 minutes every 35 minutes.

Most facilities are very poor.

Most TAB's are depressing.

Its very complicated to learn the ropes ,especially compared to sports Betting where we all have an interest / opinion in the outcome.

Racing is NOT a COOL thing to do ......OK for one day a year ,dress up for the social fun and daytime drinking and everyone wants to go for the experience  !

Some of the Over 50's are prepared to accept the above, because that's what they've always accepted.

Most of the Under 50's aren't prepared to accept the above, so they've taken their money and gone elsewhere.

And the Over 50's laden industry leadership group are left wondering what happened!

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Unless one knows Iraklis personally, I think it is unfair to pass judgment on him. 

Sure, he does not bet. So? 

Just because he does not bet, it does not give a cast iron guarantee that he does not contribute to the industry. Hell a lot of trainers do not bet. You couldn't say they do not contribute to the industry. 

He may or may have owned horses, trained a few, driven, or been employed in the industry. And even if none of the above is true, that should not diminish his opinion, nor his genuine love for the sport. 

Iraklis' two cents is worth just as much as anybody else's (even if one doesn't agree with him) and the fact he does not bet is completely and utterly irrelevant. 

And if anybody needs a reminder, it is called GAMBLING when placing a bet. 

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Personally I thought there was no doubt the fixer was just there for a run, and whether the punetrs had money on it or not seemed irrelevant,which is the point of the complaint.  The all stars are better than tha,t in that respect,and let themselves down by using that race as a trial.  Personally I thought it just as bad that brent mangos elected to sit 4 back the fence on all u need is faith,another all stars runner,when he should have been 3  back the outer.  Clearly he wanted to make it easier for the fixer by allowing that horse to settle in the better position.  I didn't realise he was driving the fixer as well.

The race was a non event and just a bit of a joke as far as an actual contest. 

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