RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
tim vince

stakemoney

Recommended Posts

5 hours ago, chiknsmack said:

I mostly agree, except that the more horses you have in a race the more betting you have. So just by showing up a horse has helped boost turnover, so it deserves a slice of the pie.

Maybe having the code body cover all drivers' fees and not charge nomination fees is a better way to give all horses (and their owners) a share of the code revenue which they helped earn. You could call it Free Racing or something.

Nothing irks more than paying noms and acceptances for Industry day races , I think that model is absurd youre trying to get participation and horses through the ranks to weekend days of racing and you get noms and acceptances, losing free racing was the worse thing the thoroughbred code did. I don't mind the jockey fee but noms and acceptances is just a tax on the owner. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Industry days

Drop the maiden stakes to $8000.

Club to pay all nomination, acceptance fees and jockeys' riding fees AND  to pay a $200 appearance fee for all starters, as defined by the TAB.  Scratch because of changed track conditions or scratch at the start= tough luck.

Increase acceptance fees by 50%.  Balloted out horses that scratch prior to scratching time must pay up.

Split the maiden stakes $6250 1st,  $1000 2nd; $500 3rd and $250 for fourth.

Horses that have not earned stake money in their ten prior races are ineligible for appearance fees as they are too hopeless.

Limit fields to 14 horses, and have as many as ten on the ballot.

This will help with the excessive costs incurred on whether the horse is a race horse or whether its time would be better spent as a horse trekking horse, or rounding up beefies out the back of beyond.

Fourteen runners makes for a competitive betting market.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, gubellini said:

Race 1 at the Gold Coast Magic Millions meeting today Maiden 1200m. Stake $264,000. At the end of this year we will still be running around for $10,000.

Would there be many maiden in NZ that would have been competitive in that field? 

Most of the maidens running around midweek in NZ would probably only be competitive at King Island and Healsville that are racing for $2500 and $4000 today

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aaron King Island was a Non TAB meeting and Healesville was a Picnic Meeting. Any TAB meetings in Australia have Maiden Races in the $15,000- $30,000 range. I will be extremely surprised if our Maiden Stakes rise above $10,000 for industry days this year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Chris Wood said:

After borrowing all the money to up the stakes, and incoming revenue not reaching the levels that were predicted, that could be the case.

 

 

And you can bet your bottom dollar that they will take it from the 10k maidens instead of knocking 100k off the G1s.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Leggy said:

 

And you can bet your bottom dollar that they will take it from the 10k maidens instead of knocking 100k off the G1s.

That's exactly where the money should come from , ''IF'' a rebalance is required then mid week stakes should be trimmed  , if your horse is struggling to win mid week you haven't  got much of a horse or you are preparing for Saturday . MAKE SATURDAY  GREAT AGAIN .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Chris Wood said:

Going below $10 k would cause more owners to walk,, winning stakes returned to owners now on these races are flat paying 6- 8 weeks training fees! 

Quite agree but if it becomes necessary to cut, you can guarantee they will continue the failed policy of retaining or enhancing top end stakes at the expense of the bottom end. So yip, you poor blokes will have less horses and less owners and the industry will have less revenue unless they can steal it from the taxpayer, clubs, pokies or elsewhere. And there still won't be a red cent extracted to expend on track infrastructure upgrades. They are stuck with sustaining a failing model instead of trying a potentially sustainable one. Very sad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Chris Wood said:

Going below $10 k would cause more owners to walk,, winning stakes returned to owners now on these races are flat paying 6- 8 weeks training fees! 

Why would they walk , they stuck around when $7000 was the minimum . Trainers should concentrate on training and charging for their services , trainers aren't responsible for the level of stakes .

If funds are short take it from mid week and load Saturdays , give owners a chance to recoup costs .

The reality is the only hope for younger trainers is mass centralisation which we might see if Messara report is adopted . Take Riccarton , an all weather track could see racing every 2 or 3 weeks , the saving on transport alone for Riccarton trained horses would be huge . Lower costs will give trainers more scope to up their fees .

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, tim vince said:

Racing is a pyramid.if  u don't look after the bottom u are buggered coz that is where most are.if u want  only a few trainers and few owners dropping the bottom stakes is the way 2 go.

No where in society does the bottom prosper , the bottom is the bottom .  If that's where trainers are they can accept it and hope for better or move on .

Not all trainers struggle , plenty , but not all make a good living , the reality is the days of strong interest in horse ownership are over , long gone are the days when every farmer owned a race horse , today people are happy with 5% and a great day out , preferably with great facility's . If racing concentrates on the so called bottom that's where racing will finish up .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Far too many race meetings for very average racehorses. What is it this year?... 1031 race meetings? Halve it to around 500 meetings a year.... instant stakes increase with bigger better fields. :rcfe-like:

Send the mid-week donkeys back to the trials to stay there until they win one which will qualify them for a race-day start midweek. :rcf-monkey-2::rcf-monkey:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, tripple alliance said:

No where in society does the bottom prosper , the bottom is the bottom .  If that's where trainers are they can accept it and hope for better or move on .

Not all trainers struggle , plenty , but not all make a good living , the reality is the days of strong interest in horse ownership are over , long gone are the days when every farmer owned a race horse , today people are happy with 5% and a great day out , preferably with great facility's . If racing concentrates on the so called bottom that's where racing will finish up .

Yeah cause concentrating on the top in NZ has worked out sooooo well , thats why we are leading the world in stakes and starters etc ... oh no wait a minute

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Baz (NZ) said:

Far too many race meetings for very average racehorses. What is it this year?... 1031 race meetings? Halve it to around 500 meetings a year.... instant stakes increase with bigger better fields. :rcfe-like:

Send the mid-week donkeys back to the trials to stay there until they win one which will qualify them for a race-day start midweek. :rcf-monkey-2::rcf-monkey:

How are those 500 races going to generate enough revenue to run the sport?

I thought the tracks were farked , the country tracks weren't needed , no one is breeding but now I'm learning we are racing donkeys? I suppose you've got a couple of Open Handicappers in the back garden?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On 1/12/2019 at 2:04 PM, Tauhei Notts said:

Industry days

Drop the maiden stakes to $8000.

Club to pay all nomination, acceptance fees and jockeys' riding fees AND  to pay a $200 appearance fee for all starters, as defined by the TAB.  Scratch because of changed track conditions or scratch at the start= tough luck.

Increase acceptance fees by 50%.  Balloted out horses that scratch prior to scratching time must pay up.

Split the maiden stakes $6250 1st,  $1000 2nd; $500 3rd and $250 for fourth.

Horses that have not earned stake money in their ten prior races are ineligible for appearance fees as they are too hopeless.

Limit fields to 14 horses, and have as many as ten on the ballot.

This will help with the excessive costs incurred on whether the horse is a race horse or whether its time would be better spent as a horse trekking horse, or rounding up beefies out the back of beyond.

Fourteen runners makes for a competitive betting market.

 

Are you proposing a significant change in the funding policy?

Cause I can't see many clubs being able to afford to pay appearance fees, I believe the stakes distribution should be altered and in particular free racing return even if it meant in a redistribution of the stakes on offer. Look at Nowra races in Aus tomorrow , half to the winner then everyone receives something down to 10th. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Huey said:

Yeah cause concentrating on the top in NZ has worked out sooooo well , thats why we are leading the world in stakes and starters etc ... oh no wait a minute

The reality is NZ racing doesn't concentrate on the top , sure we have a derby worth a million  and a few WFA , Cups and G1races worth 200k but if we halved those it would make very little difference to the bottom races . This is like the never ending complaints about RB wages , they might be high , they might not but  if we halved those it would also make very little difference to stakes when spread over the three codes , our problems are much greater that .

Think big young man , look up , focussing on the bottom will lead you to the bottom , think beer , drink beer , think wine and have a fine time .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1031 races like this below....is no good for punters...no good for the majority of owners and no good for generating revenue for the industry. Fix the handicapping....Fix the calendar programming and reduce race meetings to draw bigger fields. I wanna see 18 horse fields worth $80,000 instead of a 5 horse field worth $40,000. One Midweek meeting One weekend meeting per region only.
 

image.png.c0500b3970541502130b44af25a728f2.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Huey said:

How are those 500 races going to generate enough revenue to run the sport?

I thought the tracks were farked , the country tracks weren't needed , no one is breeding but now I'm learning we are racing donkeys? I suppose you've got a couple of Open Handicappers in the back garden?

Kiwis bet more on the overseas product than the NZ product as is! 2018 betting figures: 54% on OS and 46% on Local(51% OS vs 49% Local in 2017 and ). If you reduced NZ racing, Kiwis would just bet more on OS product. Bad tracks, incompetent stipes, no sectional timing etc etc. The NZ product isn't viewed favourably and going downhill fast!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Baz (NZ) said:

1031 races like this below....is no good for punters...no good for the majority of owners and no good for generating revenue for the industry. Fix the handicapping....Fix the calendar programming and reduce race meetings to draw bigger fields. I wanna see 18 horse fields worth $80,000 instead of a 5 horse field worth $40,000. One Midweek meeting One weekend meeting per region only.
 

image.png.c0500b3970541502130b44af25a728f2.png

So this would be a 10 horse field if we cut the number of races down to 500? 

Without all those other races where do all the other horses come from to go through the grades to make this a 10 horse field? 

Support the base and it will flow towards the top, the bottom are the ones that make 7 horse field 8 or 9 horse fields,keep races open cause they chuck a horse in, grab another horse at the sales and race it, breed a mare they raced, the top hasn't happen without the bottom thats your starting point. They tried to start at the top years ago with $1m races , $2m derbys it didn't work, the multiplier effect will only occur in racing if you feed the bottom to begin with.

The above field is just a prime example of where NZracing has gotten but forgetting the bottom and its restrictive elitist policies. Why on earth was that meeting at Ellerslie yesterday, was it just so some 2yo could qualify for the Karaka million ? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Virtual.Stipe said:

Kiwis bet more on the overseas product than the NZ product as is! 2018 betting figures: 54% on OS and 46% on Local(51% OS vs 49% Local in 2017 and ). If you reduced NZ racing, Kiwis would just bet more on OS product. Bad tracks, incompetent stipes, no sectional timing etc etc. The NZ product isn't viewed favourably and going downhill fast!

So what , aren't we trying to make the NZ product better? Most of my punting is on the o'seas product as well but doesn't mean I'm dumping the NZ product I still want to see it get better and that'll only happen if there is a sounder base to it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Huey said:

So this would be a 10 horse field if we cut the number of races down to 500? 

Without all those other races where do all the other horses come from to go through the grades to make this a 10 horse field? 

Support the base and it will flow towards the top, the bottom are the ones that make 7 horse field 8 or 9 horse fields,keep races open cause they chuck a horse in, grab another horse at the sales and race it, breed a mare they raced, the top hasn't happen without the bottom thats your starting point. They tried to start at the top years ago with $1m races , $2m derbys it didn't work, the multiplier effect will only occur in racing if you feed the bottom to begin with.

The above field is just a prime example of where NZracing has gotten but forgetting the bottom and its restrictive elitist policies. Why on earth was that meeting at Ellerslie yesterday, was it just so some 2yo could qualify for the Karaka million ? 

Huey the only problem with this field is trainer planning , perhaps a lack of ambition  who knows but in the field you show the highest rated horse was Yearn 89 , then Speech craft 86 , the others , 85, 85 and 65 , this was effectively a r85 race , what were trainers thinking passing up the chance of a good stake , memories only(65)  picked up $1800 , Pandering to the bottom won't make any difference if trainers are happy to sit back and let nice stakes pass them by . Boosting the bottom will just make trainers decisions even worse .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.