firepipe 70 Report post Posted December 8, 2018 This will not help nz racing credibility. Huge congrats to those involved but really G1 ? No NoNo. chevy86 and Pam Robson 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mckenzie 600 Report post Posted December 8, 2018 The race has always struggled, and the winners role isn't terribly impressive over the last decade or so. Not sure what you could do to get a better field though, it's already been moved from October to December and that didn't really fix it in terms of lifting the class. It's a bit of a surprise some Australians don't target it with their mares that aren't up to the top class over there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rum 1,833 Report post Posted December 8, 2018 1 hour ago, firepipe said: This will not help nz racing credibility. Huge congrats to those involved but really G1 ? No NoNo. Is what it is , group 1 racing in name only , it may not get any better . 9 year old gelding having 91st start 2nd and last years Guineas placegetter Age of Fire cannot get near average UK and HK reject at Pakenham . It's poor quality racing here at moment but a winners a winner if you back it but if you want to watch good horses racing at good venues brutal fact is check out flight centre for air fares. We're Doomed 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
firepipe 70 Report post Posted December 8, 2018 This field is never ever close to G1. Maybe if nztr had a brain, after acceptances that piss poor , the race could be downgraded to what it was. A piss poor handicap with no black type. Save the G1 for a day and a field that is worthy ? Many of those runners would not have a got a start midweek Sydney. Another nail in the coffin for an industry with no future. Oh no the elite breeders , the privileged will say what a great result. Yeah right Pam Robson 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
We're Doomed 4,824 Report post Posted December 8, 2018 Sadly it probably isn't the worst Group 1 I have seen in NZ. It used to be a decent enough race when it was held in March, but it has been mucked around a lot over the years and never been able to attract a decent sponsor. We just don't have Group 1 horses in NZ these days and many of our group races no longer have any credibility. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
firepipe 70 Report post Posted December 8, 2018 We’re doomed Thank you. If this is not the worst, and I am not questioning your opinion, crickey no future for something I love and spend money on every day. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rum 1,833 Report post Posted December 8, 2018 7 minutes ago, firepipe said: This field is never ever close to G1. Maybe if nztr had a brain, after acceptances that piss poor , the race could be downgraded to what it was. A piss poor handicap with no black type. Save the G1 for a day and a field that is worthy ? Many of those runners would not have a got a start midweek Sydney. Another nail in the coffin for an industry with no future. Oh no the elite breeders , the privileged will say what a great result. Yeah right But firepipe is it a good result for big breeders in long term ? . No good shining a shit as saying goes so long term when a catalogue is opened at sales won't agents look and go a lot of black type on that page , oh it's mostly NZ black type flip the page next lot , prices down stud fees down and so on long term.Winner today has (AUS) by name, what horses with (NZ) by name doing it in big time at moment. Beauty Generation tomorrow should win, must be others , Fifty Fifty goes well in HK and got a South Island connection through dam but are there many others ? There must be , Werther nearer end than beginning , Shillelagh very good but there isn't many readily spring to my mind.Back in day jumpers with NZ by name mopped up big ones in UK but that's over. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insider 3,877 Report post Posted December 8, 2018 Okay guys, you have all been pretty critical of the Captain Cook Stakes Group One! Given as you all seem to know about the quality of bloodstock, how about each of you rate the Wakefield Stakes Group Two. Certainly you don’t have winning form to go on as none of them had won a race before today, but I am sure with you knowledge, that won’t hold you back in telling us all of your thoughts. Liz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rum 1,833 Report post Posted December 8, 2018 9 minutes ago, Insider said: Okay guys, you have all been pretty critical of the Captain Cook Stakes Group One! Given as you all seem to know about the quality of bloodstock, how about each of you rate the Wakefield Stakes Group Two. Certainly you don’t have winning form to go on as none of them had won a race before today, but I am sure with you knowledge, that won’t hold you back in telling us all of your thoughts. Liz So a Group 2 maiden race really , I'd say last year's lot turned out pretty decent bunch on the whole but maiden Group 2 not flash so we will see , havent seen many of those in 40 plus years watching racing. Bit like the Wood Ditton Maiden Stakes at Newmarket , you don't know how good they are till they start mixing it with others.Winner looked good but that Whiskey Neat put that Cinzento horse away easily and she got within 3 lengths of winner. Might turn out worst Group 2 ever who knows. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohokaman 5,762 Report post Posted December 8, 2018 Good to see Big Mike put them away in Aussie RR....track record time too....following on from Roxy winning last night.... Red Rum 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rum 1,833 Report post Posted December 8, 2018 6 minutes ago, Ohokaman said: Good to see Big Mike put them away in Aussie RR....track record time too....following on from Roxy winning last night.... Totally agree OM, Beat a few in there who are in good form too , big stake and great ride beat them fair and square. Big night racing tomorrow night in HK.Latrobe had slight setback I read in RP , waiting for Pakistan Star to hit top gear or throw in towel. I see Volkstock is in at Kranji at 1020 too and Tingle Creek Chase at Sandown always a good race just misses the cut off for Trackside unfortunately tonight as that has 4 of the best steeplechasers you will see flying round best jump course in UK. Will hopefully get uploaded on you tube. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohokaman 5,762 Report post Posted December 8, 2018 You'll enjoy this one RR....Classic Pete and Dud.... rdytdy and Red Rum 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig hitchcock 60 Report post Posted December 9, 2018 Weakest group 1 go back to the one at Hastings in February Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE TORCH 657 Report post Posted December 9, 2018 Nothing wrong with it being a Gp1. At least we are not like Oz who dish them out at a 50:1 ratio compared to England! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponderosa8 1,321 Report post Posted December 9, 2018 15 hours ago, Craig hitchcock said: Weakest group 1 go back to the one at Hastings in February "Hastings in February" just me head scratching... so had to look back in NZTR site and yes it was the Otaki meeting run at Hastings, the Haunui Farm G1 WFA. And looking thru the field I would have to agree with you. We're Doomed 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohokaman 5,762 Report post Posted December 10, 2018 On 12/8/2018 at 10:17 PM, Red Rum said: Totally agree OM, Beat a few in there who are in good form too , big stake and great ride beat them fair and square. Big night racing tomorrow night in HK.Latrobe had slight setback I read in RP , waiting for Pakistan Star to hit top gear or throw in towel. I see Volkstock is in at Kranji at 1020 too and Tingle Creek Chase at Sandown always a good race just misses the cut off for Trackside unfortunately tonight as that has 4 of the best steeplechasers you will see flying round best jump course in UK. Will hopefully get uploaded on you tube. Altior very good. The ex Aussie horse Montaigne also very good in Hong Kong Mile..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midget 4,489 Report post Posted December 10, 2018 On 12/8/2018 at 8:41 PM, Insider said: Okay guys, you have all been pretty critical of the Captain Cook Stakes Group One! Given as you all seem to know about the quality of bloodstock, how about each of you rate the Wakefield Stakes Group Two. Certainly you don’t have winning form to go on as none of them had won a race before today, but I am sure with you knowledge, that won’t hold you back in telling us all of your thoughts. Liz They are right Liz, when HURRAH WON THE RACE.tell me how many he won after the G1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rum 1,833 Report post Posted December 10, 2018 7 hours ago, Ohokaman said: Altior very good. The ex Aussie horse Montaigne also very good in Hong Kong Mile..... Top win that for Altior, flew that first ditch, only just made it . He's a superstar.Second horse been brilliant for years , only four runners but those were 4 high class chasers. As for Beauty Generation they must be tempted by Royal Ascot to win where Able Friend failed. The older mile division looking weak next year in Europe .Saxon Warrior , Roaring Lion, Alpha Centuri , Expert Eye and Recoletos all retired . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
firepipe 70 Report post Posted December 12, 2018 Insider Liz You obviously do not understand? Age group racing is completely different story. Best young horses without 200 hundred convictions or low grade defeats entitled to have a go on potential. The 2 & 3 year olds will see the best , elite perform at the highest level. Those with as many convictions as presented in that “G1” have more than had their chance at the highest level. Not capable , should not be running in a race that promotes allegedly the best NZ to offer the world. Insider and Pam Robson 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virtual.Stipe 34 Report post Posted December 14, 2018 On 12/12/2018 at 6:06 PM, firepipe said: Insider Liz You obviously do not understand? Age group racing is completely different story. Best young horses without 200 hundred convictions or low grade defeats entitled to have a go on potential. The 2 & 3 year olds will see the best , elite perform at the highest level. Those with as many convictions as presented in that “G1” have more than had their chance at the highest level. Not capable , should not be running in a race that promotes allegedly the best NZ to offer the world. About time NZ group racing receive a NZ-1, NZ-2, NZ-3 status just like Singapore does for their racing ; especially the 2YOs races The genuine G1 horses can jump on a plane to AUstralia and prove themselves in real G1 racing fields in Sydney and Melbourne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam Robson 1,536 Report post Posted December 14, 2018 More to the point why doesn't the Graded Stake committee show some judgement and downgrade many of these races? The Riverton Cup has more credentials. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trump 2,741 Report post Posted December 14, 2018 Probably helps the Breeders when older mares win the Group races and gain black type - if it can be called that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewandjo 129 Report post Posted December 14, 2018 the Riverton Cup was the equal LOWEST rated black type race run last season so yeah lets give that a boost Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rum 1,833 Report post Posted December 14, 2018 Lack of quality here at moment is highlighted today at Te Rapa. Two ex UK failed HK gallopers My Gift and Yorkshire Dales had few wins here , I think few weeks back those along with another with same profile won on a Saturday. Check Igraine's German form to form here in NZ , has she improve many kilos , iam not sure but my gut feeling would be improved a bit with age and now meeting weaker horses therefore perfect storm. Horses here wouldnt be trained any better than a German can train a stayer .Seems to be a lot of second chance HK gallopers appearing here now days for the easy pickings , when the failed Singapore ones turn up it really would be rock bottom imho.However it is good to see these horses being given another chance from Asia and fair credit to the trainers of these horses after they arrive here as they must have had the odd issue that the trainers skill here has resolved. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevy86 2,683 Report post Posted December 26, 2018 Well done to the winner today (same as Captain. Cook) but a Group 1 field? I think not. Second and third beaten 3&1/2 and 5 lengths, followed by old Paddy, MM right out of it's depth, SE beaten by track and Nicoletta dropped out at the 600 and finished 45 lengths behind the winner. Not trying to bash any participants but just lamenting the woeful state of racing in NZ. Very difficult to want to show up and cheer them on let alone have a bet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...