poundforpound

20 important questions for the TB code

30 posts in this topic

1. If AW tracks are the answer why isn’t the harness code flying ?

2. What advantage will AW tracks give when they favour lesser horses with high knee actions who typically like wet ground 

3. Does anyone think AW form will translate to Australia ?

4. Does anyone know the experts advising NZTR and who’re dealing with international AW track suppliers ( I’ve seen their names, I don’t know them and I know everyone worth knowing in NZ racing )

5. If AW tracks are the answer why is Foxton laying idle, and any other sand belt tracks for that matter.

6. How long should we wait for Alan Jackson to score a run, given that he’s occupied the crease for about 14 years and is still on zero

7. What does the Trainers Association actually do ?

8. Has anyone ever seen Neil Grimstone at the Saturday races ?

9. Why is NZTR run by old stale males who’ve achieved so little during their tenure ?

10. Why didn’t Messara tell the studs what they’re doing wrong given that he’s a breeding expert, and the horses our studs are breeding no longer compete on the global stage, well vey few do ?

11. If David Ellis is correct about all the “blue sky” ahead why did the Kiwis not buy at the RTR ?

12. If Trackside is doing their job why is Michael Guerin commenting on the TB code when he clearly knows about as much as you can learn in the Members Bar at Riccarton ?

13. Who the fuck recruits for Trackside and the NZRB anyway, and why aren’t racing people running the racing shows, for example Alysha Collett, and sports people running their code shows as rugby and cricket do. 

And why do those tipsters persist when anyone who listens to them would be long broke. Is there another industry that thinks giving really bad advice will grow your market or increase turnover ?

14. Why does Andrew Carston get so much Trackside time when he clearly can’t train very well. Is there a video going around that we don’t know about ?

15. Why does the RIU employ so many cops who think they’re toughies, like Grimstone and his mate Cruikshank. 

Do we even need staunch bullies ( they’re actually weak bastards deep down )  in this game given that we have so few villains ?

16. Will Winston actually do anything before the next election or is he just buying time ?

17. If Messara was getting good advice from real horsemen why did he propose selling the excellent track Avondale but keeping the swamp known as Counties ?

18. Why is the NZ racing media afraid to write the truth and ask the hard questions ? Is it because they’re afraid, impotent, on the payroll, or just incompetent ?

19. Why has the TAB not introduced or invented a single new gambling product in the last ten years, except for the hilarious version of triple trio 

20. And lastly, why can non licensees do whatever they want, breach any rules, fuck it & sniff it Bayliss, punt on it Trackside staff, break it, hurt people and horses with it, NZTR & Foskett, but they’re never made accountable, but if a jockey rides a bit tight, or a trainer forgets blinkers, it’s a capital crime punishable by death or worse. Why are licensees so weak that they allow themselves to be abused ?

 

There we go possums, just some rambling thoughts for your consideration.

 

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13 minutes ago, Fartoomuch said:

RE AW , have you seen how much they cost to maintain each season, i saw it a while back but thought , why would you bother. Better off having 2-4 dedicated winter tracks and pay owners float fees etc

Costs nothing to maintain black sand or sand belt tracks like Ruakaka, Foxton, Greymouth, anywhere from Port Waikato to Karioitahi, even the pumice tracks like Taupo or Te Teko......or peat like Kumara, they’re all easy to maintain and all very safe....it's the mud and clay based tracks that are dangerous and expensive to maintain.....but ask NZTR, they’d know shit from clay wouldn’t they ?

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11 minutes ago, poundforpound said:

Costs nothing to maintain black sand or sand belt tracks like Ruakaka, Foxton, Greymouth, anywhere from Port Waikato to Karioitahi, even the pumice tracks like Taupo or Te Teko......or peat like Kumara, they’re all easy to maintain and all very safe....it's the mud and clay based tracks that are dangerous and expensive to maintain.....but ask NZTR, they’d know shit from clay wouldn’t they ?

Agree with all those tracks for Winter racing and would include Oamaru also. If your really being honest, when was the last time anyone who posts on here had a bet on an AW track in Ozzie. I certainly never had and that's where most of my TB spend occurs

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3 minutes ago, Fartoomuch said:

Agree with all those tracks for Winter racing and would include Oamaru also. If your really being honest, when was the last time anyone who posts on here had a bet on an AW track in Ozzie. I certainly never had and that's where most of my TB spend occurs

I haven’t seen official data but I doubt AW tracks are popular with punters, although I suppose there’s an argument that certain horses actions suit AW tracks so form students might get a leg up there, and that presumably would translate to increased t/o

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3 minutes ago, poundforpound said:

I haven’t seen official data but I doubt AW tracks are popular with punters, although I suppose there’s an argument that certain horses actions suit AW tracks so form students might get a leg up there, and that presumably would translate to increased t/o

Given what i have seen in Victoria they are woeful in terms of T/O.

Im sure someone on the NZTR board will be arguing forcefully against this nonsense as the business case surely cant stack up despite what some of the bigwigs say.

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The key advantage of an all-weather is as a training and trial surface. And through 365 day use it is becomes self-funding.

Why should owners have to pay to go to Te Teko, Taupo and Ruakaka for a frigging trial????

And if it holds a few race meetings in June and July could it be any worse than the abomination we currently serve up as racing in that period?

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6 hours ago, poundforpound said:

Lets Give it a go because I'm up for some sport

 

1. If AW tracks are the answer why isn’t the harness code flying ? Because the racing on most of these "dirt looking and acting" tracks looks boring and is too predictable

2. What advantage will AW tracks give when they favour lesser horses with high knee actions who typically like wet ground?  They shouldn't be cancelling as many race meets  as they do on our poorly managed grass tracks

3. Does anyone think AW form will translate to Australia ? Be OK for racing on the Aussie AW tracks. More stakes money there as well

4. Does anyone know the experts advising NZTR and who’re dealing with international AW track suppliers ( I’ve seen their names, I don’t know them and I know everyone worth knowing in NZ racing ). Like everything a diverse group who don't have compelling credentials to be given the responsibility of making NZ racing great again.

5. If AW tracks are the answer why is Foxton laying idle, and any other sand belt tracks for that matter? Are the AW tracks going to be sand, dirt, synthetic dirt or strathyr? Shouldn't matter where they are based on what's naturally underfoot.

6. How long should we wait for Alan Jackson to score a run, given that he’s occupied the crease for about 14 years and is still on zero? He should leave. He does very little in propelling us confidently into the new Make Racing Great Again era.

7. What does the Trainers Association actually do ? They should have a better voice but it is the Owners Association that I would critisise the most. They have after all the most to lose.

8. Has anyone ever seen Neil Grimstone at the Saturday races ? No. 

9. Why is NZTR run by old stale males who’ve achieved so little during their tenure ? Because the nomination and election  process needs a complete overhaul.

10. Why didn’t Messara tell the studs what they’re doing wrong given that he’s a breeding expert, and the horses our studs are breeding no longer compete on the global stage, well very few do ? That would mean that he had to find forward thinking, progressive business people who told most of the people who run our industry to take a hike. Difficult to find

11. If David Ellis is correct about all the “blue sky” ahead why did the Kiwis not buy at the RTR ? NZ horses have an average reputation in Australia and a diminishing one elsewhere

12. If Trackside is doing their job why is Michael Guerin commenting on the TB code when he clearly knows about as much as you can learn in the Members Bar at Riccarton ? Just go an talk with Andy Kydd and you know why everything Trackside is failing

13. Who the fuck recruits for Trackside and the NZRB anyway, and why aren’t racing people running the racing shows, for example Alysha Collett, and sports people running their code shows as rugby and cricket do. As above in 12

And why do those tipsters persist when anyone who listens to them would be long broke. Is there another industry that thinks giving really bad advice will grow your market or increase turnover ?As above in 12

14. Why does Andrew Carston get so much Trackside time when he clearly can’t train very well. Is there a video going around that we don’t know about ? As above in 12

15. Why does the RIU employ so many cops who think they’re toughies, like Grimstone and his mate Cruikshank? Nazi complex and NZRB's idea of scaring the natives

Do we even need staunch bullies ( they’re actually weak bastards deep down )  in this game given that we have so few villains ? As in 15

16. Will Winston actually do anything before the next election or is he just buying time ? Yes he can

17. If Messara was getting good advice from real horsemen why did he propose selling the excellent track Avondale but keeping the swamp known as Counties ? His advice on this one and other tracks is slightly flawed and will be revised. Why is Cromwell being thrown away? 

18. Why is the NZ racing media afraid to write the truth and ask the hard questions ? Is it because they’re afraid, impotent, on the payroll, or just incompetent ? Everyone is paid by masters. Only one mob trying to shake the avocado tree.

19. Why has the TAB not introduced or invented a single new gambling product in the last ten years, except for the hilarious version of triple trio ? Because you have a policeman and a postman running the show. They don't know.

20. And lastly, why can non licensees do whatever they want, breach any rules, fuck it & sniff it Bayliss, punt on it Trackside staff, break it, hurt people and horses with it, NZTR & Foskett, but they’re never made accountable, but if a jockey rides a bit tight, or a trainer forgets blinkers, it’s a capital crime punishable by death or worse. Why are licensees so weak that they allow themselves to be abused ? Because they are masochists.  They are not intelligent enough to get properly organised. Used to be a rule that if you had anything to do with a stable or received inside information from stable representatives, then it was illegal to lay a horse with that info. What happened?

 

There we go possums, just some rambling thoughts for your consideration.

 

 

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28 minutes ago, Insider said:

Berri, I thought for a moment you were about to take on your old sparing partner, but there was nothing posted. 

Did you get stage fright?

The old fruit has patched his answers onto the end of my questions.

Nothing too conflicting though, we concur on many things 

 

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1. If AW tracks are the answer why isn’t the harness code flying ?  ---  Like us, too many traccks.

 2. What advantage will AW tracks give when they favour lesser horses with high knee actions who typically like wet ground  ---  Beserk answered this.

 3. Does anyone think AW form will translate to Australia ?  ---  Beserk answered this.

 4. Does anyone know the experts advising NZTR and who’re dealing with international AW track suppliers ( I’ve seen their names, I don’t know them and I know everyone worth knowing in NZ racing )  ---  Not suprised.

 5. If AW tracks are the answer why is Foxton laying idle, and any other sand belt tracks for that matter.  ---  Unless they have a prime Christmas holiday race date, provincial racing is dead and buried here. 

 6. How long should we wait for Alan Jackson to score a run, given that he’s occupied the crease for about 14 years and is still on zero.  ---  Agree, should have been shown the door after 3.  

 7. What does the Trainers Association actually do ?  ---  You being an ex trainer should know answer, but collectively they do have a lot of power !!!

 8. Has anyone ever seen Neil Grimstone at the Saturday races ?  ---  Who is Neil Grimstone ?

 9. Why is NZTR run by old stale males who’ve achieved so little during their tenure ?  ---  This is a major concern.

 10. Why didn’t Messara tell the studs what they’re doing wrong given that he’s a breeding expert, and the horses our studs are breeding no longer compete on the global stage, well very few do ?  ---  Disagree, the biggest bugbear here is retaining our land and keeping property developers at bay.

 11. If David Ellis is correct about all the “blue sky” ahead why did the Kiwis not buy at the RTR ?  ---  Ellis is a businessman, not a horseman.

 12. If Trackside is doing their job why is Michael Guerin commenting on the TB code when he clearly knows about as much as you can learn in the Members Bar at Riccarton ?   ---  Agree, Guerin was calling Frank Ritchie Wank Witchie recently.

 13. Who the fuck recruits for Trackside and the NZRB anyway, and why aren’t racing people running the racing shows, for example Alysha Collett, and sports people running their code shows as rugby and cricket do.  ---  Yes, this is the same crowd that let Jane Ivil depart to greener pastures.

 And why do those tipsters persist when anyone who listens to them would be long broke. Is there another industry that thinks giving really bad advice will grow your market or increase turnover ?  ---  Yes, but I can suffer Francesca Cumani and Jane Ivil.

 14. Why does Andrew Carston get so much Trackside time when he clearly can’t train very well. Is there a video going around that we don’t know about ?  ---  The horse maketh the man. 

 15. Why does the RIU employ so many cops who think they’re toughies, like Grimstone and his mate Cruikshank.  ---  And the piss poor South Island harness starter, Lamb, who also doubles as an RIU investigator.  

 Do we even need staunch bullies ( they’re actually weak bastards deep down )  in this game given that we have so few villains ?  ---  We need a racing Ombudsman.

 16. Will Winston actually do anything before the next election or is he just buying time ?  ---  Unlike his predecessors, Peters will act.

17. If Messara was getting good advice from real horsemen why did he propose selling the excellent track Avondale but keeping the swamp known as Counties ?  ---  Too many tracks.

 18. Why is the NZ racing media afraid to write the truth and ask the hard questions ? Is it because they’re afraid, impotent, on the payroll, or just incompetent ?   ---  Racing journalists are only interested in winners. 

 19. Why has the TAB not introduced or invented a single new gambling product in the last ten years, except for the hilarious version of triple trio  ---  NO competition.  

 20. And lastly, why can non licensees do whatever they want, breach any rules, fuck it & sniff it Bayliss, punt on it Trackside staff, break it, hurt people and horses with it, NZTR & Foskett, but they’re never made accountable, but if a jockey rides a bit tight, or a trainer forgets blinkers, it’s a capital crime punishable by death or worse. Why are licensees so weak that they allow themselves to be abused ?  ---  Agree totally, but collectively licensees do have a lot of power !!!

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6 hours ago, poundforpound said:

I haven’t seen official data but I doubt AW tracks are popular with punters, although I suppose there’s an argument that certain horses actions suit AW tracks so form students might get a leg up there, and that presumably would translate to increased t/o

Just look at Hong Kong....the AWT is poor cousin of the other 2 tracks....absolutely no glamour.

What people need to understand when your horse gets beaten 10 lengths on the AWT you aren't gunna keep lining up'

So what you end up with is your good trackers, winter horses and AWT horses....you will find the same boring horses lining up because they are competitive.  In HK they are mostly second graders and American bred(Dirt racing in US)

Turnovers on the AWT are well below turf.

AWT 's are a great way to downgrade racing further.

Different  if a Strathayr track of course.

 

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Don’t confuse AWT with Strathayr. The latter is a grass track. I’m assuming by AWT, P4P is referring to “Synthetic AWT’s?” If that’s the case, the Oz experience with AWT’s is mainly in Victoria ( eg, Pakenham and Geelong) where winter weather is crap. The only punters who bet on AWT are “mug punters” sitting in a bar with a pint in front of them or sitting at home with nothing better to do than punt whilst waiting for Gods doors or the gates of hell to open ( not sure which one has the 72 virgins?). The bigger punters will not touch AWT’s when punting. As far as trainers go, they would rarely race any good stock on them for fear of injury. Only have to look at Toowoomba, who put one in against the advice of legendary Toowoomba master trainer, JJ Atkins, and had to pull it up after the trainers boycotted it due to horses suffering so many injuries! The examples of tracks able to have safe racing after heavy rain are Moonee Valley and Shatin and we all know what surface they have. If NZ put one in each centre closest to the main horse populations are or, spent some dough on tracks where natural drainage is a bonus surely that solves a problem with winter racing? Foxton has the room, has soil like the great Melbourne sandbelt golf courses and is quickly accessible in reasonable time due to the surrounding flat terrain. Obviously, due to soil, Strathayr would need to be used in The Waikato. The South Island I’m not sure. So, my summary is Awapuni Race Club sells up and moved its operations to Foxton in a joint venture. Create a training and racing home, with stable’s in the centre ( go to Eagle Farm and have a look at the beautiful stable’s there). The Stable’s could be sold to trainers by way of shares, with a covenant that they must remain part of the Body Corp as Stable’s. This would give trainers are chance to have some Capital When retiring from training. Alternatively, lease the stable’s. Just a thought but I really think parts of NZ are not suited to racing in winter. Foxton overcomes that problem and is within 30mins drive to many towns. Most Melbournites spend that and more getting to the races.

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Largely agree there Trump.

Yes, we’d all love Strathayr at each major centre but given that NZTR is calling the shots I doubt you’ll see the right thing being done.

FYI the big new Waikato tricode Racing super centre model went to air yesterday.......and flipped at the first hurdle because the gypsies don’t want a bar of what NZTR is proposing......not like NZTR to completely fuck the new project up now is it :)   

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On 12/4/2018 at 4:34 PM, Fartoomuch said:

Given what i have seen in Victoria they are woeful in terms of T/O.

Im sure someone on the NZTR board will be arguing forcefully against this nonsense as the business case surely cant stack up despite what some of the bigwigs say.

What business case?

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8 hours ago, Trump said:

Don’t confuse AWT with Strathayr. The latter is a grass track. I’m assuming by AWT, P4P is referring to “Synthetic AWT’s?” If that’s the case, the Oz experience with AWT’s is mainly in Victoria ( eg, Pakenham and Geelong) where winter weather is crap. The only punters who bet on AWT are “mug punters” sitting in a bar with a pint in front of them or sitting at home with nothing better to do than punt whilst waiting for Gods doors or the gates of hell to open ( not sure which one has the 72 virgins?). The bigger punters will not touch AWT’s when punting. As far as trainers go, they would rarely race any good stock on them for fear of injury. Only have to look at Toowoomba, who put one in against the advice of legendary Toowoomba master trainer, JJ Atkins, and had to pull it up after the trainers boycotted it due to horses suffering so many injuries! The examples of tracks able to have safe racing after heavy rain are Moonee Valley and Shatin and we all know what surface they have. If NZ put one in each centre closest to the main horse populations are or, spent some dough on tracks where natural drainage is a bonus surely that solves a problem with winter racing? Foxton has the room, has soil like the great Melbourne sandbelt golf courses and is quickly accessible in reasonable time due to the surrounding flat terrain. Obviously, due to soil, Strathayr would need to be used in The Waikato. The South Island I’m not sure. So, my summary is Awapuni Race Club sells up and moved its operations to Foxton in a joint venture. Create a training and racing home, with stable’s in the centre ( go to Eagle Farm and have a look at the beautiful stable’s there). The Stable’s could be sold to trainers by way of shares, with a covenant that they must remain part of the Body Corp as Stable’s. This would give trainers are chance to have some Capital When retiring from training. Alternatively, lease the stable’s. Just a thought but I really think parts of NZ are not suited to racing in winter. Foxton overcomes that problem and is within 30mins drive to many towns. Most Melbournites spend that and more getting to the races.

The inner track at Shatin is called AWT but is in fact a dirt surface with sand, silt, clay and other organic elements. Training track mostly.

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Aware of that Ohakason, but the main racing is conducted on Strathayr. Regardless, the experience of “Synthetic” tracks in Oz is that the big punters don’t bet on them and trainers don’t like to use them to race their horses on.

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Re Point 16: If the Industry is going to get any help from WP, I doubt much would be revealed until an election is due. That way, WP could go to the Election with a big basket of goodies promising to implement during the next term. So nothing would have to be done for the next 5 or 6 years, assuming there’s no change in Govt. Change can only come with action from within the Industry itself, so who is leading the ” V’Landy” like charge from within?

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Should we be looking at straight tracks?  Of all the slips I can remember, I can only recall one that happened on a back straight at Matamata. The rest were all on a bend. Newmarket has a 2km straight track . We could still have our normal very well drained grass tracks but the risk of slipping would be reduced significantly. Anyone know the Newmarket or similar straight tracks and the pros and cons? A negative of course is more land would be needed but it would probably be cheaper than building and maintaining a synthetic track?

 

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