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15 hours ago, Virtual.Stipe said:

Where was it said that small trainers should run for ribbons?

Rules for Some and White Poodle were claiming that "greyhound racing was a family sport for FUN". And I was merely stating that "For Fun" races should be run for ribbons.

Whether you are a small or big trainer, Greyhound racing is a Professional Sport

Probably more correct in saying that for the large majority of trainers, racing is a lifestyle, not a money making machine 

You won't make alot of money but you will get by.

Calling racing a progressional industry is a joke though. And this goes for both sides of the tasman.

I've never been in a profession where the rule makers have conflicts of interest, the people enforcing the rules are a bunch of cowboys who can't read their own rules and only apply them when they feel like it and the jurers are enept. I can tell you if I broke a rule in my profession I work in, I'd lose my license to practise right away untill a hearing was done. If I acted unprofessional.  I'd be stood down immediately. If I threatened someone, I'd be fired and probably never get another job at all. Looking at the current state of racing, I'm glad I am not longer involved in the industry. However, it's sad to see an industry I love go to the dogs as they say

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16 hours ago, Flabbergasted said:

A topic that will no doubt cause plenty of debate and there are multiple angles it can be looked at. Now I am not taking any sides and just playing Devil's Advocate here so let's look at it.

It may have been originally a hobby sport but it has become more professional and some participants saw the opportunity to make a living from it and have succeeded in doing so quite well. They have broken no rules but it is questionable whether it is good for the long-term survival of the sport especially in a relatively small country like NZ.  There have probably been many others who have tried and failed too, although we never seem to hear about anybody crying about that. No-one ever gave a guarantee to anyone that they could make a living out of the sport. What you get out of it purely comes down to ambition, hard work and luck and possibly all three rolled into one.    

The larger kennels may now be breeding more and therefore becoming more dominant - good for them as they've outlayed the money and anyone can do the same. Downside is that there are less grass roots participants earning prizemoney so the likelihood is that some get squeezed out therefore the participant pool is reduced.  

Should GRNZ put a limit on how many pups a certain individual can breed per year. Again debateable and if they did could it maybe in breach one's right to private enetrprise and may even be considered a restriction of trade. Imagine if you bred a litter and got eight champions then decided to breed with them all. you might never get one again surely you should be allowed the opportunity to breed no matter what.       

White Poodle asks "Where are the others in the litters that wern't fortunate enough to have what it takes to make the  dollar train and their siblings that were injured during rearing . Stats show they havn't been rehomed as that part of the industry is just not able to achieve this. I would say at a guess a huge percentage of pups born don't get registered, I wonder if the  new look N.Z.G.R.A. is accounting for these  , after all you pay a fee to them at birth for them Don't you?"  

In answer to that and correct me if I'm wrong - All pups born are registered - When a litter of pups is born the litter must be registered within 10 working days. No-one can possibly know whether a pup is any good and do something untoward to it if it isn't at this stage. They are then ear-branded and micro-chipped at around 12 to 16 weeks of age. Again way too early to know of their ability. That's ludicrous to even think otherwise. 

I have to ask this though and I'll give you an example. I recently had a bitch whelp 8 pups although one was quite poorly and registered them immediately within a couple of days. After spending 8 sleepless nights and days with the bitch and pups trying to save the poorly one by bottle feeding it as well as putting it on it's mum's teat she perished s I'm left with seven. Surely that pup is not considered wastage. And whilst I bet one will come to some misfortune through pure bad luck before they even get to breaking in age. How is this pup going to be accounted for ? I have rarely never had a pup not break-in and the few that didn't i have always found a home for, even in the days before GAP began.       

 

You would find case law in NZ would beg to differ. Many industries have limits on what they can trade, do, or catch, especially in relation to animal welfare.

If a limit was put on the amount of Greyhounds breed, case law would favour the limitations in my opinion, especially when you start questioning how 1800-2500 dogs are bred and imported each year, and only 500 are rehomed on a good year

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1 hour ago, Rules For Some said:

You would find case law in NZ would beg to differ. Many industries have limits on what they can trade, do, or catch, especially in relation to animal welfare.

If a limit was put on the amount of Greyhounds breed, case law would favour the limitations in my opinion, especially when you start questioning how 1800-2500 dogs are bred and imported each year, and only 500 are rehomed on a good year

A quota system might work in terms of keeping the public onside but it would favor the bigger kennels.
Not sure where you get those figures but I have a feeling you're well wide of the mark

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2 hours ago, ridiculous said:

A quota system might work in terms of keeping the public onside but it would favor the bigger kennels.
Not sure where you get those figures but I have a feeling you're well wide of the mark

I don't agree that it would favour any kennel large or small. If a limit was set it would apply to all kennels across the board. Limits on breeding numbers and numbers raced could not be increased with a financial penalty as a deterrent. The current choice to go big is just that, personal choice. But that choice puts in jeopardy the longevity of the sport and the future of all its participants. We need to hold on to our membership and grow by encouraging new blood into the sport. Realistically who wants to enter an industry that is stacked against them from the onset? If the participant numbers continue to drop we risk closure within 10 years. 

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3 hours ago, ridiculous said:

A quota system might work in terms of keeping the public onside but it would favor the bigger kennels.
Not sure where you get those figures but I have a feeling you're well wide of the mark

I am unsure how many dogs are bred and imported each year. That was just a random estimate. I do know the official number of rehomed dogs sits around 500, give or take a 100. I could also imagine there would be another 100 or maybe even 200 unofficially rehomed

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1 hour ago, Emotive said:

I don't agree that it would favour any kennel large or small. If a limit was set it would apply to all kennels across the board. Limits on breeding numbers and numbers raced could not be increased with a financial penalty as a deterrent. The current choice to go big is just that, personal choice. But that choice puts in jeopardy the longevity of the sport and the future of all its participants. We need to hold on to our membership and grow by encouraging new blood into the sport. Realistically who wants to enter an industry that is stacked against them from the onset? If the participant numbers continue to drop we risk closure within 10 years. 

Realistically, anyone who wants to enter into an animal racing, sport industry needs to have quality animals. You're only as good a trainer as the animal you have to train.

Whether there's a quota or not, small or big Kennels with well bred, fast dogs will still be winniing the majority of races over small or big kennels with slow dogs! 

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5 minutes ago, Virtual.Stipe said:

Realistically, anyone who wants to enter into an animal racing, sport industry needs to have quality animals. You're only as good a trainer as the animal you have to train.

Whether there's a quota or not, small or big Kennels with well bred, fast dogs will still be winniing the majority of races over small or big kennels with slow dogs! 

You totally missed my point. My post wasn't about what trainers earn, it is about sustainability and public license.

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