John Clydesdale 229 Report post Posted January 27, 2011 Trentham tommorow paints a very confusing, perhaps conflicting picture about Handicapping. I am hoping someone can clarify some details for me. VT Summer Cup- 2400m - R94 race, topweight (R89) has 5 wins, has won $61k, carries 58kg CD Wgtn Cup - 2400m - open Handicap, topweight (R105) has 12 wins, has won $669k, carries 57kg Thorndon Mile - 1600m - open Handicap, topweight (R108) has 8 wins, has won $1403k, carries 58kg Douro Mile - 1600m - R94 race - topweight (R94) has 6 wins, has won $56k, carries 59kg This is totalling confusing to me as the horse with the least money won, carries the most weight?! Yes, he is rated at 94, compared to the Sumer Cup topweight, but then why should he carry more weight than the R108 and R105 horse. Can someone please explain or clarify how the handicapper works this out? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
punnaponning 0 Report post Posted January 27, 2011 Just check the conditions of the races hopefully that will clarify things for you Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Clydesdale 229 Report post Posted January 28, 2011 Just check the conditions of the races hopefully that will clarify things for you There are two open races, and two R94 races, so why the difference in weights given the ratings of the horses. The horses are all rated at different levels. But those ratings are based on their performances. So I cannot see why a R94 horse in a R94 - 2400m race, "In To Win" carries more weight than a horse rated R105, "Veloce Bella" in an Open Group 2 2400m race. It does not make any sense to me. The race conditions are clear, R94 and Group 2 Open, so what makes the difference? My understanding is that ratings are the determining factor for horses, is that not the case? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuffy 1 Report post Posted January 28, 2011 Good Luck John, trying to understand anything our handicapper does is confusing. Law unto himself! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
punnaponning 0 Report post Posted January 28, 2011 a 94 rater is clearly at the top of the a 94 ratings race whereas a 105 rater may or may not be top weight in open hcp. yes ratings do determine weights within each race. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph 5 Report post Posted January 28, 2011 weights and ratings in different races, it depends on what other horses in the races ratings are, how compressed the weights are etc etc etc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Clydesdale 229 Report post Posted January 28, 2011 weights and ratings in different races, it depends on what other horses in the races ratings are, how compressed the weights are etc etc etc Why is a R89 horse in a R94 race given 58kg.? Why is a R94 horse in a R94 race given 59k. Both are top weights agreed, so why is one weighted any different to the other. Surely the R89 in the R94 race should have a lesser weight than the 1kg difference noted. Or, why are they both not weighted the same as they are top weighted acceptors and everything gets weighted off them as topweights. Different race conditions, not that I am aware. Should they both be 58kg or 59kg as topweights? The weighting system is very opaque when there needs to be transparency. If you have a horse at R75 and you want to race in a R94 race, you should be able to ascertain what weight you are likely to get before the withdrawal time. Seems like a pretty straightforward question to me. If it were WFA, you would know exactly where you stand, so why shouldn't it be the same in handicapping? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy 4,076 Report post Posted January 28, 2011 Why is a R89 horse in a R94 race given 58kg.? Why is a R94 horse in a R94 race given 59k. Both are top weights agreed, so why is one weighted any different to the other. Surely the R89 in the R94 race should have a lesser weight than the 1kg difference noted. Or, why are they both not weighted the same as they are top weighted acceptors and everything gets weighted off them as topweights. Different race conditions, not that I am aware. Should they both be 58kg or 59kg as topweights? The weighting system is very opaque when there needs to be transparency. If you have a horse at R75 and you want to race in a R94 race, you should be able to ascertain what weight you are likely to get before the withdrawal time. Seems like a pretty straightforward question to me. If it were WFA, you would know exactly where you stand, so why shouldn't it be the same in handicapping? John, read this. It will explain all. Or most http://www.nzracing.co.nz/Downloads/Handicapping%20Policy09.pdf Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy 4,076 Report post Posted January 28, 2011 John, read this. It will explain all. Or most http://www.nzracing.co.nz/Downloads/Handicapping%20Policy09.pdf p.s. the table on page 8 will explain most of your questions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tackle 0 Report post Posted January 28, 2011 If you are very new to racing John its best not to delve too deep into these things. Basically handicapping is used to rate horses competing in the same race. There is no relevance in comparing weights for different horses in different races. Don't let it worry you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Clydesdale 229 Report post Posted January 28, 2011 p.s. the table on page 8 will explain most of your questions. I will take it home and have a read and get a grasp of how it all works. Cheers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
