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puha

J.Parkes suspension for excessive whip use

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See J.Parkes was suspended for excessive whip use on Irish Flame who managed to get up in the last stride and beat taviguard on Saturday. My question is was he suspended because of the look factor of using the whip to much or did he have an advantage over Taviguards rider which enabled him to win in the last bound bearing in mind it was on a nose decision ? I will be the first to say I had a multi finishing on Taviguard so feel abit peeved that he can get an 8 suspense but the horse in my view should of been relegated to second considering the margin . Very grey area I think . 

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42 minutes ago, puha said:

See J.Parkes was suspended for excessive whip use on Irish Flame who managed to get up in the last stride and beat taviguard on Saturday. My question is was he suspended because of the look factor of using the whip to much or did he have an advantage over Taviguards rider which enabled him to win in the last bound bearing in mind it was on a nose decision ? I will be the first to say I had a multi finishing on Taviguard so feel abit peeved that he can get an 8 suspense but the horse in my view should of been relegated to second considering the margin . Very grey area I think . 

I have stated many times before on this forum that even though he gets plenty of winning rides, his exuberant riding style gives the perception the horses are getting a flogging but he is rarely held to account. Maybe most if it is in the last 100 metres but I would not be keen to have him on one of mine.

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13 minutes ago, chevy86 said:

I have stated many times before on this forum that even though he gets plenty of winning rides, his exuberant riding style gives the perception the horses are getting a flogging but he is rarely held to account. Maybe most if it is in the last 100 metres but I would not be keen to have him on one of mine.

Your a harsh marker Chevy, good rider, good guy and value for money as a competent rider is 2nd to none!

The whip rule here in NZ along with a lot of other PC rules has gone overboard! 

Long live the good old days when we were not exposed to this PC crap!

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7 minutes ago, Chris Wood said:

Your a harsh marker Chevy, good rider, good guy and value for money as a competent rider is 2nd to none!

The whip rule here in NZ along with a lot of other PC rules has gone overboard! 

Long live the good old days when we were not exposed to this PC crap!

JMO Chris--as I say his "action" with the whip can look extreme to me, compared to someone like Matt Cameron who is always very busy without the flailing whip. I am not judging his character nor whether he is consciously flouting the rules, and I certainly do not dwell in the PC world.

 

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Iam not a softy but that Breeders Cup Classic  last week Soumillon on Thunder Snow  , imho well over the line , personally I'd rather lose some money on the punt than see the crap Soumillon pulled on Thunder Snow.Looked horrible and in his homeland he would have coped a big ban.That horse had given everything , worst I've seen for couple years.

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12 hours ago, puha said:

See J.Parkes was suspended for excessive whip use on Irish Flame who managed to get up in the last stride and beat taviguard on Saturday. My question is was he suspended because of the look factor of using the whip to much or did he have an advantage over Taviguards rider which enabled him to win in the last bound bearing in mind it was on a nose decision ? I will be the first to say I had a multi finishing on Taviguard so feel abit peeved that he can get an 8 suspense but the horse in my view should of been relegated to second considering the margin . Very grey area I think . 

Known Johnathan since he was a skinny little apprentice at Grant Searle's , always been tough to beat in a tight finish because he can get an extra neck or so outa horse . But i agree not a good look in today's world . I'm picking whips will be gone in next 10 years . The one's i don't like are the poor rides and the horse is well beaten because of the ride but the jock is hammering all the way up the straight , stick should be used on rider .

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Watching the races on TV I've noticed many a time when it looks like Johnathan has been giving the horse a few too many, but in the replays where they show the front on view I've taken particular notice of Johnathan and more often that not he is just waving the whip at the horse and not actually hitting it.

I'm not saying that is always the case but that has been my observation over a number of years with his riding style.

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To the best of my knowledge, when the Whip Rules were rejigged it was stated that a breach of the rule would not affect the placings. 

This is absolutely the case in harness racing where, incidentally, the drivers of the first two placegetters in Tuesday's Cup were both fined - $2500 and $1000 respectively - and the winning driver copped a 3-day "holiday" as well..

 

 

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1 hour ago, Jape said:

To the best of my knowledge, when the Whip Rules were rejigged it was stated that a breach of the rule would not affect the placings. 

This is absolutely the case in harness racing where, incidentally, the drivers of the first two placegetters in Tuesday's Cup were both fined - $2500 and $1000 respectively - and the winning driver copped a 3-day "holiday" as well..

 

 

Soon stop it in both codes , if rider/driver breaks rules horse automatically get disqualified , harsh i know but would soon bring everyone into line and if no one is breaking the whip rules we look much better in the eyes of the public . Chronic abusers would soon notice it in their pockets when people stop trusting them to win legally .

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Last race overnight at  Southwell (UK) . Hands and Heels apprentice handicap (Racing Excellence Initiative). It's the way of the future ,  it's moving and has done for years. South Africa trailing no whips in some races , Norway gone that way .Watched a race from Greyville when I got up for work overnight, very light whip use, looked stylish and good . It's where the line is the experts need to come up with.A tough one for sure.

 

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20 hours ago, Chris Wood said:

Your a harsh marker Chevy, good rider, good guy and value for money as a competent rider is 2nd to none!

The whip rule here in NZ along with a lot of other PC rules has gone overboard! 

Long live the good old days when we were not exposed to this PC crap!

Your not wrong there Chris.

I have won on a few that got into good company, that would still be in maidens

with these Pussy rules & Softcock whips.

Wonder if the owner/s of Irish Flame were so disgusted,

They refused the winning Cheque ??

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9 minutes ago, ngatimaru said:

Your not wrong there Chris.

I have won on a few that got into good company, that would still be in maidens

with these Pussy rules & Softcock whips.

Wonder if the owner/s of Irish Flame were so disgusted,

They refused the winning Cheque ??

Would of been no complaints for sure . My question is was the rule introduced to keep the PC brigade happy  and does breaking those rules give the horse an advantage over those that abide to the new ruling ?

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14 minutes ago, ngatimaru said:

Your not wrong there Chris.

I have won on a few that got into good company, that would still be in maidens

with these Pussy rules & Softcock whips.

Wonder if the owner/s of Irish Flame were so disgusted,

They refused the winning Cheque ??

What should the rules be ? Or no rules , be interested to hear an opinion of someone who's ridden .

What type whips should be used ? Get rid of aircushioned ? 

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Rightly or wrongly, there is a big stigma with whip use on any racecourse. 

I have introduced a few mates and family members (non-racing people) to the races (mainly the trots) over the last few years. My attempt to try and spread the good word on racing. Most if not all of the newbees were put off by it. And they are not the PC types, far from it. 

It's a big perception thing the whip use and I think it may be time to get rid of the whip use altogether. Aussie harness racing were looking at progressively banning the whip, by age group racing, one year at a time until it's 100% banned, but I think that plan fell over. 

One look at the top animals over the years, like Sunline, Black Caviar, Winx, Lazarus, Lyell Creek, Monbet, Christian Cullen, Courage Under Fire etc hardly ever had the stick turned on them more than a few times in any of their races. Didn't need it. 

Maybe carry a whip for safety reasons during a race, but ban the use during the race? 

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45 minutes ago, Rusty said:

Rightly or wrongly, there is a big stigma with whip use on any racecourse. 

I have introduced a few mates and family members (non-racing people) to the races (mainly the trots) over the last few years. My attempt to try and spread the good word on racing. Most if not all of the newbees were put off by it. And they are not the PC types, far from it. 

It's a big perception thing the whip use and I think it may be time to get rid of the whip use altogether. Aussie harness racing were looking at progressively banning the whip, by age group racing, one year at a time until it's 100% banned, but I think that plan fell over. 

One look at the top animals over the years, like Sunline, Black Caviar, Winx, Lazarus, Lyell Creek, Monbet, Christian Cullen, Courage Under Fire etc hardly ever had the stick turned on them more than a few times in any of their races. Didn't need it. 

Maybe carry a whip for safety reasons during a race, but ban the use during the race? 

Like I read somewhere if I give my dog a right good  crack with a whip in the street because it won't walk fast enough is that OK.  I personally think not so why anyone would think seven colours of shit getting beaten out of a horse in a race is PC rubbish is beyond me, the industry does want some of thesel lilly livered softies  tax dollar to prop it up does it not  ? 

In my experience tough  PTIs who encourage you with kinder motivation get more out of a tired body that the old rubbish  they going to beat crap out of you it you don't do it , it wears off after a while bit like 20 odd smacks on horses backside likely gets no more than first 5  .Work smarter , ride better , strive for excellence , look smart .Easy with ability,  hard work and good training.

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On ‎11‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 8:47 PM, Rusty said:

Rightly or wrongly, there is a big stigma with whip use on any racecourse. 

I have introduced a few mates and family members (non-racing people) to the races (mainly the trots) over the last few years. My attempt to try and spread the good word on racing. Most if not all of the newbees were put off by it. And they are not the PC types, far from it. 

It's a big perception thing the whip use and I think it may be time to get rid of the whip use altogether. Aussie harness racing were looking at progressively banning the whip, by age group racing, one year at a time until it's 100% banned, but I think that plan fell over. 

One look at the top animals over the years, like Sunline, Black Caviar, Winx, Lazarus, Lyell Creek, Monbet, Christian Cullen, Courage Under Fire etc hardly ever had the stick turned on them more than a few times in any of their races. Didn't need it. 

Maybe carry a whip for safety reasons during a race, but ban the use during the race? 

Hey Rusty,

What Safety reasons would they be to Carry a whip.   But not use it?

Signal to turn Right?? Left??

Love to hear your answer...:>)

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56 minutes ago, ngatimaru said:

Hey Rusty,

What Safety reasons would they be to Carry a whip.   But not use it?

Signal to turn Right?? Left??

Love to hear your answer...:>)

Ngatimaru, be interested to hear Rusty's answer , he seems up with the harness game , for gallops couple things about whip use and today's thinking as below,

BHA , hands and heels series states " whips to be carried but only used for safety and correction" . Need to be a bloody big strong horse to carry me so never ridden so I suppose the BHA and senior jockey instructor would know what that means  "safety and correction" but sure there must be something in it.

John Francome 7 times jumps jockey champion, rider of 1138 winners over jumps , won most big jumps races , someone who's a tough bugger as has probably been driven into the ground more than many and then ridden over by half ton horse flesh on few occasions states in print if he could change something about racing to improve it it would be to ban use of the whip.

 

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1 hour ago, ngatimaru said:

Hey Rusty,

What Safety reasons would they be to Carry a whip.   But not use it?

Signal to turn Right?? Left??

Love to hear your answer...:>)

Can't exactly pack any heat under your riding vest these days can ya. So you need a whip. 

RedRum hit it on the head. 

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2 minutes ago, Rusty said:

As in what Red Rum said was correct.

Hope he didn't actually physically hit anything on the head lol.

Can only hit certain point I think Rusty , head out I'd say , though have seen a few following horses get a fair crack across the nose when a jockey got bit whip happy.

Whip will be gone in few years imho.

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