Grey Way's race record

[timw 1]

Hi

I am an amateur historian/statistician researching the racing record of Grey Way (NZ) 1970 and I am hoping one of your contributors might be able to help as I have a few missing race details.  In short Grey Way may have started 164 times but I have only been able to track down 161 possible starts.  I am hoping one of your contributors may be able to assist

Grey Way is one of the few remaining New Zealand horses where I do not have complete information.  The racing record of Grey Way (unfinished) and other notable New Zealand horses can be viewed on the Australian website ‘racehorsetalk.com.au’ by clicking on the tab ‘Racing Talk’ and scrolling down to the tab ’Race Records of Champion Racehorses’.  Grey Way’s incomplete record is on the last page (circa page 74 under that tab). He has not been indexed yet (the index is one page 1). Additional comments about the sources checked appear with his record.

I do not have access to New Zealand Turf Registers (‘NZTR’) covering his whole career.  If I have omitted any starts I think the missing race starts were most likely towards the end of the 1977-78 racing year. Otherwise possibly 1977-78 or 1979-80 racing years.

The NZTR for 1975-76 shows the horse finishing equal third on 8 November 1975 however this is not reflected in the margins between the first four horses.  I am not sure if he actually finished third or fourth.  I do not have an ‘errata’ covering that NZTR.  Any clarification about that would also be appreciated.

Cheers

[gubellini 3,995]

timw in the 1979-80 season Grey Way raced 22 times winning four. In the 1980-81 season as a 10yo he ran six times as follows:

Ashburton 2/9/80 ran fourth in the Stewards Handicap 1200m. Acka Cowan rode. Finished behind Sharebroker, Gretna Green and Killjoy.

Ashburton 6/9/80 fourth in the DB Flying Handicap 1200m. Acka Cowan rode. Flying View, Timax and Schweppshire Lad the place getters.

Geraldine 22/9/80 Won the Derrick Gould Handicap 1200m. Acka Cowan rode. Sharebroker, Flying View, In The Clear placed.

Geraldine 11/10/80 Fifth in the Gordons Gin Handicap 1200m behind Sharebroker, Timax, Brutus and In The Clear.

Rangiora 27/10/80 First in the Black and White Whisky Sprint 1200m for Acka Cowan beating Gretna Green, Spy Force and In The Clear.

Riccarton 15/11/80 Sixth in the Stewards Handicap ridden by Acka Cowan 1200m. Killjoy, Scweppshire Lad and Giovanni the placegetters.

[uneasy 497]

I think you'll find it was Snooky Cowan who rode Grey Way not his father

[We're Doomed 4,855]

I was fortunate enough to see his 50th and 51st wins at Orari and Rangiora. I doubt we will see that again in NZ. Probably won't see racing at Orari and Rangiora again either.

[gubellini 3,995]

uneasy thanks you are correct. It was Snooky and not Acka!

[pole 53]

19 hours ago, gubellini said:

uneasy thanks you are correct. It was Snooky and not Acka!

Our racing has gone backwards since those days of good south island horses.

Powly,The Dimple,The Twinkle, Grey Way and Show Gate.

And many more,sorry I missed.

[rdytdy 5,341]

When Grey Way was racing the spread in weights was huge as the minimum in those days was around the 45kg mark.  Grey Way was consistently racing around  the 60kg+ giving away 15kgs in weight to rivals. In April 1979 a filly my late father raced, Ionian Sea, beat Grey Way by a neck in the Open Handicap at Riccarton carrying 46kgs whilst Grey Way carried 61.5kgs  

Grey Way's nemesis was Copper Belt who was able to give weight to him and beat him.

TimW If you want to look at Grey Way's race record it is on the NZracing website under Horses. Type is his name and search under Status "All" Then click on performance.

It shows that he had 162 starts for  51 wins , 27 2nds , 21 3rds and all 161 starts are shown there for him. 

 

 

[We're Doomed 4,855]

You wonder how he would have gone today with all of the well watered tracks. He used to like it firm.

[Baz (NZ) 1,722]

 

[Baz (NZ) 1,722]

 

[Baz (NZ) 1,722]

 

[Baz (NZ) 1,722]

 

[timw 1]

To: ‘rdytdy’

Thanks for the information about Grey Way’s race record on ‘nzracing’.

I assume Grey Way’s electronic race record was input from the relevant editions of the New Zealand Turf Register.  If so I have found a number of errors in the information copied. 

For example, while the 1972-73, 1973-74, 1974-75 and 1978-79 New Zealand Turf Registers list all starters, they do not list them in finishing order.  In those years the New Zealand Turf Register listed in finishing order all horses receiving prizemoney (generally first to fourth).  All the other starters were listed in weight carrying order (from highest to lowest) and where horses carried the same weight in alpahbetical order.  Taking Grey Way's race on 17 March 1973 as an example Grey Way did not earn prizemoney (paid down to fourth).  The other 17 starters were listed underneath the first four in weight carrying order.  Grey Way was listed 13th of the 21 starters as he was weighted 7.13 (the 12th named was weighted 8.2 and the 14th named was weighted 7.12).  The five listed 17th to 21st all carried the same weight and lowest weight of 7.7 so were listed in alphabetical order.  He could have finished anywhere between 5^th and 21^st.  The best that can be said of the detail provided by the NZTR is that Grey Way finished unplaced of 21.

The rules applied Grey Way’s starts on 20/10/1973, 3/11/1973, 8/12/1973, 19/01/1974, 16/02/1974, 1/01/1975, 2/01/1975, 28/10/1978, 15/11/1978, 20/01/1979, 17/03/1979, 24/03/1979, 7/04/1979 and 28/04/1979.  The same may apply to other races but I do not have that information.  As records were not kept electronically in those days I imagine someone was given the task of entering the data much later without sufficient instruction. 

I have information which suggests Grey Way ran unplaced on 13/11/1979 in the GeraldineRC Gordon's Gin Hcp.  This means Grey Way may have started 163 times not 162 according to the nzracing record.  As the New Zealand Hall of Fame has Grey Way starting 164 times there may be another start missing from the nzracing record. 

Other possible errors in the nzracing record include the following.  I think race date 6/02/1974 should be 4/02/1974. On 10/09/1974 there were 16 starters not 15, on 25/10/1974 there were 13 starters not 12 and on 27/10/1975 Grey Way finished 12^th of 15 not 13^th of 16.  On 13/03/1976 there were 14 starters not 13. 

Cheers

[We're Doomed 4,855]

Goodness. Impressive attention to detail. I hate to think what I might be like with so much time on my hands.

[We're Doomed 4,855]

What were those tracks that had 21 starters? Hopefully not Orari.

[Pam Robson 1,547]

Quite possibly....!

I recall many older riders [ all blokes of course ]  shaking their heads about the influx of 'sheilas'  -  not that,  to be fair,  they were against the girls in general...but it was considered that the girl apprentices were responsible for many of the interferences that occurred.

Wonder what those same old timers would say today? !

[timw 1]

To We’re Doomed

Re: ‘attention to detail’!

If an organization charged with the administration of racing can’t get the little things right then how much else does it get wrong.  Judging by some of the posts on this website it gets a lot wrong.  And once a high profile organization gets a reputation for sloppy work it’s pretty hard to shake it off. 

I have found the ‘nzracing’ website is one of the better ones for quality, quantity of information and ease of use so why stuff it up with sloppy work.  Some of the early stuff (late 1980s) on ‘racingvic’ now ‘racing.com’ was riddled with errors. ‘racingvic’ even had one notable horse having two starts in Queensland when it had never set foot in that state.  I hope they didn’t rely on that stuff for handicapping. 

Cheers

[tasman man 11 979]

Grey Way [60kg] beat Show Gate[63kg] in the 1976 Stewards by a nose.

He was lucky...very lucky......not to have been relegated because he ket moving out in the last 200m ,nearly putting Show Gate over the fence.

My neighbour and friend Gordon Thomson told me this but Gordon would never protest !

Over the next 10 weeks Show Gate beat the best mares at Te Aroha over 1600m ,ran a brilliant second in Avondale Cup [2200m] won the Dunedin Cup [2400m] under 60.5kg ,then the next day won the Timaru Cup [1600m] .

Leo thinks he is the only unbeaten jockey on the horse but forgets Nick Harnett won at Timaru at only ride.

Then Show Gate was 2nd in Wellington  Cup to very good stayer Good Lord ,prior to winning final race [2400m] Trentham Stakes.

Remarkable.

Re the protest which never happened ,early on Show Gate was relegated behind a horse called Uncle Felix over 1200m at Invercargill...a joke....Uncle Felix later on died in front of Riccarton Public Stand  during a steeplechase race .

[Midget 4,489]

TM, Without a doubt, the best horse i have seen,in fact, the only horse that bought a tear to my eye,when Reon said 100m to go she couldn,t win, but she kept coming and beat Guest Star and Sobeit IN THE CANTERBURY GOLD CUP, Tina Turner wrote that song for her, SIMPLY THE BEST.

[tasman man 11 979]

12 minutes ago, poundforpound said:

Thanks for the correction TM, but last time you corrected me on that point I thought you said Michael Craig was the other jock never beaten on her.

You're not as bad as Sheldon Martha though, he claimed on Trackside I’d been beaten on her in some dramatic circumstances.

I might add that although she was a marvellous racehorse I’ve ridden many who gave me a better feel, not many in NZ granted but a lot in the UK.

Your memory is short P4P.......the advantage of a short memory is one always has a clear conscience.

MCraig got caught out on a heavy track very early on...start 2 !

It seems like yesterday.

[Tudorlight 21]

On 11/23/2018 at 2:40 PM, tasman man 11 said:

Grey Way [60kg] beat Show Gate[63kg] in the 1976 Stewards by a nose.

He was lucky...very lucky......not to have been relegated because he ket moving out in the last 200m ,nearly putting Show Gate over the fence.

My neighbour and friend Gordon Thomson told me this but Gordon would never protest !

Over the next 10 weeks Show Gate beat the best mares at Te Aroha over 1600m ,ran a brilliant second in Avondale Cup [2200m] won the Dunedin Cup [2400m] under 60.5kg ,then the next day won the Timaru Cup [1600m] .

Leo thinks he is the only unbeaten jockey on the horse but forgets Nick Harnett won at Timaru at only ride.

Then Show Gate was 2nd in Wellington  Cup to very good stayer Good Lord ,prior to winning final race [2400m] Trentham Stakes.

Remarkable.

Re the protest which never happened ,early on Show Gate was relegated behind a horse called Uncle Felix over 1200m at Invercargill...a joke....Uncle Felix later on died in front of Riccarton Public Stand  during a steeplechase race .

 

[Tudorlight 21]

Hi, I have watched the replay of that race many times and still have a recording of it.

They were in the middle of the track and there was no interference.

Show Gate carried three kgs more so it was a huge effort but Grey Way was a fair winner.

He was an amazing horse. From memory, 15 track records and at one stage held the Australasian record for 1400m - which very much proves how good he was.

Grey Way was such a professional racehorse … he would jump, settle and then change gears when asked. 
 

It always bugged me that the connections put Maurice Campbell on him for some races, he didn’t need such an aggressive rider.

There will never be another horse in NZ that wins 51 races and only an elite few achieve a 30 per cent plus win rate. He was a trude champion.

[Chris Wood 1,576]

He came and stayed at TeRapa , Doug Holden accompanied him on that trip,, took my Grandma down to see him, he was her favourite.