rdytdy

Otaki Uh Oh!

37 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, puha said:

Think Scotch Thistle is onto something . Maybe the combination of too much watering and grass that was possibly to long was a major contributing factor . If so it’s human error again. Dont think galloping horses  having their heads held would of made a difference.No trials were held there and should of been . See Woodville trials are at Otaki this week . The horse has bolted i think.

OMG Who made the decision about the trials? Transferring them from woodville ?   Its pretty obvious by the way the track performed there root structure is non existent or if any just running along  the surface , they can run all the cutting machines they like over it to appease the idiots that sit in offices giving all the sport turf advise at a blown out consulting rate! And  seem to l;ack accountability . Any rain between now and then is going to make it absolutely treacherous, This is a recipe for disaster.

 

 

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2 hours ago, puha said:

Think Scotch Thistle is onto something . Maybe the combination of too much watering and grass that was possibly to long was a major contributing factor . If so it’s human error again. Dont think galloping horses  having their heads held would of made a difference.No trials were held there and should of been . See Woodville trials are at Otaki this week . The horse has bolted i think.

Agree, however they should have galloped at racespeed, hence the payment to the willing trainers, that's professionism at work, and Goodwin reckons they trialed on the track, I've got a nose bleed from researching, checking their statements, , they are the masters of bull dust, but only because they aren't held to account, no one is, so on and on it goes, where it stops nobody knows.

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On 10/22/2018 at 2:23 PM, La Zip said:

Agree, however they should have galloped at racespeed, hence the payment to the willing trainers, that's professionism at work, and Goodwin reckons they trialed on the track, I've got a nose bleed from researching, checking their statements, , they are the masters of bull dust, but only because they aren't held to account, no one is, so on and on it goes, where it stops nobody knows.

A touch of irony in your last line La Zip, from the Steve Miller Band song Abracadabra but I fear will need more than a magic spell to fix this one.

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This problem has become a real bugbere in the last few years of tracks becoming slippy and races abandoned.Its certainly a lot more prevalent now than in "the old days" and better men than me must find an answer.I worked at Awapuni For 4 years back when Ivan lord was the track manager.In those days our watering system was a heap of plastic hoses joined together with metal bands that had to be tightened and undone with a screwdiver.Its was painstaking and Ivan would be out in the summer after dark moving the hoses around the track.As a jockey I remember Awapuni as one of the best surfaces to ride on and I cant remember a day of problems until some brightspark decided that clover was no good on the surface and made the track slippery.I always thought that was crap and still do.we always had a beautiful cushion of grass and it was always kept reasonably short.It was only when they changed the grasses that they use today that problems started.Trentham was another example of a fantastic surface to ride on in the spring and summer.plenty of thick green clover that provided a great cushion and kept a bit of moisture in the ground.Then we used to get off at the barrier.Light a smoke,Until Wally MckewenTold me off. and walk round with lovely green grass up to our ankles.Admittedly in winter it was mud up to our ankles but didn't change the fact the track was safe.In the years that followed someone stuffed up big time.Got rid of all clover,that has a bloody good root system and holds moisture longer than the stuff they use now.Interesting someone mentioned on facebook that with watering the root system may not go as deep looking for water,and that could be a valid point but I always believed clover was a good surface and stable with a good root system.Could be wrong.

 

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59 minutes ago, lindsay carston said:

This problem has become a real bugbere in the last few years of tracks becoming slippy and races abandoned.Its certainly a lot more prevalent now than in "the old days" and better men than me must find an answer.I worked at Awapuni For 4 years back when Ivan lord was the track manager.In those days our watering system was a heap of plastic hoses joined together with metal bands that had to be tightened and undone with a screwdiver.Its was painstaking and Ivan would be out in the summer after dark moving the hoses around the track.As a jockey I remember Awapuni as one of the best surfaces to ride on and I cant remember a day of problems until some brightspark decided that clover was no good on the surface and made the track slippery.I always thought that was crap and still do.we always had a beautiful cushion of grass and it was always kept reasonably short.It was only when they changed the grasses that they use today that problems started.Trentham was another example of a fantastic surface to ride on in the spring and summer.plenty of thick green clover that provided a great cushion and kept a bit of moisture in the ground.Then we used to get off at the barrier.Light a smoke,Until Wally MckewenTold me off. and walk round with lovely green grass up to our ankles.Admittedly in winter it was mud up to our ankles but didn't change the fact the track was safe.In the years that followed someone stuffed up big time.Got rid of all clover,that has a bloody good root system and holds moisture longer than the stuff they use now.Interesting someone mentioned on facebook that with watering the root system may not go as deep looking for water,and that could be a valid point but I always believed clover was a good surface and stable with a good root system.Could be wrong.

 

Probably a good point Lindsay.

WHITE CLOVER

 

   White clover (Trifolium repens) is a perennial legume with a root habit which is very similar to that of red clover, although somewhat finer, at least, during the first year of its development. Plants grown at Lincoln had pronounced taproots. These reached depths of 2.5 feet by midsummer in both upland and lowland silt loam soil, although the tops were only 3 to 5 inches tall. The taproots were 2 to 2.5 millimeters thick, and the branching throughout was very similar to that of red clover.

   At the New York Experiment Station, the taproots of plants growing in stiff clay soil were found to branch about 2 inches below the surface, many roots extending 9 inches from the taproot. While the majority of the roots were within the surface 15 inches of soil, a few reached depths of 2 feet during the first year of growth. 14

   Mature plants possess long, deeply penetrating taproots from which originate many profusely rebranched laterals. Root tubercles occur throughout

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On 10/22/2018 at 2:12 PM, Chameleon said:

Wondering why the 30 October trials that were, in the first instance, due to take place at Foxton were moved to Woodville (now Otaki)?

Chameleon, I don't know this for certain but renovation of the stand at Foxton is in progress and I assume the move to Woodville was due to that meaning jockey rooms, showers and other critical amenities were temporarily not available. Why the subsequent move from Woodville to Otaki when the track at the latter venue is a disaster, I'm not sure. Be interesting how many turn up willing to run horses on that surface. Smells like another NZTR crash test dummy event to me in an effort to show that the hopeless is ok.

 

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10 hours ago, lindsay carston said:

This problem has become a real bugbere in the last few years of tracks becoming slippy and races abandoned.Its certainly a lot more prevalent now than in "the old days" and better men than me must find an answer.I worked at Awapuni For 4 years back when Ivan lord was the track manager.In those days our watering system was a heap of plastic hoses joined together with metal bands that had to be tightened and undone with a screwdiver.Its was painstaking and Ivan would be out in the summer after dark moving the hoses around the track.As a jockey I remember Awapuni as one of the best surfaces to ride on and I cant remember a day of problems until some brightspark decided that clover was no good on the surface and made the track slippery.I always thought that was crap and still do.we always had a beautiful cushion of grass and it was always kept reasonably short.It was only when they changed the grasses that they use today that problems started.Trentham was another example of a fantastic surface to ride on in the spring and summer.plenty of thick green clover that provided a great cushion and kept a bit of moisture in the ground.Then we used to get off at the barrier.Light a smoke,Until Wally MckewenTold me off. and walk round with lovely green grass up to our ankles.Admittedly in winter it was mud up to our ankles but didn't change the fact the track was safe.In the years that followed someone stuffed up big time.Got rid of all clover,that has a bloody good root system and holds moisture longer than the stuff they use now.Interesting someone mentioned on facebook that with watering the root system may not go as deep looking for water,and that could be a valid point but I always believed clover was a good surface and stable with a good root system.Could be wrong.

 

Agree with everything you have said Lindsay , the whole problem is about the root system , the irrigation causes the the roots to stay on the surface as a horizontal mass they don't go down at all in search of moisture . With the roots going horizontal along the top of the soil it forms a hard pan beneath them , this causing the same situation as a mat on a varnished floor !  You see it time and time again. I remember watching a rugby match where each scrum that went down they were peeling up the whole top layer of turf , I am sure they put the blame squarely with the turf experts at the time ," If its not Rooted its Rooted" was Murray Mexted's quote.  WE are in the same situation here taking advise from these shiny arsed  so called experts who sit in an office in Wellington or Auckland and charge an amazing fee to come up with all these ideas and different machinery and irrigation methods to make you believe they know what they are doing and deserve there exuberant charges.  Michael Pitman said in an interview a few  years back when asked what is the biggest problem for NZ racing ? He said "The poor condition of our tracks caused by irrigation".

Why would you risk running a full set of trials at otaki? this has got to be a recipe for disaster ! Any rain between now and then must make a shifty track even worse surely .

Maybe what they should do is get a good deep set plough and plough the whole track up, let it lay fallow for 6 weeks disc it up, plant it in some traditional local pasture grasses similar to what used to be used on racetracks before we started taking advise from shiny arse's, let the root system establish , while your waiting for that to happen  pack up all the irrigation gear and drop it off at the local scrap dealer . 

 

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1 hour ago, L.J.Shannon said:

Agree with everything you have said Lindsay , the whole problem is about the root system , the irrigation causes the the roots to stay on the surface as a horizontal mass they don't go down at all in search of moisture . With the roots going horizontal along the top of the soil it forms a hard pan beneath them , this causing the same situation as a mat on a varnished floor !  You see it time and time again. I remember watching a rugby match where each scrum that went down they were peeling up the whole top layer of turf , I am sure they put the blame squarely with the turf experts at the time ," If its not Rooted its Rooted" was Murray Mexted's quote.  WE are in the same situation here taking advise from these shiny arsed  so called experts who sit in an office in Wellington or Auckland and charge an amazing fee to come up with all these ideas and different machinery and irrigation methods to make you believe they know what they are doing and deserve there exuberant charges.  Michael Pitman said in an interview a few  years back when asked what is the biggest problem for NZ racing ? He said "The poor condition of our tracks caused by irrigation".

Why would you risk running a full set of trials at otaki? this has got to be a recipe for disaster ! Any rain between now and then must make a shifty track even worse surely .

Maybe what they should do is get a good deep set plough and plough the whole track up, let it lay fallow for 6 weeks disc it up, plant it in some traditional local pasture grasses similar to what used to be used on racetracks before we started taking advise from shiny arse's, let the root system establish , while your waiting for that to happen  pack up all the irrigation gear and drop it off at the local scrap dealer . 

 

Hell, yeah.

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8 hours ago, Pam Robson said:

Hell, yeah.

Deep set ploughing might work but I think the old fashioned chisel plough to 18" would work on most courses to break up the hardpan and not mix the clay with the top soil.

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