Kotare_Hunter

JCA Committee to hear Exclusion Enquiry

73 posts in this topic

8 hours ago, what a post said:

Its all subjective. I think they would have looked inept(as you put it) had they not taken the action they did 2 months ago.

Besides,why did it take 2 months for those charged to seek clarification..  If they were that confident then why the delay.

The RIU play the delay delay game - like insurance industry - hence the 2 months .

They ( those charged ) made submissions very early - within a couple of days/week - and RIU made a half pie weak call and gave everyone access to tracks but no driving except one driver - driver A . 

Then immediately given advise  High Court case would be filed and  RIU suggested JCA then Judge or other person away so another delay .

The RIU were not confident  ( the charged were 100% confident !) party and then more RIU delays plus the process delays .

I think the law profession were 100% confident RIU wrong and the judge at the bail hearing basically said so! The RIU knew it would go to the High Court and costs for them would grow and case was a loss. 

 The delays were RIU not making the correct legal and moral decision in the first place and not allowing everyone back when they first applied for it - weeks ago .

The drivers were very confident the suspension would be reversed .

RIU case weak as no evidence tabled .

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It is a disappointment to me that industry participants charged with stealing money from owners and punters are allowed back on the track, prior to charges being heard and conclusions drawn. I would have thought that the seriousness of the charges, in relation to the basic fundamentals of our industry, would have been taken more into consideration.

While I realise that the Police have the information, rather than the RIU, I would have thought that there would have been rules within harness racing, that allowed for the suspension of those charged with corrupt practice, until their innocence was proven.

Having those charged with race fixing, driving on race day, makes Harness Racing an amateurish laughing stock, and flushes our Integrity down the loo.

I would hope that the Police will offer further information to the original Judge, or to the JCA, to put a stop to this embarrassment to our industry.

It may be, however, that the Police's prime focus is now on convictions, rather than industry integrity, and perversely, owners and punters upset with developments, may more readily  come forward with further information on the accused, or others, to strengthen the Police case.

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7 minutes ago, CeeMeNow said:

It is a disappointment to me that industry participants charged with stealing money from owners and punters are allowed back on the track, prior to charges being heard and conclusions drawn.

Welcome aboard HG, its good to see the ouststanding daughter of Hilarious Way and New Guest has joined us. The last filly to win the NZ Derby.

CeeMeeNow must have been your stable name.

Love your nonsense.

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3 hours ago, Kotare_Hunter said:

Welcome aboard HG, its good to see the ouststanding daughter of Hilarious Way and New Guest has joined us. The last filly to win the NZ Derby.

CeeMeeNow must have been your stable name.

Love your nonsense.

Maybe your being a touch harsh Kotare re his initial post as a lot of people share his sentiments albeit that he has them guilty before the full case/defense is heard. Apart from that its not the worst post i have ever seen

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25 minutes ago, JJ Flash said:

Maybe your being a touch harsh Kotare re his initial post as a lot of people share his sentiments albeit that he has them guilty before the full case/defense is heard. Apart from that its not the worst post i have ever seen

I get what you are saying but he fair dinkum made those charges up. Nobody on stealing charges lol. Charged with corrupt practice, where on earth did that come from. Police prime focus now on convictions ummmmmmmmm why were the police involved initially.

 

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29 minutes ago, Kotare_Hunter said:

I get what you are saying but he fair dinkum made those charges up. Nobody on stealing charges lol. Charged with corrupt practice, where on earth did that come from. Police prime focus now on convictions ummmmmmmmm why were the police involved initially.

 

He has gone the early crow so to speak. Where's Long Owner to help out the new contributor:rcfe-happy-3:

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On ‎10‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 7:36 AM, LongOwner said:

My view has always been innocent until proven . Many on this site have been applying the reverse which is not justice.

The removal of anyone’s ability to earn living while still innocent / on remand has to have a weight of evidence to be fair and in line with our justice ethos .

The report says  the JCA , on the evidence produced today’s , found it was disproportionate ( unfair ) to suspend them and remove them the right to earn a living.

That is all I have ever said - they are innocent until proven therefore should be driving .

The other view , in my view incorrect , is they all guilty now and they should be locked up without any justice.

So I will say justice has been seen and heard whatever the outcome .

 

 

Innocent until proven guilty yes but should they be allowed to drive.If your bank manager took your funds would you still be happy for him to work until court case heard.

If your kids teacher was up on charges of a sexual or violent nature,would you still be happy for him to teach your kids.

I would think you would say no to both and yet you are happy foe alleged match fixers to carry on and ply their trade.

Would never happen in any other industry

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2 hours ago, richie said:

Innocent until proven guilty yes but should they be allowed to drive.If your bank manager took your funds would you still be happy for him to work until court case heard.

If your kids teacher was up on charges of a sexual or violent nature,would you still be happy for him to teach your kids.

I would think you would say no to both and yet you are happy foe alleged match fixers to carry on and ply their trade.

Would never happen in any other industry

All those examples you quote go on gardening leave on full pay.

The Appeal court judge - a lot more clever than us - said RIU action disprotionate to evidence - they were wrong as the court judge intermated weeks ago .

 

Mr X just won - yippee - great drive .

Are you jealous of these people skills and success ?

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2 minutes ago, LongOwner said:

All those examples you quote go on gardening leave on full pay.

The Appeal court judge - a lot more clever than us - said RIU action disprotionate to evidence - they were wrong as the court judge intermated weeks ago .

How can you compare a sexual assault with this ?

Mr X just won - yippee - great drive .

Are you jealous of these people skills and success ?

Not jealous at all in fact have great admiration for both.In fact I have always been a fan of both.Just stating the fact that I don't believe people that are alleged by police to have defrauded the public should be allowed to continue to have the chance to defraud until they have been proven innocent.But I talking as a punter,and talking to other punters Cheats on seats always seems to come up in conversation.Hence 2 of them that usually only bet on trots during cup week wont be doing so this year.

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Richie they are not cheats on seats - I feel sorry for you .

Open your eyes - 

They are all innocent until anything is proven and if you few friends don’t bet I think it will not be missed as a lot have not been - like me - since the ban as the racing / driving has been poor .

You are in the minority.

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41 minutes ago, LongOwner said:

Richie they are not cheats on seats - if you think NZPolice are next to godliness I feel sorry for you .

Open your eyes - recent history tells us they are habitual sexual assault perpetrators.

They are all innocent until anything is proven and if you few friends don’t bet I think it will not be missed as a lot have not been - like me - since the ban as the racing / driving has been poor .

You are in the minority.

Give it a rest, you clearly have issues with authority and the police etc, you were warned about this type of post previously and the above is once again defamatory

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1 hour ago, richie said:

Not jealous at all in fact have great admiration for both.In fact I have always been a fan of both.Just stating the fact that I don't believe people that are alleged by police to have defrauded the public should be allowed to continue to have the chance to defraud until they have been proven innocent.But I talking as a punter,and talking to other punters Cheats on seats always seems to come up in conversation.Hence 2 of them that usually only bet on trots during cup week wont be doing so this year.

Its not cheats on seats anymore its Crims on Rims in my local if you believe the game is crooked

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1 hour ago, LongOwner said:

Richie they are not cheats on seats - I feel sorry for you .

Open your eyes - 

They are all innocent until anything is proven and if you few friends don’t bet I think it will not be missed as a lot have not been - like me - since the ban as the racing / driving has been poor .

You are in the minority.

sorry I warned you, you cant just spout defamatory stuff...cheers...go elsewhere if you wish to do that.

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18 hours ago, scooby3051 said:

sorry I warned you, you cant just spout defamatory stuff...cheers...go elsewhere if you wish to do that.

Surely you can't possibly be considering reprimanding Long Owner.......he talks the most sense on this subject IMO.

Folk talk about fairness , honesty etc with integrity being the catch word as it is sooo strong !

IMO harness racing has never been so 'honest' as it has been in recent years.

Those who refer to the good old days , are dreamers !

As always just my opinion.

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45 minutes ago, tasman man 11 said:

Surely you can't possibly be considering reprimanding Long Owner.......he talks the most sense on this subject IMO.

Folk talk about fairness , honesty etc with integrity being the catch word as it is sooo strong !

IMO harness racing has never been so 'honest' as it has been in recent years.

Those who refer to the good old days , are dreamers !

As always just my opinion.

Clearly you missed part of his thread which has now been deleted,The man has issues with authorities and has already been warned once about making defamatory statements.Just my opinion but i think the owner has been more than lenient with Long Owner over some of his posts.

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Reality = a driver hits the dust sheet or sulky shafts with the whip......Perception = a driver hits the horse.

The regulatory divisions of HRNZ have ruled that guilt or innocence is irrelevant, irrespective of the facts,  a driver can be guilty (under certain circumstance) of an offence, because the public perception of their actions is deemed to be detrimental to the harness racing industry.

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7 minutes ago, CeeMeNow said:

Reality = a driver hits the dust sheet or sulky shafts with the whip......Perception = a driver hits the horse.

The regulatory divisions of HRNZ have ruled that guilt or innocence is irrelevant, irrespective of the facts,  a driver can be guilty (under certain circumstance) of an offence, because the public perception of their actions is deemed to be detrimental to the harness racing industry.

Just like Nat (before her little holiday) you too are batting 1.000

 

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On 10/29/2018 at 4:53 PM, richie said:

Innocent until proven guilty yes but should they be allowed to drive.If your bank manager took your funds would you still be happy for him to work until court case heard.

If your kids teacher was up on charges of a sexual or violent nature,would you still be happy for him to teach your kids.

I would think you would say no to both and yet you are happy foe alleged match fixers to carry on and ply their trade.

Would never happen in any other industry

No they would be suspended while the case was before the courts. But these drivers dont work for HRNZ nor the RIU so its a different situation

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2 hours ago, CeeMeNow said:

Reality = a driver hits the dust sheet or sulky shafts with the whip......Perception = a driver hits the horse.

The regulatory divisions of HRNZ have ruled that guilt or innocence is irrelevant, irrespective of the facts,  a driver can be guilty (under certain circumstance) of an offence, because the public perception of their actions is deemed to be detrimental to the harness racing industry.

Correct - have heard that line from the stipes before .....

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On ‎10‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 2:31 PM, Kotare_Hunter said:

I get what you are saying but he fair dinkum made those charges up. Nobody on stealing charges lol. Charged with corrupt practice, where on earth did that come from. Police prime focus now on convictions ummmmmmmmm why were the police involved initially.

 

Match Fixing is a criminal offence so why wouldn't the Police be involved? Are you suggesting that the 3 codes of the Racing Industry should deal with Criminal Activity/Offences independently from the Laws of New Zealand?

I am glad for the future of the Harness Racing Industry, that per the Agreement signed by all National Sporting Organisations, when Match Fixing became a Criminal Offence, that the Police are involved.

I note that the 26 year old with the most Match Fixing and Drug charges against is back driving at Addington tomorrow - Innocent until proven guilty. And for that reason, it gives me great confidence that the Police are involved, and have the powers to carry out surveillance to gather evidence before laying charges.

Based on the JCA decision and their summations, I would expect the RIU to revisit the driver exclusions, once the Police have disclosed the evidence they have. December 05 is going to be an important date, as I understand this is when the evidence is going to the disclosed in a review hearing.

 

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