GOM

What the

35 posts in this topic

I know there is a restriction on the amount of dogs able to be imported to race in NZ each month and a further restriction on the naughty ones but are there any checks and balances on the dogs that are being SENT to NZ to race and not imported.

      Looking at registrations over several months I see a lot of non descript Aussie dogs being sent to NZ by a  sydicate called punters HQ.  These dogs appear to be being distributed to various trainers around NZ and  the numbers made me wonder.

     On investigation it appears punters HQ is a LARGE  Australian syndicate buying second third and fourth tier dogs to send to NZ for the easy pickings. Is this the next wave of an Aussie invasion . Under the rules that we operate under ther is nothing illegal in this but from a common sense angle someone should be able to see what a tsunami of dogs following this path will create here

My bet would be that the majority will be short course dogs and most not suitable as breeding prospects so here we go making it even harder for the rank and file to survive , and ensuring NZ exists as the retirement option for the Aussie unwanted. Gap better get ready.

       I know we are part of a NZ/ Aus alliance but at this rate we may well be able to just remove the NZ  bit and be a branch of the Aus system. all we seem capable of is following any moves made in Melbourne in recent times.

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YES agree GOM. 

my understanding was a owner/trainer was limited to import 4 dogs per month . but now looking at it closely its appears the nzgra has given flexability  to HQ PUNTERS  that it  now allows 4 per trainer as long as it is a different exporter/importer & the dogs are going to different trainers. 

HQ punters are a big threat to the nz breeding industry not only that the class of dog is very poor mostly 300/400m country dogs which one can pick up for $2/3k per dog (short course cheapies)

the future of middle distance racing looks very bleak not a lone the breeding if the nzgra dont come down heavy on HQ Punters and block the flood gates quickly.

IMAGINE THE CASH FLOW BACK TO HQ PUNTERS EACH MONTH IN Victoria. they now have trainers in the northern, central & south islands strategically placed through out NZ!!

no problem with stakes staying in nz owners pockets.!!

come on nzgra who is making these stupid rules!! ??

we need racing experience on our boards and professional practicisioners in excutive positions at the nzgra who can make the right decsions not just copy paste decsions made by the greyhounds victoria & greyhounds n.s.w. and implement in to nz.

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Thought I would make some comments on this as your comments have no substance at all.

i train for Punters HQ and can tell you They do plenty of homework sorting dogs that will suit NZ racing 

i have 3x class 5 dogs and 2x class 4 dogs and a few other dogs that will get to be good class dogs as well

These are not what I would call tier 2,3 or 4 dogs, and believe me , these dogs are not 2-3k dogs

There are many owners sending a lot of dogs over Cawbournes or Wheeler dogs so this is nothing new to NZ racing

Also they had favourite for nz oaks and the railway  and well as winning group race ( Nancy cobain)

Steve Evans 

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See another 4 new ones on yesterdays registrations.

Good on you Steve we have to make a living somehow but if you think this is good for greyhound racing in NZ you are looking through rose coloured glasses.

I like the bit they do plenty of homework sorting dogs that will suit NZ racing. I guess the starting point is what ones are not suitable for Aus racing.

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10 hours ago, freightman said:

Thought I would make some comments on this as your comments have no substance at all.

i train for Punters HQ and can tell you They do plenty of homework sorting dogs that will suit NZ racing 

i have 3x class 5 dogs and 2x class 4 dogs and a few other dogs that will get to be good class dogs as well

These are not what I would call tier 2,3 or 4 dogs, and believe me , these dogs are not 2-3k dogs

There are many owners sending a lot of dogs over Cawbournes or Wheeler dogs so this is nothing new to NZ racing

Also they had favourite for nz oaks and the railway  and well as winning group race ( Nancy cobain)

Steve Evans 

Totally agree with you Steve, no substance at all. If we were to lose the 240 imports a year the quality of racing here will decrease dramatically. We would be lucky to have 3 middle distance races a meeting. C4 and C5 middle distance races already struggle numbers wise and the majority of these dogs are made up by imports. In Australia they have many people who specialise in rearing and breaking in and have the best facilities available. There are tracks dedicated to this purpose where as over here people have to juggle these things along with training a team of dogs. Aside from a small amount of breeders in nz most peoples properties wouldn’t even be up to scratch for breeding multiple litters a year. People shouldn’t be forced into breeding. Training is my occupation as breeding and rearing is that of the Wheelers and Stu. If everyone was to rely on sourcing dogs of other breeders and trainers in NZ we would have about 5 full time trainers left. 

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Well said 1234 and Freightman. The issue of imports has been an ongoing farce for many years.We have all had the opportunity to buy nice big properties and spend the money to breed and rear pups.Why have'nt people done it??? I haven't cos I chose to be a trainer and rear the odd litter as a hobby.People rave on about all the sprinters that have come to NZ and been bred out of,but no one has forced anyone to breed out of anything.People do it by choice.

Also Mike I don't see how it is any of your business what happens to  the stakemoney   that my owners win. I don't have any input into what you do with yours.

Racing is an international game and that is the way of the future,and anyone should be allowed to race a dog or horse wherever they choose to.

AC

 

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 Any more family members yet to comment?I doubt anyone will be surprised by your posts.

 It definitely isn't any of my business what happens to prizemoney your owners earn but it sort of is my business if it is at the detriment of our sport here.

Both you and Junior lament the lack of facilities for breeding, rearing and breaking in, yet you are part of the cause of why it exists. We don't need the facilities here and anyone having a go will probably fail because the Aussies are doing it for us. How many registrations are there for Aussie dogs? Each one of those negates the need for NZ's even trying.

  You quote how you  yourself changed tack from the bones of the industry to the fluffy bits bubbling at the top yet don't say why. Presumably too hard, easier and  more certain money to take the shortcuts. Look at the others who have followed suit. 

Imagine if you will that a deadly virus was discovered either here or in Aus and all stock movement between the two counties was forbidden. Do you think NZ greyhound racing would stop? If you can answer yes to this then what we are doing here is very wrong. If you answer no then there is no reason to continue our dependence. (Mind you one of your owners seems to find a way around such restrictions)

  What will bring this sport to a close is not the activist's unfair attention or the supposed inability of the board to administrate correctly but the lack of new people coming into the sport. To achieve that not so long ago  a young person on a modest income and a bit of common sense was able to get established and buy a local dog and they were away. Now unless you have enough to source an import or have a family member with the right contacts they are immediately kicking shit uphill.

      

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Look Albert, if you take that to it's logical conclusion where did all the Aussie dogs come from Ireland and England or more recently America.

The movement of animals between countries is as you say nothing new or bad. The exception to that in Greyhounds was frozen semen which quickly diluted the world gene pool.

However the breeding side of it is different to the flood of imports into this country and many many trainers changing from rearing and racing to depending on imports. This stifles us ever having a robust sustainable industry.

I tried your theory on Matanuska this morning and greeted him with how're you going Ocker . he turned his back on me in disgust and walked away. Mind you he is getting to be a bit of a crotchety old bugger in his old age. Bit like me.

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13 hours ago, GOM said:

 Any more family members yet to comment?I doubt anyone will be surprised by your posts.

 It definitely isn't any of my business what happens to prizemoney your owners earn but it sort of is my business if it is at the detriment of our sport here.

Both you and Junior lament the lack of facilities for breeding, rearing and breaking in, yet you are part of the cause of why it exists. We don't need the facilities here and anyone having a go will probably fail because the Aussies are doing it for us. How many registrations are there for Aussie dogs? Each one of those negates the need for NZ's even trying.

  You quote how you  yourself changed tack from the bones of the industry to the fluffy bits bubbling at the top yet don't say why. Presumably too hard, easier and  more certain money to take the shortcuts. Look at the others who have followed suit. 

Imagine if you will that a deadly virus was discovered either here or in Aus and all stock movement between the two counties was forbidden. Do you think NZ greyhound racing would stop? If you can answer yes to this then what we are doing here is very wrong. If you answer no then there is no reason to continue our dependence. (Mind you one of your owners seems to find a way around such restrictions)

  What will bring this sport to a close is not the activist's unfair attention or the supposed inability of the board to administrate correctly but the lack of new people coming into the sport. To achieve that not so long ago  a young person on a modest income and a bit of common sense was able to get established and buy a local dog and they were away. Now unless you have enough to source an import or have a family member with the right contacts they are immediately kicking shit uphill.

      

Will greyhound racing stop if no imports come in NO  it won’t . People are showing to much tunnel vision and this is why we have a problem. I’ve brought over imports and have litters on the ground so I think I can see both sides of the fence. What is easier, bringing in a import for sure. What is more cost effective bring in an import a ready made winner. Now we have a problem and we always will with gap they are never going to be able to re home all the dogs born or imported in nz. So what do we do ? They have already put costs up to bred a litter they have put restrictions on breeding. But you can bring in 240 imports a year . With the cost of breeding and the restrictions in place that has already cut gap numbers down , has importing 240 dogs a year cut gap numbers down ?  Ok so you say no imports no c5 520 race what a lot of rubbish with out the imports a 30.70 dog around Auckland will make top grade. People will still bet on them. The wastage of these nz bred dogs that can’t break 31 or 18s will be able to race earn a be Mary. The cream will rise to the top. You will be able to get more people into the industry.i could go on but like I say people have tunnel vision and you won’t change there minds 

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Don't agree there, I can think of a lot that have abandoned the home grown for imports and what this thread was about was the amount of dogs that are not imported as much as sent in numbers from one syndicate which seems to have realized what an easy target we are. And we save them the trouble of retirement as well

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21 minutes ago, GOM said:

Don't agree there, I can think of a lot that have abandoned the home grown for imports and what this thread was about was the amount of dogs that are not imported as much as sent in numbers from one syndicate which seems to have realized what an easy target we are. And we save them the trouble of retirement as well

pretty simple all imports must return home if overseas owned

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3 hours ago, I know said:

Will greyhound racing stop if no imports come in NO  it won’t . People are showing to much tunnel vision and this is why we have a problem. I’ve brought over imports and have litters on the ground so I think I can see both sides of the fence. What is easier, bringing in a import for sure. What is more cost effective bring in an import a ready made winner. Now we have a problem and we always will with gap they are never going to be able to re home all the dogs born or imported in nz. So what do we do ? They have already put costs up to bred a litter they have put restrictions on breeding. But you can bring in 240 imports a year . With the cost of breeding and the restrictions in place that has already cut gap numbers down , has importing 240 dogs a year cut gap numbers down ?  Ok so you say no imports no c5 520 race what a lot of rubbish with out the imports a 30.70 dog around Auckland will make top grade. People will still bet on them. The wastage of these nz bred dogs that can’t break 31 or 18s will be able to race earn a be Mary. The cream will rise to the top. You will be able to get more people into the industry.i could go on but like I say people have tunnel vision and you won’t change there minds 

3 hours ago, I know said:

To answer your question simply regarding gap importing 20 dogs from Australia requires 20 dogs to be rehomed at some stage. Breeding to achieve 20 race dogs would require you to breed 25-30 dogs as obviously not all pups make it to the track. therefore more to rehome. Unfortunately those breeding stats may even be worse in some cases. I think the NZGRA should have each breeders yearly statistics on this available for license holders to view. There is no difference from trainers being supplied dogs from owners and breeders based in Australia than the likes of Robin Wales and Cole sending race dogs to trainers around the regions. As I said in previous post people can choose to train and not breed and can source their dogs from where they like if you guys have a problem with it why don’t you start up a breeding facility and help supply trainers nationwide?

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59 minutes ago, 1234 said:
4 hours ago, I know said:

To answer your question simply regarding gap importing 20 dogs from Australia requires 20 dogs to be rehomed at some stage. Breeding to achieve 20 race dogs would require you to breed 25-30 dogs as obviously not all pups make it to the track. therefore more to rehome. Unfortunately those breeding stats may even be worse in some cases. I think the NZGRA should have each breeders yearly statistics on this available for license holders to view. There is no difference from trainers being supplied dogs from owners and breeders based in Australia than the likes of Robin Wales and Cole sending race dogs to trainers around the regions. As I said in previous post people can choose to train and not breed and can source their dogs from where they like if you guys have a problem with it why don’t you start up a breeding facility and help supply trainers nationwide?

so what your saying without the imports there wouldnt be enough dogs to race

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5 hours ago, I know said:

Will greyhound racing stop if no imports come in NO  it won’t . People are showing to much tunnel vision and this is why we have a problem. I’ve brought over imports and have litters on the ground so I think I can see both sides of the fence. What is easier, bringing in a import for sure. What is more cost effective bring in an import a ready made winner. Now we have a problem and we always will with gap they are never going to be able to re home all the dogs born or imported in nz. So what do we do ? They have already put costs up to bred a litter they have put restrictions on breeding. But you can bring in 240 imports a year . With the cost of breeding and the restrictions in place that has already cut gap numbers down , has importing 240 dogs a year cut gap numbers down ?  Ok so you say no imports no c5 520 race what a lot of rubbish with out the imports a 30.70 dog around Auckland will make top grade. People will still bet on them. The wastage of these nz bred dogs that can’t break 31 or 18s will be able to race earn a be Mary. The cream will rise to the top. You will be able to get more people into the industry.i could go on but like I say people have tunnel vision and you won’t change there minds 

i know  the 240 imports going into gap is more likely 480 every year as they race for  up to  2 yearsplus

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Mike its quite simple really.Its a choice what people want to do.Breed, rear, break in, train, own, punt and the list goes on.You or me or anyone else does not have the right to tell anyone where they can get a greyhound from.Greyhound racing has been around for many years and had ample opportunity to grow long before imports came in.Matt and I are in no way the reason for the lack(which I don't think there is a lack of) of breeding.Ask Dave Fahey how hard it is to buy a good dog here in NZ. I don't have to because I already knew 25 years ago and that was the main reason I started purchasing dogs from Ozzie.

There is no argument against a person wanting to race  a greyhound in NZ that just happens to be born in Ozzie.

And if you are worried about GAP and other re homing facilities being over run with dogs,tell me how come you are not asking why one breeder in the CD is allowed to breed more dogs than the quota for all of NZ for Ozzie imports.

If the sport fails it will most likely be because of the clubs giving away all the power they had to people that come and go in our sport and don.t really give a damn about you, me or anyone else in this industry.To them its just a job,to us its life!

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1234 you make a good point with all the NZ dogs being shifted to other trainers because they are not up to speed (ha)

That is frightening when you think about it. Probably over half of the dogs racing in NZ are other peoples castoffs. 

It's a ballroom, the $500 can be payment for the privilege of racing here or whatever as long as they go back. It should definitely be a charge to the importer or in some cases exporter from Aus. The $500 charge at present is a fraction of the actual cost of GAP. Think about it, cost to NZ industry and saving for Aus industry. Maybe Aus could also put another levy on all pups born there that is forwarded to NZ when the pup is exported here

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1 hour ago, legs&lashes said:

Mike its quite simple really.Its a choice what people want to do.Breed, rear, break in, train, own, punt and the list goes on.You or me or anyone else does not have the right to tell anyone where they can get a greyhound from.Greyhound racing has been around for many years and had ample opportunity to grow long before imports came in.Matt and I are in no way the reason for the lack(which I don't think there is a lack of) of breeding.Ask Dave Fahey how hard it is to buy a good dog here in NZ. I don't have to because I already knew 25 years ago and that was the main reason I started purchasing dogs from Ozzie.

There is no argument against a person wanting to race  a greyhound in NZ that just happens to be born in Ozzie.

And if you are worried about GAP and other re homing facilities being over run with dogs,tell me how come you are not asking why one breeder in the CD is allowed to breed more dogs than the quota for all of NZ for Ozzie imports.

If the sport fails it will most likely be because of the clubs giving away all the power they had to people that come and go in our sport and don.t really give a damn about you, me or anyone else in this industry.To them its just a job,to us its life!

BE INTERESTING TO KNOW HOW MANY DOGS YOU HAVE ACTUALLY PURCHASED IN THE LAST 5 YEARS

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Good debate fella's and fellarettes,  Good points for and against.  Just to finish on my part I want to make clear that I have trouble with the system  not the people. There are obviously many young trainers doing a great job with imports and good on them. My argument is they shouldn't have to

Time for another sabbatical

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I race cast-offs because the risks involved in breeding and importing are too great for me. I have no issues with imports or those who choose to breed locally except to say the combined numbers need to be sustainable. The argument around rehoming of imports in my view is invalid when you look at local breeding numbers without the rose-tinted glasses on. Large-scale breeders here need to take responsibility for what they breed. There actually is no hope of rehoming 10 -12 litters at their retirement, and present rehoming figures support that statement. Cast-offs are cast-offs regardless of country of origin. If you are going to argue the toss then get the stats and look at them with a critical eye.

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