Nats Back

[Lee270744 684]

All drivers should be wired up from acceptance until after the last race just to make sure they are not fixing races.

[Kotare_Hunter 748]

2 hours ago, Lee270744 said:

All drivers should be wired up from acceptance until after the last race just to make sure they are not fixing races.

Yes its does seems unfair only some were being monitored.

[Stables 577]

I wonder how it is that Natalie Rassmussen can be allowed back to drive on a premier night and leading drivers such as Blair Orange and John Dunn were not. Smells like somebody has undue influence to me

[Fartoomuch 1,376]

2 minutes ago, Stables said:

I wonder how it is that Natalie Rassmussen can be allowed back to drive on a premier night and leading drivers such as Blair Orange and John Dunn were not. Smells like somebody has undue influence to me

Not at all Stables, She has been charged with a non racing  crime, the other 2 not so. The other 2 will be back soon enough given legal arguements have already begun about their restrictions. ts up to the courts to decide their fate

[Stables 577]

Blair Orange and John Dunn are restricted from participating in their legal right to earn a living and that is by driving horses. How is it fair when they have not been found guilty of any charge

[Kotare_Hunter 748]

47 minutes ago, Stables said:

I wonder how it is that Natalie Rassmussen can be allowed back to drive on a premier night and leading drivers such as Blair Orange and John Dunn were not. Smells like somebody has undue influence to me

I wonder how on earth she was excluded in the first place.

http://www.riu.org.nz/announcements/mediareleaseoperationinca-wednesday5september2018

Media Release Operation Inca - Wednesday 5 September 2018

posted Sep 4, 2018, 7:13 PM by Karin Attwood   [ updated Sep 4, 2018, 7:13 PM ]

The Police and Racing Integrity Unit are investigating Race Fixing in Harness Racing.    As a result of the investigation to date the Police have arrested a number of persons and charged them with race fixing.    In view of the serious nature of the charges the Police have laid the Racing Integrity Unit (RIU) has taken action under the Rules of Harness Racing to exclude, all those charged by the Police from entering a race course to attend race meetings, workouts and trials.   The RIU has also charged those concerned with Serious Racing Offences, Rule 1001 (1) (v) (i) of the Rules of Harness Racing.      The RIU can be contacted by the following means    • 0800RIU123    • integrity@riu.org.nz    • 09 529 7219       As the matter is now before the courts no further comment can be made.

[Stables 577]

So what, this announcement does not explain how you can stop a person pursuing their legal right to work, when they have not been convicted of any crime, Natalie Rassmussen's charges are as serious as the charges laid against any of the others in this sorry saga. I do not believe any body will be found guilty of race fixing, but I do believe there will be people found guilty on the drugs charges. The maximum penalty for the possession of class B drugs for supply is 14 years

[Kotare_Hunter 748]

8 minutes ago, Stables said:

So what, this announcement does not explain how you can stop a person pursuing their legal right to work, when they have not been convicted of any crime, Natalie Rassmussen's charges are as serious as the charges laid against any of the others in this sorry saga. I do not believe any body will be found guilty of race fixing, but I do believe there will be people found guilty on the drugs charges. The maximum penalty for the possession of class B drugs for supply is 14 years

What is the significance of this sentence in what you have raised so far ?

[Stables 577]

Natalie Rassmussen has been charged with possession of a class B drug for supplu, namely Extacy

[ShiftingGround 8]

And incorrect. Possession and Supply are very different sentences.  From Community Law office.

Possession - 

The maximum penalty for possession or use of a Class B drug – like speed (amphetamine), hash (cannabis resin), hash oil (cannabis oil), Ecstasy (MDMA), or pseudoephedrine (used to make P) – is three months’ jail or a maximum fine of $500, or both. (This penalty is the same as for cannabis and other Class C drugs.)

However, if it’s only your first drug offence, you’ll usually just get a fine for possession or use of Class B drugs.

Supply however is -

The maximum penalty for dealing in speed, hash or other Class B drugs is 14 years’ jail.

If you’ve got more than a certain amount of the particular drug in your possession, the law assumes you’re a dealer, and it’s up to you to prove that you’re not a dealer. 

The threshold is;

Ecstasy (MDMA) – 5 grams, or 100 flakes, tablets or capsules

Only in special cases will you get less than jail or home detention. But a “suspended” jail sentence may be justified if there’s no commercial element and the quantities are small (here you’re released but if you offend again within the next 12 months you have to come back to court again to be sentenced both for the original offence and the new offence). And in special cases there might be a sentence aimed at breaking addiction by courses of treatment.

Given both current society & government discussion on the 'war against drugs' any sentencing is likely to be at the lower rather than maximum level as is often represented here.

[Stables 577]

She has not been charged with just possession she has been charged with possession for supply. Neither you or I Know the quantities she was found with so we can't guess what the penalty will  be if she's found guilty but as I say the maximum penalty is 14 years

[Fartoomuch 1,376]

44 minutes ago, Stables said:

She has not been charged with just possession she has been charged with possession for supply. Neither you or I Know the quantities she was found with so we can't guess what the penalty will  be if she's found guilty but as I say the maximum penalty is 14 years

So in your learned opinion what should the Police,HRNZ  and RIU do , just let them carry on like before.

[Kotare_Hunter 748]

1 hour ago, Stables said:

Natalie Rassmussen has been charged with possession of a class B drug for supplu, namely Extacy

This is not the current situation.

[Stables 577]

Yes as of now they are not guilty of anything. If in the end if any of them are found guilty, which I doubt then they should have the book thrown at them including being banned from the track for a minimum of 5 years for bringing Harness Racing into disrepute

[Fartoomuch 1,376]

1 hour ago, Stables said:

Yes as of now they are not guilty of anything. If in the end if any of them are found guilty, which I doubt then they should have the book thrown at them including being banned from the track for a minimum of 5 years for bringing Harness Racing into disrepute

First of all , welcome back, its been over 4 years since your last post on here which was about Southland racing from memory

You obviously have inside info if as you say you doubt any of them will be found guilty.. Care to share with us all what that information is. And yes , everyone is innocent until proven otherwise but you might want to look at the HRNZ licensing rules as well before you throw too much PC stuff around re those those charged and not allowed to ply their trade.

[Stables 577]

1 minute ago, Fartoomuch said:

You obviously have inside info if as you say you doubt any of them will be found guilty.. Care to share with us all what that information is. We are all waiting.

Race fixing is very hard to prove especially in a court of law under the jurisdiction of a jury. Many of the charges will be laughable when you look at the evidence. I will  be surprised if the Crown Prosecutor even decides to proceed with some of the cases

[Kotare_Hunter 748]

2 minutes ago, Stables said:

under the jurisdiction of a jury.

Say what ?

[Spikecity 749]

2 minutes ago, Stables said:

Race fixing is very hard to prove especially in a court of law under the jurisdiction of a jury. Many of the charges will be laughable when you look at the evidence. I will  be surprised if the Crown Prosecutor even decides to proceed with some of the cases

Oh so you have seen the evidence.

The Blenheim race and if supported by phone messages etc will find 4 of them guilty for sure.

[Fartoomuch 1,376]

1 minute ago, Stables said:

Race fixing is very hard to prove especially in a court of law under the jurisdiction of a jury. Many of the charges will be laughable when you look at the evidence. I will  be surprised if the Crown Prosecutor even decides to proceed with some of the cases

Again , what evidence are you talking about.The fact that they have been arrested and appeared in court  suggests that the CP was ok with the charges being laid. He would have to be convinced a case was there to answer to by the  NOCG in the first place.

I might agree to a point that some charges might not proceed but only on a plea bargain basis.

[Kotare_Hunter 748]

1 minute ago, Fartoomuch said:

Again , what evidence are you talking about.The fact that they have been arrested and appeared in court  suggests that the CP was ok with the charges being laid. He would have to be convinced a case was there to answer to by the  NOCG in the first place.

I might agree to a point that some charges might not proceed but only on a plea bargain basis.

I am pretty sure the CP won't be involved yet.

[Fartoomuch 1,376]

3 minutes ago, Kotare_Hunter said:

I am pretty sure the CP won't be involved yet.

Im not so sure about that , CPS would be first port of call at least.

[Kotare_Hunter 748]

Usually starts with Police Prosecutor.

[Newmarket RC 209]

5 minutes ago, Kotare_Hunter said:

Usually starts with Police Prosecutor.

Doesnt it depend on the seriousness of the crimes who makes that call. Interesting discussion nonetheless

[Taku Umanga 194]

On 10/7/2018 at 10:51 AM, Stables said:

So what, this announcement does not explain how you can stop a person pursuing their legal right to work, when they have not been convicted of any crime, Natalie Rassmussen's charges are as serious as the charges laid against any of the others in this sorry saga. I do not believe any body will be found guilty of race fixing, but I do believe there will be people found guilty on the drugs charges. The maximum penalty for the possession of class B drugs for supply is 14 years

Driving is not their right - it is the privilege given when granted a licence.  Read section 34 of the Racing Act 2003 as to how they can be prevented from doing so.

[JJ Flash 2,136]

1 hour ago, Taku Umanga said:

Driving is not their right - it is the privilege given when granted a licence.  Read section 34 of the Racing Act 2003 as to how they can be prevented from doing so.

Its something that many have struggled with in this whole issue. Its sadly a case of who comes first the chicken or the egg in terms of those accused versus the greater good of the game